The God Illusion?

[ecojeanne]

I can't respect someone who believes in Santa Claus. I don't see the difference between believing in Santa Claus or a god. Actually, that's not true. I find it much more likely that Santa is real.

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i was devestated when my parents admitted to me that santa didn't exist. i tricked them into telling me, i found the truth (and was happy for a split second coz it was HA! i'm right), but i was so sad at the time when i found out the illusion wasn't true...

that made christmas time less and less special to me as i grew up and now it's just another day but a great excuse to get family together, but that special feeling is gone....and so i guess that's how religious people feel but much more profoundly due to the nature of the religious belief system....it's not just one story....it's many many stories with meaning to people that gives them strength....you might say they don;t need that but i believe they do, the mind is very powerful, the placebo effect proves that.

and don't forget so many charities were born out of religion

[Gribble]

Part of being an adult is setting aside fantasies and living in reality.

[elfen31]

Belief in God is really in and of itself irrational in nature in the sense that there is no experiential proof for God's existence.

I do, however, believe in a higher Being that we can call "God"

[Only-virgins]

i was devestated when my parents admitted to me that santa didn't exist. i tricked them into telling me, i found the truth (and was happy for a split second coz it was HA! i'm right), but i was so sad at the time when i found out the illusion wasn't true...

that made christmas time less and less special to me as i grew up and now it's just another day but a great excuse to get family together, but that special feeling is gone....and so i guess that's how religious people feel but much more profoundly due to the nature of the religious belief system....it's not just one story....it's many many stories with meaning to people that gives them strength....you might say they don;t need that but i believe they do, the mind is very powerful, the placebo effect proves that.

and don't forget so many charities were born out of religion

The Ignorance is bliss argument is so pathetic.

[Mish]

Part of being an adult is setting aside fantasies and living in reality.

And living in reality means living out ones fantasies. They are called hopes and dreams.

[IndiReloaded]

Oh come on, Mish. Even you have to admit that is a really weak reply.

Would you respect someone who says they are going to throw all rational behaviour out the window and just 'trust in god' to look after their life for them?

[Mish]

Would you respect someone who says they are going to throw all rational behaviour out the window and just 'trust in god' to look after their life for them?

That's not what most Religious people do though. I would probably see Atheism in a more positive light if it also gave life a positive meaning like Religion and provided some kind of a reason as to why people should not be selfish and not hurt others. Saying simply that people should find that for themselves is not enough, people need positive guidance, people need to know where lead the roads of selfishness and selflessness.

[Gribble]

So people are wretched little monsters kept in check solely by religion?

[Mish]

So people are wretched little monsters kept in check solely by religion?

No, but people do live happier lives when their life has positive meaning and they are given positive guidance.

[IndiReloaded]

Mish, you have very little faith and hope in humanity. That is what your statement says. I like to think people can be inspired to do good for their own reasons, not b/c some externally imposed being tells them they must.

Its interesting Mish, but all the atheists I know are incredibly positive, successful people. Its the religious ones who are often miserable.

[Mish]

Mish, you have very little faith and hope in humanity. That is what your statement says. I like to think people can be inspired to do good for their own reasons, not b/c some externally imposed being tells them they must.

Why exactly do I have little faith in humanity if I believe that people live happier lives when their life has positive meaning and they are given positive guidance? Are you saying that lack of positive meaning and guidance is better than having a positive meaning in life and positive guidance?

Its interesting Mish, but all the atheists I know are incredibly positive, successful people. Its the religious ones who are often miserable.

In my experience it's the other way around. The Atheists I know are selfish, materialistic and hedonistic looking at life as a test against time, how much they can pamper their egos at other's expense (I'm not saying all of them are like that, just the ones I know), while Religious people I know are selfless, happy and successful who give a lot and live a meaningful life.

[IndiReloaded]

Because you seem to think that people need something like religion in order to be positive and happy. They don't. What they do need is to take responsibility for their own happiness, something many people have a problem with and religion doesn't help them in this regard b/c its a lie that there is 'someone' guiding them.

So, happy children who believe in Santa? Or happy children who are taught that family and holidays are precious but w/o the need for a ficticious guy in a red coat & white beard?

I think there is enough beauty in our universe w/o having to make stuff up about it.

[Mish]

Because you seem to think that people need something like religion in order to be positive and happy.

I think that people need a positive meaning in their life regardless of what provides it. Religion just happens to be something that gives it, while Atheism takes it away. Like I said, if Atheism gave a positive meaning in life then I might look at it in different light, but it doesn't. You are saying that people should start with nothing, no positive meaning and no guidance and then somehow find it themselves. I think that people should start with some type of a positive meaning in their lives and then if they are not happy with it find a different one for themselves. Or do you have very little faith and hope in humanity that people won't be able to do that?

[Only-virgins]

Atheism isn't supposed to make you happy itself. Atheism isn't a religion, it is the lack of one. As you become an atheist you find other things in life more positive. You don't try and uplift everything with the idea of a god. However if religion was right we would be in trouble in deed because from all the things that happen in the world this is no good god at all. There are many things to keep oneself and busy and enjoy life, I think astronomy alone helps prove no god but also proves how interesting and wonderful the world is. In-fact theists have a poor view on life, with out god they seem to think that there is no reason to live. I dis-agree, I am perfectly happy as an atheist and like my life.

PS: Happy moon landing anniversary, we as humanity entered a new era and space (with no help of any stupid god)

[khyyy]

Atheism doesn't "take away" a belief in something good. Nor does belief in a deity give you a belief in something good, it simply distorts your mind into believing in imaginary friends. Believing in God to me is the same concept as saying that the monster in your closet was real when you were a child, you know because you saw him and heard him. To someone of religious belief or an atheist that last part about the monster seems ridiculous, but is it really any different?

Religious people believe some of the greatest fables ever told. Christian's believe that humans walked with the dinosaurs, around 6000 years ago... while we have scientific proof that humans have existed much longer than 6000 years, not to mention that dinosaurs haven't existed on this planet in a much longer time span than that.

I see where people say "There is no proof so how can you believe in a God?" Not only is there no proof but every bit of proof for or against religion attempts to show it's false. Not to even start with the fact that every war since the dawn of time was a "Holy War" if you will. Name a war and it can be traced back to religion and shown that the war may have never even occurred had it not been for believing in imaginary deities.

One last thing I'd like to point out... everyone in the world is technically an Atheist. If your a Christian you don't believe in Allah do you? Didn't think so your an Atheist. If your a Hindu you don't believe in Jesus Christ and so on. I like to consider myself a polyatheist or an Anti-theist.

"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." - Thomas Jefferson