[News] Obama signs historic healthcare reform into law

[Doc Durian]

Taking what I say out of context and throwing up red herrings and straw men is the mark of a low brow debater, MV.

Polish up your mind, submit better arguments, keep the debate in context, and we won't have this problem. You may want to also consider being more concise and measured with your words as well.

Just a suggestion.

Good luck

[MVPlaya]

You can always make excuses for why you don't answer, but its easy for anyone to see who backs away from the arguments. Its always you.


And seriously, you're telling me to make better arguments? You're arguing a slave owning society was freer.

[Doc Durian]

Well... you're entitled to your opinion no matter how silly I may find it on some occasions, so... we can again agree to disagree and move on.

How easy was that? The world is a better place. We are once again brothers on this noble journey we call life.

[Mish]

It looks like Doc has an awkward relationship with admittance of when he is wrong

[Doc Durian]

Mish, Mish, Mish... what will we ever do with you?

Look, I realize that you're quite patriotic (for some ungodly reason I'll never understand), and that has played into some threads between us, but is all this really productive or necessary?

[Doc Durian]

Before the ink dried on the health care boondoggle President Obama just signed into law, fourteen states sprang into action to defend their sovereignty by filing suits in federal court against ObamaCare’s individual mandate.

Thirteen states – Alabama, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Washington – filed suit jointly in Pensacola, Florida, citing the “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act” as an "unprecedented encroachment on the sovereignty of the states" and basing their case on the 10th Amendment.

Virginia’s Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, filed suit separately in Richmond, Virginia.

Thanks to the tremendous work of Virginia Campaign for Liberty Executive Director Donna Holt and the tireless lobbying efforts of VA C4L, the “Healthcare Freedom Act” recently passed the Virginia General Assembly and was signed into law by Governor Bob McDonnell. This law effectively declares the individual federal mandate null and void for citizens of Virginia.

The Healthcare Freedom Act has given Attorney General Cuccinelli unique standing on which to base his lawsuit. The Virginia law reads, “No resident of this Commonwealth…shall be required to obtain or maintain a policy of individual insurance coverage….” As the Cuccinelli suit states, “The collision between the state and federal schemes also creates an immediate, actual controversy involving antagonistic assertions of right.”

It continues: “…thus far in our history, it has never been held that the Commerce Clause, even when aided by the Necessary and Proper Clause, can be used to require citizens to buy goods or services.”

The federal government, despite boasts to the contrary, knows the individual mandate rests on a perversion of the Commerce Clause that it has been allowed to get away with for far too long.

In addition to action in the courts, states around the country are also voicing their opposition toward this unjust, unconstitutional usurpation of power through legislation. Along with Virginia, Utah and Idaho have signed into law variations of Healthcare Freedom Acts, and similar legislation has been introduced in more than 25 other states!

woot! woot!

Obamacare is going down!

Hell yeah!

[MVPlaya]

Those lawsuits are going to fail fast and hard. They have no real legal merit, the constitution allows federal law to trump state law. In Virginia, that law is simply going to have to be reworked to fit the federal laws. Its that simple, this happens all the time. These AG's are simply trying to make a name for themselves among the right wing, they know they have no chance of winning this battle. None. Read any legal opinion on it. Its a political ploy, no more.

[Doc Durian]

Fellow... they will win this fight because there are millions upon millions of us who will never pay a dime regardless of how the courts render it. The courts will of course acknowledge this and be forced to render correctly...Obamacare will be defeated.

The individual States have had enough and Obamacare is just the tip of the sovereignty iceberg.

Good to see that more and more people have had enough and are ready to stand up for themselves.

This will also send a message to all the socialist moon units for the next election.

[MVPlaya]

What you say carries about as much weight as liberals saying they won't pay for the War in Iraq. The law is passed. Its over. The only chance of undoing this law is if the Republicans win both Congress and the House of Representatives, and overcome Democratic fillibusters to overturn the law. Thats an unlikely scenario.

Everything else is just a pipedream. You don't choose where your tax money goes, people are already forced to pay taxes, and the commerce clause has been applied consistently for over 70 years to allow federal law to trump state law.

[Doc Durian]

What you say carries about as much weight as liberals saying they won't pay for the War in Iraq. The law is passed. Its over. The only chance of undoing this law is if the Republicans win both Congress and the House of Representatives, and overcome Democratic fillibusters to overturn the law. Thats an unlikely scenario.

Everything else is just a pipedream. You don't choose where your tax money goes, people are already forced to pay taxes, and the commerce clause has been applied consistently for over 70 years to allow federal law to trump state law.

Watch when the threats of secession gain strength, kiddo, and then you'll understand what Obamacare and the Union is up against.

[MVPlaya]

Its delusional to think any state is going to get remotely close to seceding over free health care. At best, its going to point out that there are a bunch of idiots who are really loud, but they will never gain traction.

Of course, hearing "die hard patriots" talk about seceding always cracks me up.

Fact is, people will be loud, they will bitch, then it will subside, and business goes on as usual. Like in the event of every controversial law ever passed. It is funny, of course, to see conservatives talk about tyranny when people talk about health care, but make nothing but excuses for the PATRIOT ACT. Granted this does not include all, but it does include the overwhelming majority.

[Mish]

You're fighting a losing battle MV. You're trying to get Doc to break the sacred rule. Even if you corner him in the most obvious way and show him that he is wrong, he will still find a way to tell you why he's not. There's a medicinal word for this, I think it's called "fear being wrong" phobia

[Doc Durian]

Will you two be having a church or civil service and who will wear the frilly laced gown and garter?

[the_robot]

Will you two be having a church or civil service and who will wear the frilly laced gown and garter?

I choose church and to wear the frilly laced gown and garter. Sounds like fun.

[Doc Durian]

You're a doll, the_robot.