Completely Numb Right Now

[misombra]

lets see what this bitch has to say...

[Starry Night]

I curiouse what happens, don't fall for her manipulations Vince!

[ashley89]

Anybody here ever been in a car accident? You know that moment just before impact, when things are quickly sliding out of control and you can't do anything? That scary, giddy sensation? You know that the impact will damage your car and possibly hurt you, but there is still this moment before it hits.

That's how I feel right now.

yeah, that slow motion feeling when it seems like nothing is real?

[VincenzoG91]

Oh wow. I don't... I can't... wow.

This is Amy's side of the story.

Executive summary version: Craig is not her fiance.

It was tough getting Amy to talk at first. She was late because she had an emotional breakdown on the way over and pulled over until it passed. I served up red wine, cheese and crackers to calm her down, and talked about how my mom was doing for a bit. Then Amy relaxed enough to start talking.

Back in early 2005, I got really busy at a demanding new job, and I was struggling under the weight of a big debt management plan for costs that I covered while Amy was recovering from foot surgery. Amy drifted away and got busy taking some classes again in the fall and with extra stuff like student senate. That's when she met Craig. He was attracted to her right away, and aggressively pursued her. She felt like we weren't seeing each other at the time (true, because I was so broke), so we weren't a couple anymore, and Craig finally wore her down. They went out some, and she started to fall for him, too. She did fall in love with him, and she felt bad about it because she never got around to officially breaking things off with me. And a lot of time passed, so she figured that maybe I just moved on anyway, despite my weekly emails.

In truth, I nearly did move on. In fall of 2006, I joined a dating site, set up a profile, and contacted some women. I even talked to one woman on the phone, a cute single mother who it turned out shared mutual acquaintances with me. But I mentioned the debt management plan and she suddenly lost interest. Also, the mutual acquaintance was unfortunately somebody I dated briefly years earlier and broke things off abruptly because I didn't like competing with another guy for her attention.

Then Amy came back into my life. She realized that Craig was a serious control freak, constantly checking up on her and telling her what to do. Amy hates confrontations, she tends to run away from them, so she didn't break things off with Craig, but she did start hanging out with me again. Besides, at this point, Craig had moved an hour away from the metro area, so he just wasn't around much anyway. It started when I ran into severe car trouble and needed a ride from her. She started to realize how much she missed me and soon we were talking about getting a place together. I did most of the looking, but it was Amy who found the really neat place that we chose. As I was gearing up for the move, Amy tried repeatedly to break up with Craig. He was just so persistent that almost broke up with me one month before she moved in. I remember that night, she came over to break up with me, I got her drunk and we played a computer game together, then she passed out half-naked in my bed. A month later, she moved in as planned.

Now that Amy was living with me Craig kept blackmailing her. Sometimes he threatened that he would tell me that she was cheating on me. Sometimes he threatened that he would go over to my place and beat me up or "x, y, and z" as she phrased it. So he bullied her into staying in a controlling relationship with him even after she lived with me. She tried to break things off with me a couple of times at first... I remember random and bizarre fights where she would flip out over I don't know what, and then lock herself in the bathroom. Anyway, I was patient and caring, for the most part, and her cat and I really bonded. She got comfortable and really started to enjoy living with me, but Craig kept bothering her. And by now, he had met a lot of her friends and family, so he was threatening to tell all of them that Amy was a cheater.

In May of 2008, Craig bought a house in Minneapolis, and started to really pressure Amy again to spend time with him. She was in a panic when I proposed last January, and finally decided to protect me by breaking up with me. Craig insisted that she move in with him immediately, and also that all of her stuff in storage be moved into his house. Amy hated living like a prisoner there, so they haven't had sex in almost a year now. Craig has called her every name in the book, including in public, and especially calls her a whore or a prostitute. To get back at her for living with me for so long, he even slept with a prostitute that he met throgh... wait for it... yes... Craigslist. And then he bragged about it to Amy afterwards.

Last fall, I noticed that Amy seemed to be getting a lot closer to me again, in terms of affection and in time spent with me. She still felt trapped, but she knew that she wanted to be with me. That explains how we ended up in bed together last month. Today, she told me that this last year (since she moved out) she felt like it was our best year ever in terms of getting along. I'm a guy, so my perspective is partial agreement, except that there wasn't enough sex compared to when we were living together.

Anyway, Craig was snooping through her stuff again and found a car repair receipt with my name on it from December, and realized that we were still in contact. So after all these years of threatening to confront me, he finally did it on Monday of this week. Heh, that must have given him pause when he saw my size 14 shoes outside the apartment door, especially the combat boots. I'm a few inches taller than him, have broader shoulders, and I've been lifting weights for the last 20 years.

They aren't getting married. Amy wants out of her imprisonment at Craig's, but she doesn't want me to get hurt. She didn't know me in the '90s, when I once charged into a crack house with a tire iron to recover some stolen property of mine and got in a shoving match with a gun-toting drug dealer. I'm not afraid of anybody, though I'm not as reckless as I once was. Anyway, I told her that I need a lot of time to think about all of this, because I don't know if I can believe her. She understood. I took back my keys, and I'm going to have the locks changed anyway, since Craig sounds like trouble. Then I texted Craig to tell him that Amy and I finally talked and I couldn't tell if she was lying and I didn't care anymore. I told him that I'm out of this mess and wished them good luck together.

But the truth is, I'm going to meet with Amy one more time. We talked for over two hours and weren't finished, and didn't even get to my pages of questions. I'm suspending judgment on the whole situation for now, until I can take more time to check out the facts independently. I have a lot of friends, and some of them can get at a lot of information. I already know Craig's full name, address, credit report and recent addresses, thanks to some footwork by one of my friends. I'm going to ask Amy to put me in touch with some of her closest friends and hear what they have to say, and see how those stories match up. If her story checks out okay, then I will help her get free of him. I don't know if I want to get back together with her, but if she's trapped in a scary situation, I'll be damned if I'm going to tolerate that. I've gone to the wall for other friends for less, I'm not going to let this slide.

I’m going to have her start telling her friends and family what has been going on, and then help her move into a roommate situation somewhere. Once her friends and family have helped her move out, she can get a restraining order against Craig and start moving on. Next fall, I’m buying a house no matter what, and since my real name (which is not VincenzoG91) is absurdly common, I should be safely off anybody’s radar. If she goes through all that and gets the restraining order, I will finally believe her story and possibly take her back.

[VincenzoG91]

For what it's worth, certain specific details in her story matched up with information that my bill collector friend dug up for me earlier this week. And when I texted Craig to tell him I'm out of this mess, he kept pushing for extra details, so I could see the pushy, controlling aspect that Amy talked about. And my neighbor agreed that Craig's initial approach the other night seemed forced, when he claimed that he thought that I was just Amy's landlord who helped her out. I don't think my neighbor caught most of the conversation, but he might have heard a fair amount through the door, and he did know when the guy left because he promptly came over with beer for me.

[xxazurexx]

I wouldn't know who or what to believe

If she lied before, I'd be wary of trusting her word again. You never get the whole truth, that is for sure.

Maybe she's saying all this and because she still doesn't know where she stands with him??

That is why you remain 'cautious'.

[misombra]

why can't she get herself out of this mess? she's grown.

[VincenzoG91]

Control freaks usually like to isolate their victims. If this story is true, Craig did the opposite, by aggressively moving into her circle of friends and family to mark his territory. And when she wanted out, he threatened to tell everybody that she was a cheater. I guess.

If she wants out, I'm not doing this for her. I will help her get motivated to talk to her friends and family, to get their help. But until she actually moves out and gets a fresh start somewhere else, and gets a restraining order against the guy, I'm only providing moral support. Because if her story is true, I've been in danger for years from this guy that I didn't even know about. So when she goes through the process of getting away from him, I don't want him snooping around my place and finding her car here. First she gets away, then I will think about taking her back.

The unsettling part is that I may not have heard the whole truth yet. Parts of both of their stories match, while other parts are in direct conflict. And parts of both their stories match up with things that I've been wondering about for a long time, and parts of her story match up with my bill collector friend's research.

[VincenzoG91]

I wouldn't know who or what to believe

If she lied before, I'd be wary of trusting her word again. You never get the whole truth, that is for sure.

Maybe she's saying all this and because she still doesn't know where she stands with him??

That is why you remain 'cautious'.

Yeah, it's possible that she is still trying to keep her foot in my door in case things don't work out with her fiance, if Craig is telling the truth.

I told her that she can't live here and I'm not spending money on her anymore for now, because any suspicious cashflows could get her in trouble with Craig. And I told her that I want to talk more about all of this sometime, but because of Craig's paranoia, there is no immediate rush.

Maybe it's just the sense of adrenalin that I get from a threat to my safety, but I feel almost cheerful right now.

[vertical_sky]

Vince, this sounds like an awful situation. I really feel for you, and all you're going through.

But dude.... her story seemed seriously skewed.

She's just... TOO much the victim. All these threats, he's so controlling, he insults her and degrades her... Maybe true. But it seems a little convenient, doesn't it, that she's telling you all of this AFTER Craig finally confronted you? She could have avoided the whole mess.... he threatening to tell you she cheated, telling her family and friends she was a cheater.... By just, ya know, telling you herself! That would have avoided the big whole messy drama.

Look.... far as I can tell, they both seem sketchy. I'm not sure how getting in touch with friends of Amy is going to confirm anything for you. If she threw you for such a loop-you, who she was DATING-what makes you think she hasn't bamboozled her friends as well? Or have friends who will support whatever crazy bs she comes up with?

It's good that you can find it in your heart to give Amy a chance, but at the same time... look at this mess! If her story really IS true, it means you're gonna be dealing with Craig for as long as you're with Amy. The girl can't seem to stand on her own two feet, which means she's ALWAYS going to have this kind of stuff following her around. She describes "living like a prisoner" in his house and yet STILL couldn't fill you in?? Think of what that means for your future together!

I dunno, man, I know you've got a lot to rehash with the girl, but at the same time, it sounds (personally) like she's just pulling you back into her web of lies/cowardice. (At the very least, it's cowardice and some alarming co-dependence.) Just one two hour conversation and you're already leaning towards the sympathetic/savior. Is further conversation with this girl REALLY gonna free you... or just sink you into the drama deeper?

Yeah, MAYBE she's telling the truth (seems a pretty big maybe to me), but even if she is, is this the sort of thing you wanna deal with for the rest of your life?? I mean, what does she have, beer-dispensing nipples? (I kid, I kid.)

[sweetkissesforu]

why can't she get herself out of this mess? she's grown.

I agree dont be her hero she still lied if this was me i would have told someone period

[sweetkissesforu]

Run run run Amy is nothing but trouble

[xxazurexx]

Yeah, it's possible that she is still trying to keep her foot in my door in case things don't work out with her fiance, if Craig is telling the truth.

I told her that she can't live here and I'm not spending money on her anymore for now, because any suspicious cashflows could get her in trouble with Craig. And I told her that I want to talk more about all of this sometime, but because of Craig's paranoia, there is no immediate rush.

Maybe it's just the sense of adrenalin that I get from a threat to my safety, but I feel almost cheerful right now.

Glad you have cheered up.

I hope things turn out the way you want them too

[Starry Night]

Vince,

Please tread lightly, you sound like a really nice guy- and you have to keep in mind that people can sense that and take advantage of you. If she is manipulative, she already knows she can feed you lines and you will take her word for it.

Listen, and take some time to think. She has had days, literally, to craft a story that you will believe. She has known you for years so she can use what she knows of you to her advantage. Most people, if they are accused of something, will fight to the end and defend their honor. If this was true, if Craig really was the guy she paints him to be, she would have driven to your place that night and explained everything. After all, you sound like you could physically take care of this guy if he was a problem, so any controlling/emotional abuse this guy could have suggested should have been more reason for her to run to you in comfort and explain the situation. She had not days, but years, to tell you this was going on.

I am not going to give you any flank for wanting to believe her. When we love someone we put full trust in their words, we want to believe them. But something isn't right here.

Think about that night you met Craig. The stories he told, how you felt when he left. Think about when you started connecting the dots, all of a sudden there were gapping holes in the relationship. And how did it feel in your gut? The pit of your stomach, as you reached out of the fog? What did your gut tell you?

You my friend, can't rely on anyone, but yourself. Not Amy, not Craig. As someone put on another forum I frequent "There is your story, there is their story, and then there is the truth". You will find the truth, but listen to your gut, pull up any red flags you have ignored or have been blind to. It's obvious you still care about the girl, as you should, you sound like a compassionate person- you wouldn't be human if you didn't. But really do some soul searching, listen to yourself & don't second guess. Don't make excuses for her or yourself.

If a dear friend told you this story, what would you tell them? Look at it as an outsider looking in, don't let your romantic feelings dictate the future of the relationship. Ignore the heart and see what your mind says about it.

[sweetkissesforu]

[url=http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/confronting-a-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html]Pathological versus Compulsive Liars - Truth About Deception[/url]
Some people are good at it and dont forget you have been helping Amy financally so she has a reason to keep you around