don't take drugs....they are bad for you

[starbuck]

We're not talking about the article Eco. We're talking about you and your annoying tendency to deliberately provide no context whatsoever to whatever drivel you're using to try to win your argument.

Whose opinion was it? What website does it come from? Why does the writer care? Where did he/she get his/her information? All of this context would be helpful. A link to the source would be an excellent place to start.

[DoesntMatter]

Now I've seen your pic, I'll say that you would totally have been my type as a student, DM. Your problem w/girls isn't your looks or your brains. Its your damn attitude. That, and your gun obsession.

lol come on, if I have a gun obsession then I also have a chemistry obsession, Bills obsession, money obsession, porn obsession.... all things I spend far more time with and talk more about

I still think you're a little shit, tho. Stop humping my rump.

A) I am a little shit

B) I will continue to hump your rump until I finish

[ecojeanne]

starbuck oh so its about me now is it...well at least you're honest...calm down....no need to get all angry....i posted ideas and my opinion and if you don't agree thats fine....i never stated the article was a fact....thats all there really is to say....but you've pointed out how petty you are by not expressing an opinion on the subject but rather the way i present it and assuming i think all americans are zombies....i never said that....so please say something about the subject of the thread rather than trying to attack me personally....its pathetic

[shh!]

I'd sure like eco to address the fact that the majority of people involved in "medication errors" were junkies who overdosed. She never DID want to respond to that...

(And no, I'm not looking up the link again.)

[IndiReloaded]

Arguing w/Eco is like arguing with a creationist. No winning, no mutual understanding. Pretense of open mindedness but its false, at least for this topic. Ppl discussing "Pet Topics" are rarely unbiased, tho. In fact, one needs to take a stance to have a decent argument. Fence sitting is boring. Shrug.

Still, I value the fact you are willing to bring up issues, EJ. Discussion is a start & one can't get better at arguing if one doesn't do it. Too many ppl are afraid of argument & can't do it w/o getting upset, what you say about this is true.

[ecojeanne]

indi thanks, i have to say the debate was great, i really enjoyed being able to express all my thoughts with someone who didn't bash me for them but was willing to discuss rationally.....its a first for me on lf to have a discussion with a rational person like you. I appreciated it

[starbuck]

starbuck oh so its about me now is it...well at least you're honest...calm down....no need to get all angry....i posted ideas and my opinion and if you don't agree thats fine....i never stated the article was a fact....thats all there really is to say....but you've pointed out how petty you are by not expressing an opinion on the subject but rather the way i present it and assuming i think all americans are zombies....i never said that....so please say something about the subject of the thread rather than trying to attack me personally....its pathetic

Nope, not angry. Sorry to disappoint. Pointing out flaws in the way that you argue is actually not personally attacking you as much as you'd like to think it is.

I've stated my opinion about this subject back in my endometriosis thread, when it got cluttered up with this discussion.

[ecojeanne]

starbuck good i'm glad its not me personally you have a problem with then.....so you don't agree....thats fine

[IndiReloaded]

indi thanks, i have to say the debate was great, i really enjoyed being able to express all my thoughts with someone who didn't bash me for them but was willing to discuss rationally.....its a first for me on lf to have a discussion with a rational person like you. I appreciated it

No problem, Eco. My only suggestion for you is that, sometimes, one needs to concede a point to the other party. This aids understanding, avoids repetition & moves the argument forward into new areas. I felt, and I think what others are saying, is that you have a tendency to simply ignore that which you don't understand or disagree with, even in the face of reasonable evidence.

Of course, you don't have to do this, opinions need not be justified. Its just a suggestion if you enjoy this kind of thing & would like to do more of it with ppl.

When he has time to argue, Mishyana is also very good at requesting more info for clarifying & conceding points. I only point this out b/c he is also usually rather polite about it. I think its a lovely style, personally, tho not everyone can pull it off. Just for your interest.

[IndiReloaded]

For Starbuck: I'm really enjoying your posts. Not sure if Ive said this before, but there you are.

[ecojeanne]

No problem, Eco. My only suggestion for you is that, sometimes, one needs to concede a point to the other party. This aids understanding, avoids repetition & moves the argument forward into new areas. I felt, and I think what others are saying, is that you have a tendency to simply ignore that which you don't understand or disagree with, even in the face of reasonable evidence.

Of course, you don't have to do this, opinions need not be justified. Its just a suggestion if you enjoy this kind of thing & would like to do more of it with ppl.

When he has time to argue, Mishyana is also very good at requesting more info for clarifying & conceding points. I only point this out b/c he is also usually rather polite about it. I think its a lovely style, personally, tho not everyone can pull it off. Just for your interest.

i completely agree, there were many times i asked for more info and haven't been provided with it....i asked for more info from you that you didn't provide...like the fact here in Ireland they don't allow advertising....yes people take drugs recommended by their doctors....now why would a whole country decide that was a good idea not to allow advertising though......i think you know the answer.....you decided to ignore that point. I asked for more info on the ad busters also out of interest. I'm always open for someone to change my mind. I'm not open to people trying to insult my intelligence just because i have an opinion though. which of course you didn't do which is why i enjoyed the debate. you freely admitted that pharma companies have been caught lying because there is evidence. I never said that the pharma industry is useless...what i did say though was that the structure needed to change in a more positive way...which you also agreed but in a different way. You agree with the advertising which is fine. thats whats called a difference of opinion. i don't mind.

[IndiReloaded]

i completely agree, there were many times i asked for more info and haven't been provided with it....i asked for more info from you that you didn't provide...like the fact here in Ireland they don't allow advertising....yes people take drugs recommended by their doctors....now why would a whole country decide that was a good idea not to allow advertising though......i think you know the answer.....you decided to ignore that point.

I answered quite clearly, Eco.

Anyway, its not a good strategy to try to pull your points from ppl. Particularly when they obviously do know much more than you, as I do compared with you. Not arrogance, just the truth. You didnt actually tell me anything I didn't already know. So it was just wasted effort on your part to try to score 'points' this way. You would have been much more efficient to simply state your point, clearly. About 3 posts less, in fact.

I can see why ppl find you frustrating. You're not trying to communicate, you are trying to score points. You say not, but that is what you are doing. If you don't like the responses you get, change your mode. I think I said this in another thread before.

[starbuck]

starbuck good i'm glad its not me personally you have a problem with then.....so you don't agree....thats fine

I already said in another thread that I like you, Eco. When I argue with you, it's never personal.

Personally right now I'm going against my doctor's wishes of taking BCPs for my endo in search of some more naturapathic remedies. I don't take every single drug my doctors tell me to. Maybe I'll end up regretting this decision. I really don't know.

But my endo isn't life-threatening. If I had something life-threatening or the like, I'd listen pretty carefully to my doctors. I favor a balance.

[IndiReloaded]

Eco, have you actually stated your expertise in this area, if any? You don't have to, but it would provide some context for your opinions. We are all products of our training & upbringing, as you quite rightly stated earlier.

FWIW, I am a scientist. That's my training. Biochemistry, molecular immunology, psychology. I'm not directly involved in medicine or the drug industry, but I do know quite a lot about pharmacology.

[ecojeanne]

I answered quite clearly, Eco.

Anyway, its not a good strategy to try to pull your points from ppl. Particularly when they obviously do know much more than you, as I do compared with you. Not arrogance, just the truth. You didnt actually tell me anything I didn't already know. So it was just wasted effort on your part to try to score 'points' this way. You would have been much more efficient to simply state your point, clearly. About 3 posts less, in fact.

I can see why ppl find you frustrating. You're not trying to communicate, you are trying to score points. You say not, but that is what you are doing. If you don't like the responses you get, change your mode. I think I said this in another thread before.

again you're completely ignoring my quest for information from you....if you already knew everything i was commenting on then why did you continue the debate without providing an opinion on the point of no advertising here in Ireland and more info on the ad busters....i'm confused at your response coz it seems you want to continue to avoid this after telling me that i avoided points which to be honest i don't think i did....tell me i'm willing to address them.....and in regard to point scoring....this has nothing to do with it....???