The God Illusion?

[Mish]

Atheism doesn't "take away" a belief in something good. Nor does belief in a deity give you a belief in something good, it simply distorts your mind into believing in imaginary friends.

I didn't say "something good", I said positive meaning in life. Religion gives it, Atheism doesn't.

One last thing I'd like to point out... everyone in the world is technically an Atheist. If your a Christian you don't believe in Allah do you? Didn't think so your an Atheist. If your a Hindu you don't believe in Jesus Christ and so on. I like to consider myself a polyatheist or an Anti-theist.

Do you even know what Atheism is?

[Only-virgins]

Do you even know what Atheism is?

You don't know what he meant? He had a valid point. A christian is a atheist to a Hindu. Speaking in terms of different beliefs. Even religions don't agree with each other why should atheists even care.

[Mish]

A christian is a atheist to a Hindu. Speaking in terms of different beliefs.

A Christian is a follower of different faith to a Hindu, an infidel to fundamentalists. An Atheist is a person who believes that deities do not exist all together.

[khyyy]

Yes, it's the disbelief in theism, which is the belief in a single god. I.e. You can technically be considered an atheist and still be a devout Christian based on the simple fact that you don't believe in Buddha, Allah, etc.

Also sorry I misunderstood what you said, however in the same sense it doesn't give positive meaning to life either. It's a simple delusion, that makes you believe in a higher power, instead of scientific fact. It's a "faith" as it's so commonly referred to that makes you scared shitless of the fact that if you break a rule your going to live in an eternity of fire, brimstone and torture. How exactly is that form of unneeded fear and stress on your everyday life "positive meaning"? I lost faith in religion at a very young age (I'm 20 now, and I'd have to say I stopped believing in God around 11) and being honest? Having no faith has helped me a lot throughout my life, making me a much more rational person. You can't be a person of rational thought and have religion the two don't go hand in hand.

[Only-virgins]

A Christian is a follower of different faith to a Hindu, an infidel to fundamentalists. An Atheist is a person who believes that deities do not exist all together.

There are religions that do not have an omnipotent god at all. As there are religions with many gods. I view atheism as the refusal to accept bullshit.

[Gribble]

From Dictionary.com

Atheism: disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

I take it a step further and say that atheism is knowing that there is no supreme honcho or honchos.

[khyyy]

Different definitions from different people. For example a very very bright man and one of my idols is Christopher Hitchens. He coins himself a Anti-theist as well, simply stating not only does he not believe in religion he is highly against the fact of it even existing. He has also in one video I saw of him, given the same example I just gave of being an atheist or agnostic and still believing in some form of deity. He simply states that if you are a true "atheist" by definition then you are an Anti-theist as well, otherwise by using the word Atheist you could simply be just using another word for agnostic (definition: fence sitter, a person who is pretty sure there is no god, but what the hell, just in case I'll still admit I'm not certain, don't want to burn for the rest of my days!)

[Mish]

Also sorry I misunderstood what you said, however in the same sense it doesn't give positive meaning to life either. It's a simple delusion, that makes you believe in a higher power, instead of scientific fact. It's a "faith" as it's so commonly referred to that makes you scared shitless of the fact that if you break a rule your going to live in an eternity of fire, brimstone and torture. How exactly is that form of unneeded fear and stress on your everyday life "positive meaning"?

Positive meaning in life means your life has a positive meaning. You are not born to a meaningless life of nothingness and you are not just living to die, your life has a positive purpose that you should strive towards. It also means that every positive action you make creates positive consequences and every negative action creates negative ones. It also means there are values which are universal which people need to take into account in their everyday life. There is also an emphasis on the Golden rule (which is at the center of most Religions). It means many other things in addition to that.

[khyyy]

See I feel like, I get more positive meaning of life by striving to make myself better with each day. Having that sense of accomplishment, if I get a promotion that I've been working hard for, making new friends that sort of thing. Instead of praying for accomplishments that when they come true you simply say "Thank you God, what would I do without you?" when in reality it was just you doing what an atheist would do, yet the atheist would get self worth out of the accomplishment where as you get self worth out of thinking a random omnipotent being sitting up in the clouds actually is listening to you.

[Mish]

yet the atheist would get self worth out of the accomplishment

Atheism does not touch upon the subject of positive life meaning all together, so where an Atheist would find their self worth is unknown. They will be starting with nothing, Atheism will not provide them with any reasons why their life should be meaningful or positive, it may on the contrary provide reasons why it shouldn't be as stated by many Moral Nihilists which are Atheist adherents.

For example, a moral nihilist would say that killing someone, for whatever reason, is not inherently right or wrong. According to Sinnott-Armstrong (2006a), the basic thesis of moral nihilism is that "nothing is morally wrong". To add to that Nihilism (Atheism adherents) suggests that values do not exist but rather are falsely invented. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism which argues that life is without meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.

[IndiReloaded]

Atheism does not touch upon the subject of positive life meaning all together, so where an Atheist would find their self worth is unknown. They will be starting with nothing, Atheism will not provide them with any reasons why their life should be meaningful or positive, it may on the contrary provide reasons why it shouldn't be as stated by many Moral Nihilists which are Atheist adherents.

This is BS, Mish. I have plenty of self-worth, and I don't believe in a god(s).

Religious groups try to use the atheism = amoral argument all the time. Its a false argument. Atheists are decent people just like theists are. They want the same things out of life (except for an afterlife) and understand that to make life better they have to live by the same set of moral rules and laws of the land that theists do. A basic tenet of Secular Humanism is to treat your fellow man well, the way you want to be treated. Atheists gain nothing by lying, cheating, stealing, or murdering. Religion does not have a monopoly on moral values, and in fact the vast majority of people in prison in the US believe in and practice some form of religion or another. Only about 1% or less of the prison population is agnostic or atheist, compared to about 10-15% in the general population.

[IndiReloaded]

I would actually argue that atheists, as a group, are far more repressed by religious groups than anything near the converse. Atheists don't press their belief on others, merely explain better WHY we are justified in our stance. Usually after having a theist try to shove their lies and beliefs down our throats. Its true that many atheists argue very elegantly and rationally, but that's not our fault we actually have a valid argument to make.

I don't bother religious folks. Only when they come to MY door and try to peddle their lies/misconceptions to ME or others I care about.

[khyyy]

lol Indi I like you, also like the fact that you bought up the prison stat I had completely forgot about that on my like like 10 explanations to "religious acquaintances" who were trying to convince me that Atheist's are evil and immoral people.

[Mish]

This is BS, Mish. I have plenty of self-worth, and I don't believe in a god(s).

Indi this debate is not about you. I never once told you that you lack self worth. The debate is about Atheism and it's lack of clarification why people should live positive and meaningful lives if many Atheists claim that life itself lacks purpose and meaning.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a society that teaches life has no value, purpose and meaning, that there are no morals and nothing is really right or wrong.

Atheists are decent people just like theists are. They want the same things out of life (except for an afterlife) and understand that to make life better they have to live by the same set of moral rules and laws of the land that theists do.

There are members of white power who are decent people too, who are kind and look after others, they don't commit hate crimes and generally live decent lives. It's doesn't mean that there isn't something wrong with the paradigm they follow and believe in.

and in fact the vast majority of people in prison in the US believe in and practice some form of religion or another. Only about 1% or less of the prison population is agnostic or atheist, compared to about 10-15% in the general population.

That doesn't surprise me, majority of the population is made up of Religious people. Atheists make up only a couple of percent of the population.

[Junket]

I don't see why people can't be taught values separate from religion.

Your argument sucks.