Human Trash

[Incognito]

I wouldn't be so critical of "higher learning" were it not for the fact that schools are unabashed money makers, it's an industry in itself, and in my opinion, much of which is way overpriced. We've grown up knowing how expensive school is so many people have simply accepted it, but honestly I think in most cases, the education they provide isn't worth it. Kids are thrust into colleges while they're still trying to figure out who they are and what they want to do, many end up going back after the fact once they've figured those things out. It's a horrible trap.

Too many kids come out of school without a clue as to how the world works or how they want to be a part of it, but jump into college, and a decade or more into debt, simply because everyone else did it, and everyone else expected them to do it too.

It's deeper than the schools, it's cultural, and people need to start to reconsider what is really important to help us raise the standard for everyone. Not just the liberal suburbanites planning to go into white collar service industry.

I agree with almost all of what you said. I do think that higher education can be benificial, but it simply isn't worth doing these days. People are coming out of college with AAs, BSs, and Masters degrees only to realize that there is no work because the workforce is glutted with people holding the same degree. My friend (who works at Trader Joe's) tells me that there are two guys with Masters degrees there and one guy with a PhD there because they couldn't find work and needed to make some sort of money for living and to pay back loans. That is laughable.

I thought about going back, but why should I be forced to pay for classes that I don't need just because the school requires me to take them? Its just a money making scheme thats why. Too many people accept the current system, waste their valuable time, and put themselves in debt.....and for what? Sure you may get a good job, if you're one of the lucky ones, but then you still have to pay back that loaned money. The loans are generally proportional to what your income level is (if you're lucky enough to land a job in the field that you went to school for). The more your ultimate income, the higher the loans were to get there, so you don't really "win" until years later.

[vashti]

My friend (who works at Trader Joe's) tells me that there are two guys with Masters degrees there and one guy with a PhD there because they couldn't find work and needed to make some sort of money for living and to pay back loans. That is laughable.

What were their degrees in?

[dewilliams2]

I agree with almost all of what you said. I do think that higher education can be benificial, but it simply isn't worth doing these days. People are coming out of college with AAs, BSs, and Masters degrees only to realize that there is no work because the workforce is glutted with people holding the same degree. My friend (who works at Trader Joe's) tells me that there are two guys with Masters degrees there and one guy with a PhD there because they couldn't find work and needed to make some sort of money for living and to pay back loans. That is laughable.

I thought about going back, but why should I be forced to pay for classes that I don't need just because the school requires me to take them? Its just a money making scheme thats why. Too many people accept the current system, waste their valuable time, and put themselves in debt.....and for what? Sure you may get a good job, if you're one of the lucky ones, but then you still have to pay back that loaned money. The loans are generally proportional to what your income level is (if you're lucky enough to land a job in the field that you went to school for). The more your ultimate income, the higher the loans were to get there, so you don't really "win" until years later.

A lot of this also has to do with the fact that the economy sucks right now and about 10% of the population is out of work. That is coupled with the fact that the baby-boomer generation is staying int he workforce longer. Sometimes its because they have to make ends meet and other times its because they enjoy working.

But they won't be around forever and the economy will come around again....in the mean time I'm gonna work on getting my degrees and gaining experience at work.

[dewilliams2]

Uh, I'm not even trying to be argumentative at this point, but honestly, I learn all of those things every day just by picking the brains of the older guys who are pulling their knowledge from decades of experience.

I wouldn't be so critical of "higher learning" were it not for the fact that schools are unabashed money makers, it's an industry in itself, and in my opinion, much of which is way overpriced. We've grown up knowing how expensive school is so many people have simply accepted it, but honestly I think in most cases, the education they provide isn't worth it. Kids are thrust into colleges while they're still trying to figure out who they are and what they want to do, many end up going back after the fact once they've figured those things out. It's a horrible trap.

For example: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista]Reconquista - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Should I wish to delve into the subject further, I can look up books written about the time period as well.

All for the cost of a low monthly internet bill.

I understand when someone has goals they'd like to achieve that school may be a stepping stone towards that goal. DM for example wanting to be a doctor so that he can be rich and bang some chicks, I say good for him, he knows what he wants (at the moment), and he's going for it.

There was also a time when everyone was expected to have multiple credit cards and a steady amount of debt, just because. Well, why? I mean, that's a bit costly isn't it? Just because your parents did it, and your friends do it, and the credit card companies want you to, doesn't mean you should.

I believe public schools need to provide a more well rounded education than they are now. Too many kids come out of school without a clue as to how the world works or how they want to be a part of it, but jump into college, and a decade or more into debt, simply because everyone else did it, and everyone else expected them to do it too.

It's deeper than the schools, it's cultural, and people need to start to reconsider what is really important to help us raise the standard for everyone. Not just the liberal suburbanites planning to go into white collar service industry.

It is true we need reform on higher education funding...however that doesn't mean because the system is broke I simply won't take part in it. Personally I feel that automotive insurance is bullshit and should be reformed...they take my money, I'm never in a wreck, but I have to have it by law in case I am in a wreck....to me insurance companies are the worst of all businesses because they do set out to make money and when they are supposed to offer piece of mind a lot of times you hear about them not paying out.

Like down in New Orleans, many peoples homeowners insurance did not cover the damage because the insurance company said "it was wind and not water damage, or it was water and not wind damage"...but even though the system is broken that doesn't mean I won't insure my car and home.

And while certainly you can self-educate, in the end you won't get a piece of paper saying you know what you are talking about and simply walking up to an employer and saying "I know that" isn't as credible in most cases as a guy walking up and saying "I have a piece of paper that says I know that."

I to learn from an older gentleman I work with...he isn't really old, only 44 but he has a lot of experience with animals, as a mechanic, electrician, plumber, and carpenter. He was doing it for the zoo 20 years before I got there so I have learned a lot from him. These are things I can apply in a job and in life that are no less practical then what I have learned at college. However, I do not have a piece of paper saying I know these things which makes it much more difficult for me to find another job working with animals for example. The only reason why I am working with exotic animals is because when I was 15 I worked on my neighbors farm and they had a heard of camels and they knew the lady that owned the zoo I work at now...networking got me this job.

[LailaK]

You people and your silly colleges.

Ya don't need college to be financially secure, live in a nice neighborhood, and be a lawful and productive citizen.

If my kid wants to go to college bad enough they'll pay for it themselves.

You go ahead and send your kid to crap schools and don't send them to college. No skin off my back. When they end up stuck in a hell hole like New Orleans maybe they shouldn't complain as much as you do.

Newsflash: Colleges don't really give a crap the high school you went to. Its not one of their main deciding factors. Your grades, the courses you took and (in US) your SAT scores are what matters.

But yes, education quality tends to be better in better-funded schools but that's not the same thing.

Did I say colleges gave a crap which high school kids went to? No. I believe I mentioned other factors that make wealthy schools awesome.

[asdfg789]

I think it is a fact that having a piece of paper (a basic degree, vocational diploma etc) opens up more job opportunities for the individual. Of course, there are exceptional cases where highly educated people are jobless but often that is down to other issues like attitude, mis-matched expectations etc.

Years ago, there were many courses in university that I found to be really interesting. But they now represent knowledge that I dont use. Conversely, courses that were boring and an absolute turn-off at that time, turned out to be gems that I fall back on everyday. So it is hard to tell sometimes. Besides, can you say for sure that you know how to use the time spent on those "useless" courses in a much more productive manner on your own ? (besides humping the sorority girls but that another topic )

As mentioned in an earlier post, college/university teaches a person the basics AND it teaches you to learn on your own in the future. There is also another dimension - it allows you to interact with others who will go on to become doctors, lawyers, physicists, engineers and the like. These bonds that you form can often help you later in life.

Lastly, it shouldn't be a surprise that every country has problems with their education system. To deny yourself higher education in protest may not be the wisest thing. On the balance, one would stand to lose more than you would gain.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for young people who are trying to decide between jumping into the job market right away vs investing another few years to acquire a basic degree/vocational diploma etc, do the later whenever possible. It would be so much harder to go back to school once you start working full time.

Just my 2 cents ...

[Gribble]

I have a friend with a degree in compsci and another with a degree in math and a minor in compsci. Neither can get a decent job. Both are brilliant. Both are hard workers. None of that is enough anymore. Makes me wonder what it'll be like twenty years from now. Scary. It's hard to disagree with crime when people who are actually trying to do things the right way can't make it. Shit. They may as well get a boat, a few RPGs and start taking ships for ransom. Maybe I'll join them.

[Sonrisa]

What's your academic history?

i am working full time and going to school at night PRESENTLY.

[Sonrisa]

I have a friend with a degree in compsci and another with a degree in math and a minor in compsci. Neither can get a decent job. Both are brilliant. Both are hard workers. None of that is enough anymore. Makes me wonder what it'll be like twenty years from now. Scary. It's hard to disagree with crime when people who are actually trying to do things the right way can't make it. Shit. They may as well get a boat, a few RPGs and start taking ships for ransom. Maybe I'll join them.

maybe they should move to cali, unless they are already here

[vashti]

I think smart, motivated people CAN do just fine without university... It's just that there are a LOT of people in the world that are less than brilliant, and even more with an extremely poor work ethic, and are lazy.

And of course, there ARE certain fields that require formal education...

[Sonrisa]

but Vashti, do you think that parents should be paying for their kids' education?

[vashti]

but Vashti, do you think that parents should be paying for their kids' education?

I think parents should prepare their kids for living life as an independent adult. If that means the kid wants to be a doctor (and has the capacity), and the parents can afford to help, they should. I don't really understand parents who refuse to help out a child who has potential, to be honest. And I don't understand being willing to watch your child accrue large debt if it can be avoided.

That said, I understand why a parent wouldn't want to fund the pursuit of a degree that will have little or no financial value. The pursuit of a degree in certain subjects is pretty much a guarantee the kid won't be financially independent as an adult.

[Gribble]

When you create life and bring it into this world you have a certain responsibility.

I hate this idea that kids are all a bunch of lazy bastards and they should learn to get by without their parents. No. The parents are the ones who need to quit being lazy good-for-nothings. You brought children into this world, you damn well better make sure they have the absolute best lives possible. Show some ****ing responsibility for YOUR actions. That includes helping your children with their education even after they've hit that magic number of 18. Don't like that? Well, maybe you should have worn a rubber you ****ing ingrate.

[Incognito]

I think that is a view that should be held by parents, but not by children. Too many times kids expect that everything should be handed to them on a silver platter no matter what everyone else has to sacrifice to give it to them. Everyone has to make their own way in life, and no one can suckle on mommy and daddy's teet forever (although most in this generation would like to do just that). They are people just like everyone else, so if they can't be at least partly responsible for their own education then f*ck them. Too many kids drop out of college each year because they were spending too much time partying or slacking off. Why were they doing this? It wasn't their money being wasted. Most of the ones who don't give a rats ass and spend more time drunk/high are the ones who aren't paying for their own education. People like that SHOULD be picking up my trash.

[dewilliams2]

I think that is a view that should be held by parents, but not by children. Too many times kids expect that everything should be handed to them on a silver platter no matter what everyone else has to sacrifice to give it to them. Everyone has to make their own way in life, and no one can suckle on mommy and daddy's teet forever (although most in this generation would like to do just that). They are people just like everyone else, so if they can't be at least partly responsible for their own education then f*ck them. Too many kids drop out of college each year because they were spending too much time partying or slacking off. Why were they doing this? It wasn't their money being wasted. Most of the ones who don't give a rats ass and spend more time drunk/high are the ones who aren't paying for their own education. People like that SHOULD be picking up my trash.

I spoke of this in a previous post about my friend who's parents give him everything and how he doesn't appreciate it as much as I do because I had to work for it. As Gribble was saying this comes down to parenting. If you teach your children that is the way of the world then that is what they will expect. My parents gave me a lot and have helped me a lot and right now if I needed help I could call and ask and they would do what they could....I know this. But I also worked at home. I had chores I did to earn money. We have a farm, I've painted barns, mowed the grass, put in a garden (and maintained it), built and maintained fence, cut, split, stacked, and carried wood.

I remember my mother telling me when I was very young and did not want to help clean up the house that we cohabited the home together and therefore we all had to take an active role in cleaning the home. I know that sounds like a lot to tell a 3 year old but my parents also explained things to me and gave me the definition of words.

So if you want your kids to expect that everything will be given to them then give it to them, if you want to make them work for it then teach them to work for it. You don't have to have the paint the barn (I realize not everyone has one)...but you can have them do other things around the house, pick the sticks up outta the yard, plant flowers, wash the car...there is no limit to what you can have them do. And when they are 15-16 help them find a job.

All this comes down to is parenting which is exactly what Gribble was getting at.

*edit*...and don't be afraid to tell your kids no when they want something and don't need it. I do love playing video games but my parents never bought me a single gaming system. I bought them all myself and I've had most popular models from the atari onward...basically I never had a dreamcast or gamecube....and I'm fine for having to buy those myself....don't be afraid to tell your kids no.