Am I passive aggressive?

[Wakeup]

There was nothing passive about giving him a book and saying "I think you need to read this."

You're right there isn't in an instance where she's been a peach and he's caving/retreating due to his own unstable issues and NOT stemming from her aggressive anger. However: There is if she's been a raving bitch and then putting all the blame on him and not taking any responsibility for the other half of the tango.

[IndiReloaded]

Yeah, I go straight to anger when I read HIA's musings.

:hug:

Well, this is going to devolve into one of those threads full of conjecture until the OP comes back and answers the posts. All good stuff. I'm going skiing (I love my holidays). Ciao!

[Love'sReject]

Yeah, I go straight to anger when I read HIA's musings.

Lol, owned.

[HeartIsAching]

You're right there isn't in an instance where she's been a peach and he's caving/retreating due to his own unstable issues and NOT stemming from her aggressive anger. However: There is if she's been a raving bitch and then putting all the blame on him and not taking any responsibility for the other half of the tango.

I didn't say she'd never been passive-aggressive. Just that there's nothing passive about giving him a book - that's active.

[IndiReloaded]

You're right there isn't in an instance where she's been a peach and he's caving/retreating due to his own unstable issues and NOT stemming from her aggressive anger. However: There is if she's been a raving bitch and then putting all the blame on him and not taking any responsibility for the other half of the tango.

Just to add to HIA's post. You'd have to be pretty messed up to interpret giving someone a book (or was it an article?) as being passive-aggressive. Even if she was upset (and I bet she was, given the OPs behaviour), seems to me a pretty reasonable way to change the tone of the interactions, yes? Unless she screamed at him while giving it to him, which I doubt unless she's completely crazy.

So far, he hasn't posted anything that suggests she's done anything wrong other than get justifiably upset at his self-admitted emotional disconnect and withdrawal. Would be interesting to know what he thinks his wife's issues are (perhaps an echo in the thread?).

I didn't say she'd never been passive-aggressive. Just that there's nothing passive about giving him a book - that's active.

Agree. Wakeup is over-interpreting again from the available data.

[Cerby]

Oh, go ahead and be contrary - especially when you know you're right. MMWV is rubbish. I read it years ago and I had exactly the reaction you're talking about. I thought it was feminist crap that had nothing to do with me.

I'll have to try out SHMM... though I suspect I know the secrets now.

I'll agree to disagree, I thought the book offered quite a bit in the way of conflict management for relationships...but that said, I don't have the experience that either you or Indi do. Too bad that rubbish has sold millions of copies, otherwise I might believe you both when you say it's no good I'm going to read the other books you've listed as well, but I won't discount the things I learned in MMWV, because I reference some of those things in my current happy relationship.

The bottom line is no book will help the OP if he doesn't want to get help or doesn't realize he is at least partially responsible for the way things are going.

[IndiReloaded]

You want me to give you examples of things that have sold millions that are rubbish? The average person isn't that intelligent, Cerb. How many copies of something sold != quality, not in the slightest.

Though, to be fair, I wasn't calling it rubbish. I think, like all tools, it has a place for the right situation. Not sure this is it, though. Still, can't hurt I suppose.

[Wakeup]

I didn't say she'd never been passive-aggressive. Just that there's nothing passive about giving him a book - that's active.

And, I said I agreed. With exceptions.

To add: the word "if" was used. "If" she has been a peach/ "If" she has been a raving bitch.

[Cerby]

You want me to give you examples of things that have sold millions that are rubbish? The average person isn't that intelligent, Cerb. How many copies of something sold != quality, not in the slightest.

Though, to be fair, I wasn't calling it rubbish. I think, like all tools, it has a place for the right situation. Not sure this is it, though. Still, can't hurt I suppose.

We're not talking Pokemon cards here, people don't read self-help books for awful storyline, it isn't Twilight or Harry Potter, it is a book about self improvement. Like I said, I agree to disagree with you both, I thought it offered some good perspective and will leave it at that.

I do agree that it won't help the OP, but I don't think any book will. He doesn't believe he is the problem in his relationship, so apart from bluntly beating good information into his head, nothing on paper is going to help him.

[Wakeup]

Well.. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[IndiReloaded]

We're not talking Pokemon cards here, people don't read self-help books for storyline, it isn't Twilight or Harry Potter, it is a book about self improvement. Like I said, I agree to disagree with you both, I thought it offered some good perspective and will leave it at that.

I do agree that it won't help the OP, but I don't think any book will. He doesn't believe he is the problem in his relationship, so apart from bluntly beating good information into his head, nothing on paper is going to help him.

As I said, I didn't call the book rubbish. Just that its not for everyone and not nearly as helpful and the "self-help" gurus would like you to think. Here's the irrefutable logic: if the book was so good and the information so valuable, then it *wouldn't* continue to sell so many copies. The material in it, by now (the book is decades old, after all), would be a regular part of everyone's "relationship training" (just like how everyone now uses social media to connect, noone buys books about this), and the principles from these books would be integrated into society and its expectations of how healthy relationships work. It would probably be part of a regular school curriculum on 'human dynamics' or something like. Humans adopt what actually *works*. By works I mean = gets results.

The ideas in those books are good for some, but highly esoteric for many others. I think people buy those books hoping that act alone will help them, but of course it doesn't. That's the reason why these books, and Deepak Chopra (in my day it was Leo Buscalgia) sell millions. Not b/c they necessarily *work* but b/c people *hope* they will. About the same investment one gets buying a lottery ticket, with the same result most times.

Anyway, that's me being the cynic. I agree with you - I don't think any book will help the OP unless and until he acknowledges his own contribution to his marriage problems. Right now, he's not there. He's still looking for an excuse to avoid the label rather than ask why his wife thinks there is a problem important enough for her to give him the article or whatever she did.

[Guybrush]

Am I passive aggressive?

Yes, you're passive-aggressive.

Just a note (and perhaps a word of caution): Should we really be diagnosing our fellow posters here? Isn't that a bit risky?

[HeartIsAching]

I'll agree to disagree, I thought the book offered quite a bit in the way of conflict management for relationships...but that said, I don't have the experience that either you or Indi do. Too bad that rubbish has sold millions of copies, otherwise I might believe you both when you say it's no good I'm going to read the other books you've listed as well, but I won't discount the things I learned in MMWV, because I reference some of those things in my current happy relationship.

The bottom line is no book will help the OP if he doesn't want to get help or doesn't realize he is at least partially responsible for the way things are going.

Nah, I need to re-read it now that I've got some better perspective. I do actually think it's got the right idea, but the wrong method of delivery. When I first read it years ago, I was not the guy I am now. That's actually what I mean - in that state of mind, it did absolutely NOTHING for me. I'm a bit more evolved now and might find it better... but the point of those kind of book is to get someone to re-evaluate their interactions. If it fails to do that with the ones that need it most, it's pretty much useless. I could probably read it and get something out of it now... when I no longer need it.

[HeartIsAching]

Just a note (and perhaps a word of caution): Should we really be diagnosing our fellow posters here? Isn't that a bit risky?

That's not a diagnosis. That's an observation based on what he's said. OP even tried to slant it his way so we wouldn't see it that way, but it's fairly obvious.

[Cerby]

As I said, I didn't call the book rubbish. Just that its not for everyone and not nearly as helpful and the "self-help" gurus would like you to think. Here's the irrefutable logic: if the book was so good and the information so valuable, then it *wouldn't* continue to sell so many copies. The material in it, by now (the book is decades old, after all), would be a regular part of everyone's "relationship training" (just like how everyone now uses social media to connect, noone buys books about this), and the principles from these books would be integrated into society and its expectations of how healthy relationships work. It would probably be part of a regular school curriculum on 'human dynamics' or something like. Humans adopt what actually *works*. By works I mean = gets results.

I'm bored at work, so I'm going to push this a bit...You're logic is flawed. Knowledge obtained through learning is not passed down or inherited, we're not talking about evolution here. If your reasoning rang true then it would be reflective of all knowledge. Everyone isn't a doctor just because there are 40 000 doctors in the US/Canada who have been trained. Educated people are educated through learning, not through being around someone else who is educated. 350 million people in North America, 7 Million copies of a single book, each read on average probably once, makes a whopping 2% of total population to purchase/read it (and that is likely an optimistic number of people who read it, many purchase and shelve books with "intent to read"). That knowledge doesn't just bleed to the other 98%, people aren't learning because they might know someone who read a book.

Principals of good relationships are most definitely integrated into society - for those willing to take the time to understand them and are interested in mutual happiness. This book is just one of many that probably make a minor contribution to educating people on the fundamentals of good communication. If relationships were as easy as just reading a book and understanding, then this forum wouldn't need to exist. The book continues to sell because people continue to believe it works, and therefore buy it. There are many other books that haven't sold well at all that have the same or better content, it depends largely on the person and the situation (as you've already stated). If someone is dead set on finding ways to be a better person, the content of the book means far less than the persons intentions while reading it.

I respect your opinions, but do feel the need to defend this one as I do reflect on its content when I am in dispute with my girlfriend, and what I have learned from it has paved the way to smooth resolutions.

*Added - We've gone quite far off topic, I don't even know if the OP will come back as he wasn't hearing validation that his problem wasn't his fault. But I doubt our debate will help him as I don't think he will read any of the books listed in the thread anyways.