Need a Man's opinion

[suzyr7]

Hi Guys,

I need to know what to do or not do and it's a little complicated.

I have been in a year long friendship with a man who I have certainly developed feelings for. I am 44 and he is 50. He travels a lot for work so our friendship has basically developed through email. He invited me for a afternoon on his boat back in August. We had a great time and talked a great deal (we talked about everything and what struck me the most was that he admitted to being a mess since his divorce 4 years earlier and that he wasn't a good catch) - when we returned it was getting late so I went home and no good night kisses were exchanged (which was fine, it was still a great time with a nice friend and besides he already told me he was a mess).

Shortly after that he went out of town again and we continued our email friendship. We would email at least once a day and sometimes up to 15 times a day if we hit a good subject. Anyway, he would come into town and go out of town quite a bit - although here is where he owns his home. About 2 months after the boat ride he was away and I could tell by his tone not in a very good way. He seemed depressed and agitated and lonely. He asked if I would gather his mail and send it to him...when I sent his mail I also included a little care package, cookies, candy, gum, mints, sunscreen, antibacterial wipes (he was in a hurricane zone) to cheer him up and remind him he was cared about. I didn't include a note or anything just kept it casual. He adored the care package!

When he returned home he called me and asked me to come over and have a steak with him. He cooked and said it was in appreciation for the nice things I do for him. At that point, we became better friends, talked periodically on the phone and had dinners at his place, cooked by him every so often. We had great conversations and really enjoyed each other. There was absolutely no kissing (just a hug when I left for home) - just two people sharing and getting to know each other. I continued to send him his mail and little treats whenever he was away from home and we continued to email just about everyday. We also text messaged and spoke on the phone every now and then. The nights of the debates and the election we texted back and forth the entire time. (I voted obama he voted mccain but it didn't matter we had a great time) For Christmas I bought him a candle, a book and a paper weight with his initials. I spent about $35. Now, I must say I am falling for him but I don't want to scare him off because I value the friendship so i didn't go overboard. He did though, he bought me a $50 gift card to the clothing store I shop at and some sandals, the sandals were $76 (the reason I know is because i had to exchange them for a different size). He also sent a fruit basket to my place of work for me and my coworkers to enjoy. We continued the email, the care packages, the steak dinners, the texting, the phone calls.

In January he asked me to help him write a letter for his job, we worked on it together through email as he was away on business. In Feb he invited me for a dinner out - a place we went on the boat that I had liked. That night after dinner we had drinks and then went to listen to a band and drank some more. We ended up spending the night together and the next day I was covered in hickies! Now mind you I love him so it didn't bother me one bit. I left in the a.m. and noticed that he had laid a towel in the driver side of my car because we had left the sunroof open during the night (he doesn't sleep well, has some depression issues or something like that so he had gotten up to get a lighter out of my car in the middle of the night). We had a great time but we did not make love because he could not get an erection and he wouldn't let me touch him there. As I said, I love him, so just being with him was thrilling for me and I loved every minute of it. When I left he asked when I was coming back. I returned later and he wanted me to get back in bed and lay down with him. I couldn't I had a cleaning job to go to and a raging headache. He was leaving for Lauderdale the next day anyway so we kissed goodbye.

The emails and phone calls got flirty after that and we seemed to be more like gf and bf now. I called him once every other day when I got off work and if he didn't answer he called me back right away. We still emailed good mornings to each other. I didn't get pushy about what was going on with us because I just thought it was evolving and didn't need any questions asked. He was using sexy little sweet nicknames now and talking about a do over when he returned home. In a joking phone call while flirting and making suggestions about the do over the date of my next period came up. A week later he told me that he was probably going to be home the weekend of the 28th - the weekend my period starts. I laughed it off saying I just wanted to his face anyway but that he had a little mean streak (kiddingly). I collected his mail to send to him and his cable bill was there and not sealed. I looked at it and the weekend that he told me his trip home would be the 28th he had rented porn. I'm not a prude I just found it interesting. I never told him I saw the mail. Everything was fine for these three weeks.

The week before he was expected home he seemed agitated and was complaining about clients and slow business and no money coming in and such and then he backed way off....he hardly emailed unless responding and by the end of week was not answering my calls at all. On the 27th I went by his house to check on it thinking he would arrive the next day. He was there! I called him and his phone was off so I left a message that I was there and happy to see him home but that I wasn't going to knock because he may be sleeping (it's a 10 hour drive for him).

The next day he never called and around 5:30 pm I couldn't take it anymore so I went to his house and knocked on the door. He didn't answer. I called and he didn't answer. I called and knocked once more and left a message that I was confused and was he mad at me or something. I left and called once more. This time he texted me saying "I just want to be alone please" I said I will do that for you but I need to know if you are mad at me about something? he replied "not mad just worn out, please understand" I said I'm trying, I was just excited to see your face. That was the last I heard from him all weekend.

I didn't contact him again until Monday morning and I just sent an email saying good morning in the subject and nothing in the body just in case he wasn't opening email. Several hours later he came to get his mail at his box inside where I work and when I asked "how are you" concerned yet happy to see him - he said without looking at me, "I started dating an exgf in lauderdale, that's what I was wanting to talk to you about". I said oh, and felt my face turn red....he then asked if he had more mail and I went and got his mail handed it to him and then he just turned and left. Needless to say I am crushed - not only did I lose a man I deep inside love but I also lost my best friend. Why would he cut the friendship too? We only had one night of intimacy and we couldn't even make love, we could have returned to friends very easily. Why did he say he was wanting to talk to me...he was ignoring me? I'm not even convinced there is an exgf because if the part about wanting to talk to me was a lie why should I believe any of it? Would a man throw away a great friendship just because he got cold feet about having to have a do over? Would a man throw it all away because he was too afraid that he wouldn't be able to perform?

Guys, I need your help here. I haven't heard anything from him at all, and I haven't contacted him because at this point I am humilated. Could he have just decided that I wasn't that important to him? Would he have thrown out a budding new relationship for an old one that didn't work? Is saying that there's an exgf meant to prove he can have intercourse just not with me? I never made him feel uncomfortable about it, believe me I was thrilled to just be there. He once told me that "sometimes you meet people in life that you just can't live without and you're one of them".... I'm very confused. Should I just never ever try to contact him again? Tell me what you all make of this?
Suzy

[Lite]

Yes he would, lots of people do this. Just because you felt a huge connection and valued it, doesn't mean that he valued it. Or she.

But basically he did it because of his issues, he already said he was a mess, not because of you. You're reacting in the manner you are because of your issues, and feeling abandoned.

And, it sucks, you probably won't ever get closure from him. So, you just need to grab yourself by the neck, shake yourself until you snap out of it, and decide to be thankful that you apparently dodged a very bad bullet.

[suzyr7]

Thanks so much and bless your heart for enduring my post.
Just curious....why would a 50 year old man give a woman hickies? Any thoughts?

[carl1222]

This is a tough one ... what part is related to his new involvement with his ex, what part is related to his inability to get an erection that he wanted.

You two need to talk frankly! Some men lose their ability to get erect even as early as 50 for a variety of medical reasons (diabetes, circulatory problems) ... the good news is that there are very effective medications to overcome it. Men are very fragile about their ability to "perform" with someone they are excited by (i.e the hickies) and his "failure" alone may explain some things like why he is afraid to try again. The obvious solution is for him to go to his doctor and get a prescription for the little blue pill so he will be packing wood again when he is excited instead of overcooked pasta!

But you also need to know how his relationship with his ex affects what is going on.

Carl.

[suzyr7]

Thanks Carl.....bless your heart also for enduring my long post! (It needed to be that long because there are elements that are crucial, like the depression and of course the erection issues)
There is something about this whole thing that just isn't ringing true - we were friends and he's told me quite a bit about himself, his former jobs, his current job, his family, his ex-wife and his children (they are estranged) and he has never ever mentioned an ex-gf before. We have talked pretty frankly about a lot of things and some weren't always pretty, I don't think he would have withheld pining for an ex-gf. My intuition just keeps telling me that there isn't an ex-gf - it just doesn't add up.

I really really wish he would talk to me but I don't think he's going to...he wouldn't even open his door, answer his phone or look at me. He was the one who has been talking up a do-over and then he gets home and he hates me without reason. If he did rekindle an old flame, why hate me? It just doesn't make sense.
I have not tried to contact him at all since my initial attempts.

In this year that we have been forming a friendship, I have sincerely grown to love him. I know, in my heart, that he cares about me a great deal and respects me. I also know that he was glad that we ended up in bed and I know that despite the lack of intercourse he was pleased with what transpired.
If he's not able or unwilling to talk to me my hands are tied and I don't know where to go from here - if anywhere.

[vashti]

(we talked about everything and what struck me the most was that he admitted to being a mess since his divorce 4 years earlier and that he wasn't a good catch) -

I have never heard of anyone saying this when it wasn't true. Next time someone tells you they are messed up and a bad catch, believe them my friend. It will save you a lot of misery,.

[denfor25]

Hi suzy, I fill sorry for you…. but vashti is right, for a man, admitting that “he is a mess” and “not a good catch”, is a big deal, and indication that he has a problem… a man can have a beer stomach, bad breath, yellow teeth and still honestly believe he is a best catch in a see, that is why man is a man… the ones thinking otherwise are "broken men" and should be approached with care.

Your friend may have a condition called PTSD as result of psychological trauma in last relationship or even earlier in childhood, there plenty of info on that, here for instance [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_trauma[/url]
periodic depressions, agitation as you described are indication of something going on with him…
regarding the break event that you described and unsure about why he stopped communication with you, please note there could happen “a trigger event" (trauma remainder) for him, that could or could not be related to relationship between you two; and cause sudden anxiety, depression, withdrawing from others, panic attacks and other symptoms.

Actually, he may still like you, and “logically” he may like to be your friend, but the power of his problem can be beyond his will… A statement of “ex-girlfried” is likely to be a lie, just a seemingly good explanation why he stopped seeing you…

Do not consider person with PTSD as psyco or something like that, it can happen to anybody, for instance, sometimes people surviving a car crash are scared to drive or having panic attack when seeing a car; PTSD is mostly reversible, understanding a problem, help and support helps a lot.

Suzy, please understand than in no way can I pose as a psychologist, or even be sure if my analysis is correct, it is not my field; but I would encourage you to talk to a professional knowledgeable in PTSD or related field, for the sake of understanding what happened, and for your own sake – this “crashing” experience may hunt you for the rest of your life…. if you are not ready for that, some reading may help you, since knowledge IS power…
Denfor25

[suzyr7]

Thanks Vashti.
You are very right about that, I guess I didn't heed the warning because we were not romantically involved when he said it, we were just friends. The dismantling of the friendship along with not being able to talk to me and just tell me he didn't want to carry on romantically is what has really gotten me confused. Even if there is an ex-gf in south florida it really shouldn't prevent him from giving me the respect I deserve and earned after all this time. I will never understand that.

[Toby]

Poor You - I cann't understand why someone would just shut off like that. He owes you a proper reason and a chat.

You'll find that his time away probably put him in the arms of his ex and ultimately because she was closer to reach you drifted away.

[suzyr7]

Hi Den,
You bring up a lot of things in your post that I had not even considered. His depression is sometimes very evident but I have never considered anxiety or panic. You are right that these things can cause people to behave very irrationally. Thanks also for the term "broken men". I have had to remind myself almost everyday that he was messed up when I found him.

I have no way of knowing whether there is an ex-gf involved or not (considering he stated that she is in lauderdale far away from where I'm at) - it just didn't ring true because he had told me so much about his childhood, past jobs, ex-wife and children (they are estranged) and I have never heard of an ex-gf that had any profound effect on him. Also, when he threw this bomb at me he did so in such a callous way and would not look at me - we have always treated each other with respect and sweetness even if what we had to say was not necessarily pretty.

I think that there were a lot of times when I made him happy and I know there were a lot of times when he would go out of his way to make me happy - I just wish he didn't throw that all away. I'm sad that he couldn't just tell me, I thought he trusted me more than that. I'm sad that I may never speak to him again - I'm sad that the way he pulled away he made it so final.

Suzy

[denfor25]

Poor You - I cann't understand why someone would just shut off like that. He owes you a proper reason and a chat.

You'll find that his time away probably put him in the arms of his ex and ultimately because she was closer to reach you drifted away.

toby,
i bet he lied about getting back with ex, see original post "...he said without looking at me, "I started dating an exgf in lauderdale, that's what I was wanting to talk to you about"...";
because this move was too much out of context, it is incoherent lie, quick find (he did not expect to run into Suzy that day), just to justify to her why he is out; and he could not look at her when he lied...

[denfor25]

.... these things can cause people to behave very irrationally. .....
I'm sad that I may never speak to him again - I'm sad that the way he pulled away he made it so final. Suzy

Suzy,
That is the trick with those damn “triggers” that a crisis can hit any time for no apparent for outsiders reason; leaving you guessing whether you did something wrong; and that constant thinking and reflecting “did I do something wrong???” can eat you alive…
Did you noticed in the movies shrinks always saying like “do you think it was your fault?”; or “it is not your fault!”; it might be correct conceptually but practically advice “do not feel that it is your fault” is pretty stupid since it is hard for a human to control emotions directly; instead, it might be better to think about something more truthful, such as trying to understand specifics of why a person may do such a thing; motivation, guts and soul of what happening inside of that brain; find what could be that trigger that happen to him; that is why I suggested to read some literature and educate yourself.

I can closely relate to your experience since I manage to get myself into similar story once when I was young , I got romantically involved with my 1st GF, she asked me one day “what do you find in me?” and I said: “I like you and I started to get attracted to woman more and more, and eventually I guess I want to have a family because time is running out”; and then she said, with great deal of irony: “ye, right, you find a right one for this shot”, or something like that… and then I asked, confused: “what do you mean?”; she said some joke and left me wondering…

Anyway, it was not long until things started to uncover. She turned out to be a hidden alcoholic and taking antidepressants; she would hide things around and take them as something happen; she could not take physiological pressure of life’s annoying mishaps as other people manage. Turned out, she married very young (18 or 19 – so stupid!!!), got pregnant in a few months but her husband forced (???) her to perform an abortion; she did so secretly from her relatives including mother (she was devastated when find out, she could have a grandson); in a week or so he convinced her to resume sex (!!!) and he did not accept the safe one (and she was young and stupid!!!); they went to hiking trip to mountains 3 weeks after abortion (!!!), she got miscarriage, had to be evacuated from mountains but only got to hospital in about 24 hours after first symptoms; and she got infected and became infertile; and then he divorced her in few months; and that way, seemingly, her hope for happy family life DISSAPIED… she managed to get married once more, but that lasted only 2 month since a guy turned out to be not after her, but after the condo she inherited from her grandma (sic!!!), and she became crashed even more. This whole thing was so stupid!!! She basically, ruined her life in 6 months of 1st marriage! She started drinking around that time, too.

And so her phobia became “rejection by a man” and “missing happy family life like others have”.
Anyway, do you know what her trigger was? You would never guess!!!
She could look at the picture of happy family (or meet a happy family), and start crying; get all depressed and get drank to shut the feelings down!!! She could not control it; it was stronger then her…

Man, I could not believe it when I found out… The scary thing, she denied to be drinking while being drank (!!!) and insisted she did not feel well or something! She would rather lie in my face then admit it…
I realized then that got myself into deep one and had to bail out; the problem was that it would be one more crash for her; she was so sensitive at times that I became to afraid if I leave her she would commit suicide (and I could not take that on my conscience) and so I decided to pose gradually as a jerk to ease her feelings; that was going well for a month or so; she got increasingly irritated with me; then one day I stayed home and managed to find and read her diary (not proud, but desperate time calls for desperate measures) and find out she was lying to me all over; when she got home, I accused her of some things she lied to me about; she asked: “how did you find out?” and I said straight: “I read you diary!” and she threw me out! Man, was I happy and liberated that my plan worked and I am free again and I got myself out of this whole mess!!!

Then the hard reality hit me in a day or 2, that by a plan “posing like a jerk to get her to threw me out” rather then “I left her”, I made things easier for her and harder for me; you see, I felt sorry for her ruining her life is 1st marriage but I had to pose as ignorant jerk, as result I was half dead for 3 months but eventually got over it… I still believe I did the right thing though…

So 3 lessons I got from this story:
1. Do not merry while young. IMHO, < 24 is too young! I do not know even one happy family that married < 24! People change too much below that age. IMHO, after college is optimum.
2. IF somebody telling you he (she) is a mess, not just believe it, but take IMMEDIATE action and run, run, run!!! (you see, Vashti was not around to advice me , so I had to learn it on my own skin)
3. Great practical lesson in physiology.

[IndiReloaded]

Whose thread is this again? Suzy's or Den's?

Anyway, doll, be very wary of people whose early words are "I'm a mess". At minimum, they have low self-esteem and at best, they really are a mess. Vash already said it, but it is worth repeating.

Sounds to me like he's just covering his butt now for being an ass later.

What kind of boat does he have?

[suzyr7]

Indi,

The boat....well of course, the boat is a donzi go fast boat (a penis extension as some would say)....again, a telling sign maybe?. He once admitted that he was trying to find happiness through things and that it just doesn't work. I told him then that it's not the toys that make you happy, it's who you're sharing them with. We had conversations like that and it felt like he trusted me.

[IndiReloaded]

I'm into sailboats, is why I asked.

As for the rest, hold on to your heart for now, doll. This guy sounds dicey, but you already know this.