Desperately need some advice

[greeneyes8]

Hi,
I am 28 years old and have been married for 2 years. Though we have been together for 14 years and have two children. I have a male friend that I have very, very strong feelings for and the feelings are returned. Heres the story. We worked together for almost 3 years until I quit in Arpil of 07. We got along great, worked together everyday and he became someone that I could just talk to, about anything. I was pregnant at one point and he was really helpful, brought me breakfast etc. even though I was a super crabby pregnant lady He unfortunately was more helpful than my husband at the time. Myself and all my coworkers were on yahoo IM and he was too. My husband has a huge case of jealousy and logged onto my messenger one day and saw a conversation between the two of us which my the way was in no way inappropriate it was just friendly. We were making fun of another co-worker but my husband freaked out. Which he has done in the past even about nothing so I wasnt suprised. He accused me of cheating on him with the guy etc. Even threatened to leave me. So I ended up quitting soon after and so did the guy. We didnt talk to each other for months but one day I sent him a funny email forward and he responded back. That lead to us still talking today a year and a half later which my husband doesnt know. We were text messaging back and forth about a month and a half ago and our normal friendly convo turned into something else. Somehow we both admitted that we had feelings for each other and always had. At the same time me and my husband were having issues and we had decided that we were splitting up. Me and the friend went to lunch one day and one thing led to another and we slept together. I can honestly say it was great. It was a bit awkward at first because we were friends and had never even gave each other a hug before that and I have only had sex with one person, my husband. I think about him constantly we talk everyday, and I really miss him. I know I am a cheater, bottom line because my husband decided to not leave. Its not just a crush. I have genuine feelings for him. Advice???

[Dasein]

So basically you have been seeing your husband since age 14 and you have 2 kids and been married for 2 years? Is this right?

Sounds to me like you never got to experience life. You are probably looking for ways out. However you have a duty to your children..remember them? When you become a parent you give up the right to be selfish and only think of you.

I think you are probably romanticising this situation. I mean how would this guy like to take care of your kids and play Daddy? Have you thought of that?

BTW have you tried counselling with your husband?

[Lite]

Basically you're attracted to a man who has no actual investment in your life and your daily stresses. He's a pseudo friend that you're attracted to because of whatever reason feeling disconnected from your husband. You know, the guy you married for better or worse? Pretty much you either need to break things off with this guy, friends and all, get counseling to save your marriage, or do what's right by your husband by leaving him, filing for divorce, and explain to your children that you ****ed up and don't love their father anymore.

The trick is, you can only truly leave a relationship for your own needs. Not for someone else who is perceived to be better.

I'm skipping a few steps in what you're going through, but here's how it breaks out:

You leave your husband and hurt everyone up front.
You cheat on your husband and hurt everyone behind their backs and force them to deal with your feelings of guilt over it and the stresses it causes the relationship with your husband and that of you with your children but stay married.
Or, you cheat on your husband, hurt everyone behind their backs, forcing them to deal with your feelings of guilt etc... Then you rape your husband for as much child support and alimony (if applicable) as possible because you're angry at him for being emotionally absent from the marriage and use the kids as leverage against him.

The basic short steps here are: End the new relationship (as that is what it is) and get counseling. End the new relationship and get a divorce. Encourage the new relationship and question whether or not you're fully capable of being faithful ever again.

Now, me? I've been the hybrid between some of these, so I'm not just talking out of my ass or being judgmental. I've cheated emotionally, asked to go to counseling, was denied, cheated physically, filed for divorce, and still went through all of the emotional trauma involved with the divorce anyway.

Basically there's no way around the emotional trauma of a divorce. It's the death of a relationship with someone you had planned on spending your life with. But, you've pretty much justified your husband's fears and paranoia with your behavior. Rather than stand your ground, suggest he get help/counseling about his insecurities, you claimed to cave to his demands, and then did it behind his back anyway. He has trust issues, and you have boundary issues. Probably a larger part of problems in your marriage, and this is how it is manifesting. Get some therapy books, get some counseling for yourself, get some counseling for your husband, get some counseling for the both of you jointly. You're not the first person to go through this, and in the end you're the one who ends up being the ass either way, even if your friends don't truly know it.

I've been there, it's important for your own personal well being that you stop and go get help. Find a priest, find a support group, find a therapist, find some books, find something. But none of us can really help you with much until you do the first steps of helping yourself. Which is deciding on what course of action you're going to pursue.

Pardon my harsh language, but it basically reflects what I feel about myself and my decisionmaking processes when I was faced with a similar situation and pursued the wrong routes. There's a rather extreme lack of reference point when you're really hurting inside a relationship that you're supposed to be committed to.

[Mish]

I know I am a cheater, bottom line because my husband decided to not leave. Its not just a crush. I have genuine feelings for him. Advice???

Well, you've landed into a big mess mostly of your own making. There's no easy way out of this and any solution will have it's downs.

But in summary, you can either stay with your jealous husband and either hold what happened in secret while your conscience eats you up from the inside or reveal to him what happened and get ready for punishment. Or you can leave your husband for this other guy who may end up just like your husband once you get closer to him. Or you can just leave and be a single mum. The unfortunate thing is none of the above options will be best for your children, something you should've had in mind every step of the way.

[IndiReloaded]

Lite is right (ha). I hope you take her post seriously.

All I can add, is that most men aren't the emotionless rocks they are often made out to be, but they are often singleminded & clueless. Until you clearly tell them there's a problem & suggest a solution they will just blithely carry on assuming all is well in your world.

Your husband doesn't actually sound bad. He sounds *busy* taking care of his responsibility to his wife and family. Meaning he was probably working his ass off while you were busy having an emotional affair with this other guy.

The only other thing I can add for you is that 'soulmate' feeling you think you are experiencing with this other guy is nothing more than hormonal programming. Read some of the other recent threads on this. You are actually, biologically programmed to start looking at other guys once your husband gets you pregnant & doesn't have as much time to smooth your emotional feathers. This becomes especially problematic when you are spending so much time with a man other than your husband. Females actually start making 'attraction hormones' when they are near or touch (!) another guy.

I'm not kidding about this. The science (MRI studies) backs this up.

Guys, do NOT let your women hug other guys. Sounds archaic, but unless she is a completely reasonable gal (and mbe not even then) just don't let it happen.

Gals (and moms): if you want to protect yourself from getting too attracted to guys, DON'T let them touch you. Even a 'harmless' hug will start making you all lovie-dovie. Know why players use 'kino'--that's why.

My advice is to stop interacting with this other guy completely. He's not your (or your husband's) friend. Make up with your decent husband. Get counselling to improve communication. Raise happy, healthy children in a stable, two-parent home.

[carl1222]

Indi ... what's "kino?" ... That's a new one on me.

Carl.

[IndiReloaded]

LOL, its something I learned here, actually. In a nutshell, its guys touching gals to increase the girls interest. What's interesting is that guys have known this works well before the science caught on.

Here's a link:

[url]http://www.fastseduction.com/guide/02_How_to_Get_Started/kino.shtml[/url]

Oh, and the obvious conclusion for guys currently in relationships is: hug your women often. This is especially effective if you do this while they are emotionally distraught & you just *listen*.

[carl1222]

LOL, its something I learned here, actually. In a nutshell, its guys touching gals to increase the girls interest. What's interesting is that guys have known this works well before the science caught on.

Here's a link:

[url]http://www.fastseduction.com/guide/02_How_to_Get_Started/kino.shtml[/url]

Oh, and the obvious conclusion for guys currently in relationships is: hug your women often. This is especially effective if you do this while they are emotionally distraught & you just *listen*.

Men never listen, Indi ... don't you know that? Hahahaha

I'm a little hard of hearing in one ear (punctured eardrum in childhood), and when I said "what? I didn't catch that" I had a girlfriend a while back who answered ... "you don't listen!!!" Maybe that's part of the reason she's an ex!

Carl.

[Dasein]

Indi I hate to say this but love isn't hormonal programming or just pure biology. Maybe lust is but not love. People can do studies on people doing studies but I just don't buy it.

..and...if it were purely chemicals in the brain etc then why don't we have a cure to the poor lovelorn people that come to LF?

[IndiReloaded]

The same reason ppl still died of tuberculosis in the 1950s. A cure wasn't readily available and education on the subject was poor.

You don't have to buy it, D. Anymore than you have to believe that antibiotics will eliminate a bacterial infection.

In fact, not too long ago, ppl thought physicians were crazy for suggesting that ulcers could be treated this way. I actually went to meetings where ppl laughed at the idea.

They aren't laughing now. Read more, "buy" less.

[carl1222]

Indi I hate to say this but love isn't hormonal programming or just pure biology. Maybe lust is but not love. People can do studies on people doing studies but I just don't buy it.

..and...if it were purely chemicals in the brain etc then why don't we have a cure to the poor lovelorn people that come to LF?

Indi tends to be a bit hung up on the evolutionary biology of love, Dasein ... and he may be somewhat right.

But I agree with you, Dasien, that humans, with their capacity for rational thought, often add and embellish biology to the point where the humanity subsumes the biology.

Take for example another essential drive ... hunger. Without hunger, we would starve a few days after our birth. Without hunger, eating would become unimportant.

Yet hunger we have, and we could easily satisfy this drive by digging under a rock for grubs, or the primative but more advanced method of a few bowls of plain beans and rice a day with the occasional green veggie for vitamins.

But we don't.

We scour the world for prime ingredients and spices, and culture the most satisfying foods ... uniquely human. We learn how to make food delicious. We establish culinary schools, and honor the best chefs. We build institutions around food called restaurants ... and often insist that that there be more than just a full belly for it to be enjoyable. We plan holidays around food. We build dates around food (combining the two drives). We love food. Why bother? When grubs are enough to satisfy the evolutionary/natural selection drive??? Because we are human!!

So equating love with sexual attraction is like equating enjoying a fine meal in a great ambiance with eating a handful of grubs. With all respect, Indi ... you are sooo wrong on this one, you must know that.

Carl.

[Dasein]

Oh hang on..this is implying that I am ignorant in these comparisons which I am most certainly not.

I am just disagreeing with you. Many scientists on a daily basis come up with new and interesting research and hypothesis..but it doesn't make all of them right. It is only research at this stage.

Btw I read plenty...even the links that you gave.

[IndiReloaded]

LOL, yes Carl, I'm taking a deliberate position.

However, a statement like "why do we do X?" Answer: "b/c we are human" doesn't lend itself to further study. Its almost as bad as "b/c God made us that way". I don't find that response particularly useful.

So, as to your point about food. My explanation? B/c humans who learned to cook better & healthier food survived and were healthier. They lived to reproduce and their offspring survived better. Some caveman sometime probably found that their venison tasted better after the local forest fire. The side benefit that some fraction of the clan didn't die from a parasitic infection probably made it all the better.

Its like asking why does sex feel good? It doesn't need to. But it sure does make it more likely that more babies get born.

Why does good food taste better? B/c its healthier for us & our children are more likely to survive. I think the cooking/spice thing must be uniquely human, but lots of animals wash their food.

As for junk food (which is bad for us & someone will mention it): its a relatively recent development (evolutionarily). But we like it b/c foods which contain high fat has more energy. And the fatter a female, the more milk she will make for her offspring.

But no, I don't think we are solely driven by evolution. Our forebrains can overrule our more basic instincts. And thank goodness for it. But when ppl start to do things ONLY listening to their instincts, like the OP who claims to be experiencing 'soulmate love', I'm just cautioning them that their forebrain may be temporarily overridden by that old, VERY persuasive hindbrain.

And a lot of posters who come on here regret having temporarily lost their forebrain.

[Lite]

Indi I hate to say this but love isn't hormonal programming or just pure biology.

Early stages of love/relationship building are pretty much nothing more than your brain dumping huge amounts of chemicals into your body. Basic fact of physiology. It's after those chemicals wear off, and the relationship doesn't feel "new" anymore that you can truly tell if you love someone or not. Up until then it's a chemical addiction that the person triggers.

This is why people can have hugely intense romances that burn out, because when all is said and done, the chemical reactions are gone and you literally have nothing left as a basis for a relationship.

I don't know that I agree with the hugging thing. There's a difference between attraction and love. Love involves a level of respect, trust, and honor in the other person.

[IndiReloaded]

I don't know that I agree with the hugging thing. There's a difference between attraction and love. Love involves a level of respect, trust, and honor in the other person.

Sorry if I was unclear about this. I meant it as a warning in NEW relationships where a gal doesn't want to get too attached too soon to a guy. Apparently, repeated physical contact (like hugs) make it much more likely a girl will feel 'love' (i.e. hop in the sac) than if she holds herself more reserved.