Is it the biological clock?

[plexus]

I recently broke up with my partner after a little over a year. It is really sad for me and I am sure for her too. From my perspective we had a major communication issue. It started in about month three. I am 43 and she is 41. We went on a trip after two months and on that trip I brought up to a friend an experience i had with a woman who after 1 month told me she had a 3 year plan to have a family. I felt this was too much pressure and the relationship quickly died. My partner was with me when I was having this discussion with my friend. My partner expressed hurt that I would talk about another relationship like this so openly and express such disdain for a woman and her want for a child. I told her it was just a conversation, that I had come to this far land to visit with my friend and we had shared a similar experience and were only talking about it. At this moment I realized my partner was not just ultimately wanting to have a child, as i was, but really wanted to have a child asap and that my comment hurt her more because of this.

From that moment things were not the same. I basically could not have a discussion with my partner around anything to do with our relationship without it turning sour fast. From my perspective, she would quickly shut me down, expressing pointed skepticism and critique for anything i said especially around my feelings, in general. There were always questions that were geared at defaming my feelings, finding fallacy with them. I was constantly inturrupted and shushed. i felt like my emotional voice had been taken away. I told her early on that this was a deal breaker for me. I explained clearly what the issue was, the dynamic and what would work better for me. But there was never any change from her.

We were on a trip recently where the same dynamic happened. She asked me if i was ok and i said i was. she proceeded to question me pointing out how what i say i feel and what i exhibit are inconsistent. That's fine, i can dea with that, but when I try and answer or explain, I get interrupted and shut down. To me it feels like she needs to walk away feeling like I am a liar. I have no voice in this situations. She says shes just asking questions to understand but how can one understand another person better if they wont let the person talk?

So i gave up. I walked away. I had had enough. We met back at the hotel. She wanted to get into it. I knew that if I did it would be more of the same. So not only would we be fighting but I would have to endure this kind of dynamic and be fighting to try and get my perspective and feelings across, ultimately to no avail. So i remained silent. This infuriated her. I hated doing this but i had to take care of myself. I did engage the conversation a few times and each time it just exploded! Like pouring gasoline on a fire. In the end we cut the trip short 2 days, took separate trains home and thats that.

I've been thinking about it and I am wondering if the underlying issue was her biological clock, as it were. From the first trip i mentioned where i talked to my friend about women's biological clocks, her desire to have a child escalated dramatically. she went from "i feel like you do, once we have a good relationship it would be great to have a child" to "i want to have a child now and the fact that I cant is making me very sad and angry". i also felt blamed for her not having a child because for me, I want to work on the relationship first. Once thats solid, then lets have a family. Remember she's 41. And she said it was only from about 40 that she felt so strongly about it, before that it wasnt so much an issue for her.

What got me thinking was that often when we'd argue about something, it would often end up on the topic of us not having a child. for example, i couldnt do a home reno on my house without her pointing out it was a sign she wouldnt have a child with me because it meant i wasnt going to move. even if we were arguing about something completely different, somehow the conversation would get to the baby issue, by her.

so i am wondering, maybe the issue wasnt just the communciation dynamic where-by i felt like she was shutting me down. maybe underlying that was her pain around not having a child, driving her motivation to cut me off. i am not sure what the reason would be because i told her many times that i wanted to work on the relationship first and a family second. so doing this is counter productive to the relationship and so we'd never get to having a child. why would someone be so counter productive?

a friend of mine says that he's convinced that its her biological clock causing the issues. that it wouldnt be an issue if i just would have a child with her. that, yes, its reasonable and responsible to work on the relationship first but if i was simply inclined to have a child with her, the issues would be significantly less. its a bit of a catch 22 then.

so moving forward, i am not sure what to do. how to handle this, with her or with someone else. i am 43 and i am likely to get involved with someone in the 35-45 range where the issue of a biological clock can be pretty critical. my friend says to either date someone who is a lot younger, someone with a child already or take my chances.

what say you?

[Enigmos]

the decision to have a child is non-negotiable. and, yes, certain individuals can get the "ticking" thing, both men and women. what most women don't realize is that the quality of our eggs begins to diminish in the late 20s; therefore, it is not uncommon to do ivf in one's 30s.

biology aside, you need to stay true to yourself and figure out what you want. once you figure that out, stick with it, and, before you invest any more feelings in an individual, find out what the other person's viewpoint is. if it is not in accordance with yours, break it off.

i know this sounds harsh, but i have done this exact scenario. i don't want kids, i won't date someone has has 'em, and i have the policy of, "if my mate changes his mind, i'll wish him good luck and break up."

good luck.

[plexus]

hi. no its not harsh, what you say. i do stand by my feelings about kids - how i feel hasnt changed from before i met this girl to now and i have been consistent in my message about it: i want to feel i am in a solid relationship before i have kids. and our relationship was not solid. i think for her, her feeling about having kids went from "i want to have kids" to "emergency! i need to have kids now!" i am sure she didnt see this coming either. she said it was only a few months before i met her that she started feeling this.

so thats kind of the confusing part, it wasnt like we were on obviously different pages here. it was more around the expectation of timing and qualifiers that makes it more of a grey area. but ultimately i think she couldnt trust what i was saying and never was able to get beyond that. and i am a person that needs my partner to trust me.

[IndiReloaded]

Well, let's say you did get her pregnant. What happens 10 years from now and your relationship is all but non-existent? I guess she's okay b/c she's got a child?

Regardless of your timing/ages, it is terribly irresponsible to bring a child into the world without a stable home/relationship. I am glad that you were able to listen to your doubts and not cave to her demands. Children aren't dolls or a pet that one gets b/c one simply wants one. Ideally, couples should have children only when they have something to offer the child. Not the other way around.

While I can sympathize w/her desire to have a child, you are right to expect you are more than a source of sperm. The fact that there is an age/clock issue doesn't change anything about what is required before bringing a child into the world. The only thing I would say is that you should take care not to drag out relationships that you don't think have a future, especially with women "with a mission" who could be spending their time with a more compatible partner.

[Mish]

I think she might have had some type of an urgency to have a child, but whatever that urgency was it was overshadowed by her abuse personality and need to bully you into submission instead of having an open and pragmatic conversation. Say good riddance to her and look for someone with a less domineering personality.

[plexus]

After thinking about everything that happened, I am less inclined to think the baby issue was the big issue. I think the big issue was a overall lack of trust and of doubt that she came into the relationship with. Most likely its mistrust and doubt about herself that she projected on the relationship and me. But whatever it was, it was profoundly overwhelming and permeated everything we did. I couldnt even do a small reno on my house without her feeling like it implied we'd never live together (because in her mind I was fixing up my house, i meant I didnt want to move). I just could not survive in that.

But i still love her. There were so many great things about us. I was never able to help her work through that.

[Gigabitch]

Um, how many times has this happened to you now? Just the two times, or is this what ends most of your relationships these days?

I think you should look at dating people that are the same age range as you emotionally. That would be 23. Why don't you give that a shot and then the biological clock thing won't be an issue?

[plexus]

wow gigabitch that was pretty harsh. and you are a moderator on here?

[Gigabitch]

I'm fair, but not interested in making people feel better about themselves. That's not what I do.

You've had at least two women show evidence of this problem with you. It's not unreasonable to expect a woman around 40 to want some confirmation that a relationship is headed in a family direction after being together for over a year. If you can't provide this, you should date much younger women, women who are looking for the same things you are.

I suspect those women are under 30. Over-30 women are looking or a commitment. You are clearly the wrong guy for them.

[plexus]

I am perfectly capable of making a commitment. My commitment includes a solid relationship, co-habitating and building a family, in that order. I will not jump over one to the other.

It makes sense you are confuse as this and my other problems were with the same woman. It was not two separate women.

[plexus]

I have made some important realization about my situation. Like many of you, I am struggling with the love I feel for the person I broke up with, the what could have been's and the what could be's. Some people find it easier to walk away. Others, like myself do not. This in itself could be contributing to the problem (for example, if I could have just walked away from our relationship last november when I saw all this starting, we both would have been better off). No sense crying over spilled milk.

So I started the thread on the topic of biological clocks. The reason was because children was a big issue for her and seemed to generate a lot of issues between us. It wasnt because I was saying no, but because I was bringing more conditions into it. Well, actually only 1 condition: that our relationship feel solid to me. That was it. But the problems between us still made the bulk of the relationship very challenging. I wondered if the underlying cause was her "biological clock" but now I dont think it was.

The only deal breaking issues for me were the dynamics in most of our problem solving conversations. The bottom line was that I would get upset in these conversations and we'd pretty much get no where with the problem. I have spent a lot of time now looking through this and trying to work out what went wrong. I know for her, she felt she was just talking fast, had a lot to say, would inturupt me (her feeling about this was, big deal) and she would express a lot of doubt, mistrust and animosity. At first I thought this is what was bothering me so much, but I realized that as these conversations started, I was good about providing perspective and trying to allay her fears. It wasnt until more into the conversations that they became a conflict and I felt the only way "out" was walk away, something I am not happy or comfortable about at all.

I realized what the issue was and this has helped me get better perspective on our break up. It wasnt about her technique, it was that even thought at a point in the conversation I was visibly and verbally hurt, she wouldnt stop. In fact, she was ramp it up. I would in fact verbally tell her, ok this is gotten to the point where i am really upset... but she would keep at it. To me this is abuse. If someone you care about tells you, or even if you can see that they are hurting by what you are doing, you have to stop. If you dont stop then you are just being abusive. It doesnt matter what it is.

I realized this today when I was thinking about how we were in another city that had bike rentals. I suggested we get a bike and she said she was not comfortable riding on the street. Later on we passed more rental bikes and I said we should ride to the old part of town. She said that she told me she doesnt want to ride on the streets and that me constantly asking her shows I am not listening or respecting her. Fair enough. I apologized and we moved on and I never brought it up. In fact it wasnt even a burning issue for me after that in any way. I realized that it doesnt matter how innate YOU might think an approach is, what should matters is what your PARTNER thinks about it and if they tell you its bothering them, stop. Otherwise you are just being abusive.

Then I began to, and still am working on, accepting and trying to understand that my partner was abusive in this way. I do have a bit of that victim thing going on where i wonder what it was about me that might have made them abusive, but I know thats something that comes along with having been abused. This thing between us has been going on for a year and happens i'd say every week or so, to varying degrees. I was trying to be flexible and to work with it, but now I am starting to see there was very little I could do to really change it.

I'd still like to think we could have made it work... but again thats just something I have to work out too. I just wanted to share this with you and also get it off my chest so thanks for reading.