Oh, of course I'm okay with you being Catholic! ...Wait, no sex at all?

[JohnPoe]

The title may be a bit misleading actually. Let me start from the beginning. Caution - thar be religious issues here.

I'm 20, she's 19. She's the Catholic one. I'm pretty much agnostic (i.e. It just isn't really a part of my life). She seems fine with that. Known each other for over a year and we've been in a comfortable relationship since last Christmas. I'm actually her first ever boyfriend, apparently. No, I don't want to have sex with her right now (not that it wouldn't be, erm, nice, it's just that it would be inap... ah, I'll just stop right there). I respect the fact that she probably wouldn't ever be on board with pre-marital sex. Fine, I can live with that. Religion is a big part of her life - her parents brought her up pretty devout, and on the whole I think that she has a pretty healthy attitude about it all (i.e. she examines what she is told for herself and doesn't just take what priests say at face value).

So none of that is a problem. What might be a problem is what I just learned today... evidently this "no birth control" thing extends to married couples, too. If you ain't having a baby, it's a no-no. Even sex during pregnancy and menstruation is seen as non-kosher! Now, I certainly wouldn't classify myself as a sexual deviant or anything, but I think that sex is an important part of any healthy long lasting relationship - and seeing as how I think this planet is overcrowded enough already, I don't want to have as many kids as I have instances of sexual intercourse! We talked about it a bit today, and I was a bit surprised to find out that she subscribed to the "every sperm is sacred" mentality. I briefly wondered how she would have reacted to the shocking revelation that (gasp!) I've masturbated before. I didn't broach that subject. And... I reluctantly respect whatever beliefs she has on the matter. I guess.

We sort of ended things with an awkward, but lighthearted impasse. Why worry about it right now, anyhow? Not like we're getting married any time soon. She's a girl I'm starting to really feel strongly about, though. She's beautiful, smart, ambitious (medical school!), she's got a great sense of humor, and I feel like she brings out the best in me. This is the first girl I think I've ever thought that maybe I might have some sort of future with... maybe... But I just don't see being happy in a sexless relationship. Part of me feels bad for feeling that way - but it just seems like something fundamental would be missing there. And all because some Pope says so...

Sigh. Hope the Catholics aren't right about everything, because if they are, I'm certainly going to hell. Is this something that a compromise can ever be reached on? Should I continue talking about this awkward thing at this early stage, lest we find out later that it is a deal breaker? Or should I just forget about it and try tackling it when the relationship is stronger?

[vashti]

Sorry to report that this is a BIG issue for all the non-Catholics I know that marry religious Catholics.

Also, I hope you won't mind being on-board with the religious stuff if you marry this girl and have kids.... they will certainly be raised Catholic.

[Mongoose]

It might be a bit early to start talking about potential problems if the two of you were to get married. At the minute just enjoy being with her. If things get more serious then the topic will probably have to come up, but she may have adjusted her views slightly by then. Don't leave it toooo long though, just in case it doesn't go the way you want it to. Best not to waste too much time flogging a dead horse.

[OrdosInfinity]

Even sex during pregnancy and menstruation is seen as non-kosher!

As someone who grew up under the auspices of Catholicism (in a priivate school for a few years and members of the family range from devout Catholic and Christian denomination to agnostic, like you) this is actually a misnomer as far as I know. Catholics often practice something called the rythm method which means you time sex so that it occurs when conception is least likely. Can't tell you how well that works (I'd imagine it is pretty iffy) but if they allow marital sex during this period then I imagine sex during pregnancy and menstruation is fine. I went to youth group where the youth counselor was big on this rythm method but when he got married he wound up getting his wife pregnant within the first month. I personally took this as a sort of divine joke that maybe it doesn't work all that well. In all seriousness, even as a Catholic I generally find rules against masturbation, birth control, homosexuality, etc to be bygones from the old times. They said the Earth was the center of the Universe for the longest time and I have no doubt when the science finally bears it out that the church will recognize the more carnal stuff too. Pope is human, after all, not infallible and there are no rules saying that a Catholic always has to agree with the Pope. That is not to say I make excuses or pick and choose and I would say that homosexual and bisexual people are still more than capable of fornication (sex without love, from what I understand) but most of this stuff is based off beliefs about the way the world worked at the time and we know that masturbation doesn't use up a limited pool of energy now.

Sounds like your girl does is strict, though, which could be tricky. The good news is she is going to medical school so she can shoulder the burden of kids. Bad news is it may not be something you want. You may want to sit her down when the time comes and have a serious conversation with her about her faith and what it will and won't allow. For example, since you are not a Catholic perhaps she wouldn't be opposed to you getting a vasectomy at some point (after freezing sperm for kids, if you want them, of course)? Explore the options and try to meet at the middle somewhere, if you can.

[AirbenderAang]

There is no reason not to plan towards the future. This girl has strong fundamental beliefs that you disagree with. These beliefs affect your current relationship and they would affect any future relationship you have with her. The longer you stay with her the more feelings you are likely both going to develop for each other. Staying with her is definitely a risk and breaking up with her is another risk. Try to be as conscious as you can of the risk you are taking. It sounds like you have a great relationship for now, but start thinking about what are the essential elements of a meaningful relationship for you. Also, what kind of relationship do you want right now.

[Boisdevie]

RUN AWAY. Find a normal person

[reeba]

I'm going to just reply with some random thoughts here:

if she is really that strict, she would not consider marrying you. To put it bluntly, why would she want to spend her life with an agnostic who is going to hell. Either she will have to make a 100% effort to convert you, or she wil have to live with the guilt knowing she let you go to hell.

if the rhythm method worked so well, why are traditional catholic families so large.

once she has a couple of kids she will change her mind about bc. Right now she has no grasp on reality/fincances/responsibility. The church doesn't raise those kids, nor pay the bills for those kids. And those kids will be in Catholic schools.

you are young and she has plans for many years of school. meaning many years of not wanting kids/risking having kids. you ready for that long wait?

[Regnent]

Well, personally, I'm not religious, and as far as I'm concerned, if you're not ready to have a kid (IE, having one doesn't bother you), keep it in your pants.

[smackie9]

Dude it's a deal breaker....you have to be compatible and that means having the same beliefs. It will not work so it's best to not have a relationship with her.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

"I just don't see being happy in a sexless relationship."

You are in a sexless relationship, and that is not going to change much once you are married. Ask IncognitoSir or go read some of his threads. He's probably the most miserable guy ever; for all intents and purposes, the guy has been castrated and you will be too if you continue. Apologize for wasting her time and dump this girl before you become any more attached to her emotionally. The longer you wait, the harder it will be on both of you. Tell her it's an incompatibility and she can blame you as much as she wants.

[girl68]

RUN AWAY. Find a normal person

She is normal she just has different beliefs there is nothing wrong with that. I agree though with everyone else, it's going to get worse in time. And yes, you should read up on IncognitoSir he married a catholic and he never gets laid, and he isn't happy at all about it.

[JohnPoe]

I appreciate everybody's input. I think that, certainly, I wouldn't want to get married as things are. And again, such a thing isn't even on the horizon. However, I'd hate to break off a relationship with such great chemistry just like that. I'm going to try and bring the subject up again in a non-confrontational way later, but don't really know what strategy I should take in that talk. I have a feeling it would be a bad idea to make her feel like she needs to decide between her beliefs and me (I'd almost certainly lose), but I can't help but wonder if there's a way to try and subtly get her to change her mind on the issue.

Is it a bad idea to even try and change somebody like that? Is it a bad idea to even bring it up again? Should I just let my feelings on the matter be clear and then let her have that conflict marinate in her head for awhile? Is the relationship really hopelessly doomed?

[girl68]

Don't try it's not your business to try. I *hate* when religious people spew their bullshit on me. In turn I hate people who spew their NON-religious bullshit on me. If I was curious I would ask, I didn't so leave me alone. Her views are hers and hers alone, do not change them don't even try if she was curuious about birth control she'd ask. Leave her religion alone.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

Is it a bad idea to even try and change somebody like that? Is it a bad idea to even bring it up again? Should I just let my feelings on the matter be clear and then let her have that conflict marinate in her head for awhile? Is the relationship really hopelessly doomed?

1 - Yes, even if she does stay with you, she will resent it forever.
2 - Not necessarily, but it is if you have the intention of changing her mind.
3 - Yes you should, but you know that you're really just putting pressure on her.
4 - Yes. If you choose to stay in the relationship, then your happiness certainly is doomed.

You guys have chemistry, so what. Lots of people do, and you'll find someone with just as much or better chemistry, and that shares similar beliefs about relationships and religion. Your fundamental beliefs do not match up, and no amount of chemistry is going to change that. Someone's beliefs are going to be compromised and it is going to be yours. Don't string her along and let her believe that you are interested in being celibate until marriage(you know you aren't), and that you're okay with her beliefs on this matter(again, you know you aren't). If you really want to try and flip things though, tell her that while you think the two of you would make a great couple, but sex is an integral part of a relationship to you, and you can't deny your sexual attraction to her until you get married. Tell her you love her, but it won't work this way(try to have tears in your eyes, if you can). This way you've cut the cord, but given her the option to stay if she chooses to consider sex before marriage.

READ INCOGNITOSIR'S THREADS! Exact same story; you don't want to be that guy. Just like his misery is his own fault, yours will be too. Just read the threads, they will give you more insight into your situation than anything anyone else can say.

[JohnPoe]

I looked into these threads everybody is talking about. Geez... I certainly don't ever want to be in Incognitosir's position. It just, ah, it just sucks that somebody as well adjusted and great and etc, etc as the girl I have feelings for would actually have this viewpoint on sex.

I guess that I knew as soon as I even thought about it that trying to change her in any way, no matter what, is pretty terrible in addition to being impossible. Heavy sigh.

I'll be completely honest with her on my feelings, and the relationship probably will either have some sort of magical savior, or it will (much more likely) not survive the week. Thanks for the advice everyone. Even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear, it was I needed to hear.