The elephant in the room.

[Ayame]

This is long. Be prepared. But its the whole story. Beginning til now. I'm 25 f... he's a 29 m

We were best friends for years. College. Work. Bar. vacations. Friendship became more. Friends became lovers. But we decided to keep it from our co-workers and our friends. Keeping it a secret made it even more special. We were the two people that you see that get along so well, you'd think we belonged together. We had both just come out of extremely heavy relationships.
Kissing him made my stomach flutter.
Talking with him made me laugh without a care.
He was my best friend, and my lover. I knew he wasn't ready yet, but it just came so naturally that it just became what it was.

This lasted for almost a year.

The strain of having a secret relationship took its toll.
At work we had to act like nothing had changed.
Our friends still viewed us as just buddies.
When guys would hit on me when we were out, it was awkward. Should he step in and say something? Should I expect him to? What would our friends say?

Then he started spending time with another girl.
A girl who we worked with. A girl who didn't know we were together. She got drunk and stayed at his house. And I became furious. He tried to explain that she stayed on the couch. That he has 5 roomates and they all saw her. But I was irate, and probably irrational.
She had called his phone before at 2 or 3 in the morning, and its not like she knew he had a girlfriend.
But after that night that she slept on his couch he told her that we were together. And she CONTINUED to call him and meet him out. Even after she knew about me.

And the story was out. All over work. How I broke up with him over her. How she didnt even like him and I was over reacting.
Him and I became distant. We argued. (we never used to argue. i mean never.)
I cried. We fought.
And I cried. and cried.
I felt like my best friend had died. Where we used to laugh, we just sat in silence. It was horrible at work. It was difficult for all of our friends. And then it made a turn for the worse, if it could even get any worse.
He started dating her.
Right in front of my face. He lied to me about it for weeks. I caught them in the hallways together. The little rooms where we would exchange kisses, I would see them standing in together. I was having a breakdown.

I went back to my ex. And never told him anything about my best friend and I being together. I figured it best since most people didnt know.

Then I had a lapse in judgement.
My (ex) best friend and I were starting to talk again because I had to act at work like nothing bothered me. Seeing them together was fine with me, when really it was killing me inside. We decided to keep a date we made to a wedding, months before the breakup. That night we danced, held hands, drank with old friends, and stayed together in a hotel room. And well... I'm sure you can figure out what happened.

Now here is where it gets crazy. This girl he is now with for barely even 3 months now, he won't even mention her name to me. He pretends as if I still dont know they are together. He doesnt bring her around all of our friends cause they all cant stand her.
We stay friendly, but there is a huge elephant in the room now. And we both know it.

She lands a job a few states away. And, he goes with her.
Yep... HE goes with her.
He told me she was only his ticket out of here, once again making it sound like it wasnt as serious as it was.
The night before he left, we met at our usual bar. And we played all our old songs, and drank our regular drinks. It had been months since we hung out like that.
He walked me to my car. And we shared a kiss. And i didnt want it to end. And I started to cry. And then he hugged me. And told me we'd see eachother again. And that I'd be happier this way. And then he drove away...
We hadn't seen or talked to eachother really in about 3 months, and I traveled to visit a mutaul friend for a concert. And he showed up. alone.
I had a hotel room, and we were all hanging out there. They wanted to go to another bar, and I decided it best that I didn't go. Since I now am back with my ex and happy about it. Although seeing my old flame sent chills down my spine. I missed him. It was clear that my feelings hadn't faded. I did what I though best, So I said good-bye and sent him on his way.
But he came back, saying he lost the people he was with and he didnt hae a car, and didnt knw hwo to get back to their house. It was raining, and I let him in...
WHY did he have to come back?
I tried to make it so we used dfferent blankets, or slept head to foot or ANYTHING to keep myself from giving in. But my efforts were wasted as son as he touched my face....

SO after that we didnt really talk much, he tried to contact me a few times, but I was so disgusted with what I had done to my boyfriend, and how I had gone against everything I had promised myself. That I ignored him for a while.
Then somehow, we started talking again. He was emailing me, texting me... whatever, and I was texting back. Actually lately we've been chatting like nothing has ever happened, about music, and work and whatever. But STILL, he will NOT mention her name. Not even mention her WITHOUT saying her name.
Like she doesnt exist.
And now I'm supposed to meet my mutual friend for a birthday celebration, and he might be coming. I asked him if it would be uncomfortable if I would go, and he said that it wasn't up to him what I did. And so I tried to pry a little more to see if he was bringing her, if I shoudl go or not. And for the first time in um... forever... he said her name.
"well, **** said she would go if we decided to drive all the way home, But she's not coming if we meet everyone half way, cause she doesnt know any of our friends..."

I dont know if I should go. i dont know if he wants me to. I dont know why it even matters. I dont know if he still thinks of me. If he still has feelings for me. Or if our long lost friendship is a lost cause. What should I do, or say? any suggestions, opinions?
Sorry this is so long. I just wanted to express the whole story, its the first time I'm seeking advice on the whole situation.

[vashti]

I think you should break up with your boyfriend. It is obvious you don't care about him the way you should.

[Ayame]

I think you should break up with your boyfriend. It is obvious you don't care about him the way you should.

The boyfriend is another story. And i think you're right. Maybe I dont care for him the way I should. But he doesnt care for me the way I need him to. And maybe right now, leaving him sounds like a good decision for me to make, but for him... it would be financially devestating. He would have no where to go, and no money to live. I couldnt do that to him. I do love him, but I guess I got sick of waiting around for him to step up. I just keep thinking that things will get better, but I'm not sure if they ever will. I mean the thing is that I know he loves me, and he's true blue. But there are a lot of areas where I dont feel he meets my needs.

Then I try to step back and tell myself, its probably my fault and he's worth giving it some time. He's a good man, and I probably don't deserve his love, and he probably doesnt deserve my generosity. But thats not really what I was trying to get out of this post. It was about my friendship with the said person in my last post.

i never said i was perfect. trust me im aware of my faults. and my dishonesty. But I dont think thats much different than most relationships.

[squirrley]

Thats definetly a whopper of a situation. I dont see why you cant go to the party? It shouldnt matter if he's there or not. You've already had relations with him once while with your boyfriend, no one has to tell you what you should do there. But you cant live your life or your decisions based on what HE'S doing. I'd be furious for his actions. Secret relationship or not, if you had something so special with this guy, how can you feel "ok' or feel good being around him?? He duped you, I know it hurts like hell. But it should say something about his character that he never talks about her, maybe he does it out of respect for you and knows it hurts you. But neither here nor there, this isnt someone I would want to try to hook up with again.

Id go to the party. Dont worry about him or her. Its not fair to your friend whose party it is if you dont go. If you feel you can maintain a friendship with him fine. But it appears when youre together things happen. I know you didnt post about your current relationship, but you should look at what your actions would do to him? How did you feel when you found out your best friend was with someone else? See, its just messed up. Did you go back to your x as a rebound?

Look towards your innerself for awhile. Obviously you still have tons of emotional (hate to use this term but baggage) for this guy and it hinders and lingers in your current relationship too. Theres a big ole elephant in that room too.

What exactly do you want out of this old best friend??? What kind of relationship?

[Ayame]

Thank you for the comment. And I know that you're making sense when you say that I should go without worrying about what he is doing. But fact being this friend was his friend first. And although we are close now, I wouldnt feel right adding to an uncomfortable situation. Thats just how I am.
And you would think that this whole thing is taking a toll on my current relationship, but fact being that I dont act any differently with my boyfriend. The whole thing happened while we were apart, and the "incident" that occurred was still while my ex and I were working things out.
A far as my best friend goes? To tell you the truth, I dont want anything from him, but to know that he hurt through this just like me. I want him to be sorry. And I want to believe him that he means it. Part of me knows the reason it may not have worked out between us is because I never really let go of my ex.
But mostly, what I want from my best friend, is for us to be able to talk about it, and get over it. And, well.. be friends again...
Is that impossible?

[vashti]

trust me im aware of my faults. and my dishonesty. But I dont think thats much different than most relationships.

I think it is quite a bit different than most relationships.

Anyway, you should get rid of the current boyfriend (or at least be honest about your cheating), and then you can do what you want without feeling guilty.

[squirrley]

They say EX'S are ex's for a reason, but I know from own experience I was able to maintain a friendship with someone I came to truly admire and loved too. He just wasnt ready to settle down, and I know I can talk to him at any given moment. Sometimes, you are better friends with some people than lovers. Even though the loving is good too.

I think we all rebound at somepoint in our lives too. We may not think we do and try to convince ourselves its not. Especially when youre still thinking of the other person.


He is the ONLY person that Ive ever dated and have been able to maintain a friendship with. Granted we dont ever see one another, which might pose as a problem for me(cause he's so damn hot), j/k. Im in love with my husband for a million reasons and friends with my past for a million reasons.

Ok so your mutual friend was his first, it shouldnt matter either way. Ive continued friendships with friends I met through my bf's, and I didnt let "him" effect it. We just didnt talk about it, the past is the past. If you feel you can sit down and talk to him, and not cross any lines get it all off of your chest and thats your way of feeling the "closure" than do it. Alot of people feel they need some last conversation with that person to hear things out and it makes them feel at ease.

I also think it depends on your own emotional level you still have with him. Maybe youre at a point now where you can talk, but do you truly believe that will be it? Will that be good enough for you? Do you think even if after the talk, and he's still dating whats her name or someone else, you'd be able to go hang out and be the friends you were before? Would your current b/f be ok with you hanging out with him? Personally, if I had ANY residual feelings for an x I wouldnt want to try hang out with him, hmm hmm no way. Too easy to slip.


If you can have a friendship with him without compromising yourself and your current relationship you'd be fine. But I think you may still have some romantic feelings for him. Otherwise, a birthday party wouldnt stop you.?? See what Im saying? In your own heart do you think you could do it? Have just a friendship with him?

[DarkDwarf]

Bacamo makes everything better. I swear it.

[Ayame]

I think it is quite a bit different than most relationships.

Anyway, you should get rid of the current boyfriend (or at least be honest about your cheating), and then you can do what you want without feeling guilty.

well I can say that I wont be breaking up with my boyfriend over a stupid mistake that I made while we were on the rocks. Besides things have been getting better between us. And I will never be able to go back into a gf/bf relationship with my best friend. This isnt really about questioning my relationship with my boyfriend. It's more about explaining the love I felt for my best friend, and trying to get an idea of what I should do in these difficult situations.
I've come to terms with what I've done in the past, and it was an isolated situation. . . I've never so much as held another man's hand before or after that while with my boyfriend.
I was confused and hurt, and I made a mistake. I dont think that is cause for deeming myself an unworthy cheater...

but anyway... Squirrley said that maybe he doesnt mention her name out of respect for my feelings, and I think maybe I should mention that to him. Because all it really does is make me feel like he thinks I'm stupid. I'd much rather he just be open with me about things, like I am with him. That way we could start to go back to normal conversation. Dont you think?



BACAMO - is def pretty good in theory. :o) truth is maybe you are right. It has worked for me in the past. It's just different this time since I feel more like I'm losing a great friend rather than just an ex lover...

[ExpoNovak]

You do realize if you and your best friend have mutual friends (and girly as well) the sheer potential for destruction this awards you, yes?

Basically I think he's doing his girlfriend far dirtier than you are doing your boyfriend. But the fact remains that he has lied lied lied to his girl. Do you want to be his girl again so he can lie to you? What sort of things was he saying to you while she was sleeping on his "couch"? What was he saying to her? You will never know. This guy doesn't sound like much of a friend and he certainly doesn't sound like the type to be able to give as much as any mate is willing to give to him--at least not you and Girl B, that's for sure.

Either destroy their relationship through mutual friends and then go out and have a beer, reveling in your satisfaction or walk away. No matter what your feelings for him are all he is going to do is take advantage of them and step on them. You don't need that. Cut ties with him. And yeah, go to the party and DON'T EVEN LOOK AT HIS SORRY ASS. He has all the control right now. Don't give him the satisfaction---even though I know you will anyway.

[Gigabitch]

I'm with Expo. This guy is a chode. I don't care how much you love him, he's a mentiroso.

IMO, you have no business dating anyone for a while. You can't commit, and that's why this guy seems to fit well with you. When you evolve to the point where you're actually ready to have a relationship, this guy will no longer hold any appeal for you. Maybe then you can be friends. At this point, all he has to do is bullshit you a little bit and he's right back in your bed.

Don't let him back in your bed. If you have to skip a couple of parties to get your head on straight, so be it.

Also, I think you should tell everyone what has happened with this guy. I'll bet most of them don't know half of the story. For all you know, you're not the only one of your mutual friends group he's been sleeping with. Secrets suck. Out with the truth!

[Ayame]

Either destroy their relationship through mutual friends and then go out and have a beer, reveling in your satisfaction or walk away. No matter what your feelings for him are all he is going to do is take advantage of them and step on them. You don't need that. Cut ties with him. And yeah, go to the party and DON'T EVEN LOOK AT HIS SORRY ASS. He has all the control right now. Don't give him the satisfaction---even though I know you will anyway.

Your post made me smile b/c you are saying some of the things that run through my mind that I only dream I would have the guts to do. Go to where he is and stick my nose in the air. Or make our secret known among all our friends. Truth is, I dont know if I can do those things.

But maybe its worth giving it a try. IF i go to this party. I should ignore him. But as far as letting the cat out of the bag about me and him so she finds out, I almost feel as if that's worse that the actual deed. I dont know if thats the right or wrong thing to do....

[Gigabitch]

The right thing to do would be to call her right now and have a little chat about him.

[squirrley]

although I agree with giga and letting the cat out of the bag, Im a person who doesnt want to create more problems, Im about creating balance and not wanting more bs. Ive always said you should go to the party
IF you can contain yourself. It doesnt sound like you really want anything else with this guy.

In the end all you have is yourself to rely on, for ANYTHING! Dont expect much from him. You need to do whats best for yourself. If he's screwing her over, thats her problem now not yours. Look out for yourself.