Do we think this is a cause for concern, or maybe a good thing?

[Tonia2]

Did a bad thing yesterday, but it may not have turned out so bad…

The ex invited me for dinner – I went, and he had set up quite a seduction scene. The night before he had been with my brother and had expressed his doubts about our break-up. Anyway, we had a nice dinner, tried to watch a movie, but of course couldn’t, and ended up in bed. I have to say, it was really nice. Afterwards, I got the impression that he wanted to talk to me about something – he kept raising the issue and then bottling it. Eventually he said he would like to get some counselling. He expressed his concerns that if he couldn’t make it work with me, he wouldn’t be able to make it work with anyone, and he doesn’t want to end up alone.

I asked if he was totally committed to it being over between us, and he twice said that he absolutely wasn’t. I know he is still having his cake, but I sensed a real uneasiness with him. I really don’t think he wants to f*ck this up. He said, totally unprompted that he thinks I am amazing, and he was pretty insecure about my plans for the short-term that don’t include him. I think he may be coming round, but I am also preparing for the fact that he may not. Its quite positive though, is it not? I shouldn’t have slept with him, but I am as much to blame as him – we can’t seem to keep our hands off each other (which means we probably shouldn’t hook up at the moment) but it was very tender and loving too.

[Tonia2]

Latest developments - can I ask your advice please guys- i don't think you are going to approve, but please don't judge me too harshly:

Have just had a long chat with him actually. He is terrified of hurting me again, but wants an exclusive relationship – just not on the footing that it was before (make any sense? Not making much to me…) The exclusivity is the most important thing to me. He seems really scared of offering me anything, but acknowledges that it is probably his problem and hopes that his counseling will sort his head out and stop him wanting the impossible intensity that you cannot have when you live with someone. He says he loves me, cares about me etc. I am confused. It will involve sneaking around if we do do this, but if he is really committed to having counseling, then I am keen to make a go of it. We moved in to a very intense situation much too early, and I think he wants to go back to the bit that we missed out on - he evn kind of said this to me. He also said that he would rather have a non-sexual relationship with me and review it in time than for me to cut contact with him. In an ideal world, that is probably what I should go for, but you know me and ideal scenarios!!

Fine in theory, but I stand to get pretty hurt if it messes up again, you know? He seems positive without making any promises. I have to decide if I love him enough and if that is good enough for me. I am scared of selling myself short, but I am scared of losing him and something that could be good potentially. He is addicted to the short term highs of a relationship, but not the long haul - I hope that this is what counselling will sort out for him. Would I be an idiot to comply? I really really want to. He also said that if we cut contact for a long time, he would be unlikely to come back begging. He said that this was nothing to do with me, as he thinks I am amazing, but from his experience with his wife, who cut contact for some months and he didn't really mind. I think he would find me a lot harder to get over though (he always said our relationship break-up was harder than their marriage break-up.) He sounds a bit of a tw*t, but he really really isn't. He is trying to be honest.

Please don't just automatically tell me that I am being an idiot and should ignore him... I think he feels that I am expecting it to be all or nothing, and he did say that he was quite a long way from asking me to move in with him (although getting closer) as we both had to be sure, and I would have to trust him again.

[C1d6OC]

Tonia, he is reaching out to you. It's obvious, but reading your words carefully, you seem to be a bit scared too which is basically what you have always implied. This exclusive relationship. Does he mean he wants to get back together, but just take things slower? I mean if that's the case, then perhaps maybe he does know how he feels and just wants confirmation. I think the counselling will do him great. I mean if he says he needs it, it shows that he wants to fix himself and is attempting to fix things with you too. This guy seems very caring and loving. If anyone tells you you're being an idiot, then I would have to disagree. One thing I would suggest though is to not comply right away. See how things are going with his counselling first. I mean it's something he wants to fix. Well if counselling isn't working, then you're taking a big risk. Although, relationships are risky, you have to do what your heart tells you. If you make mistakes, then you either learn from them or make them again until you do learn from them. I've made many mistakes of which some I've learned and others I'm still trying to overcome. It's not easy.

Like I said, you need to do what's best for you. If this will make you happy, then do it, but also at the same time, ensure that you are still watching out for yourself. Don't cave in all the way. I just simply mean take the advice you've already taken and apply it every way possible. Things are still on your terms and don't forget it. I hope this helps with your message and anyone that says you're an idiot, just forget them.

Cdoc

[Tonia2]

Thank you! You manage to give a really balanced perspective - not following the book 100% but making sure that I am aware of the shortcomings of my situation.

I think he is doing the counselling quite selfishly actually - he acknowledges he has a problem (which is a vindication for me) but I think he wants to get his head around it for any future relationship he might have- not necessarily for the good of our relationship. It is definitely a positive step though. He is soooo reluctant to give me any promises that he won't necessarily be able to keep, which I do respect, so I am not going to push him for any answers at the moment. He is offering what he can at the moment, and it is up to me whether I can accept those terms, and what terms I want to lay out.

Having lived together for a year (although in a very unhealthy and weird environment) then this is undoubtedly taking a massive step backwards, but it is also a massive step forward from where we were 3 weeks ago. I have missed him so much and in a strange way it is quite fun and thrilling being so into each other again - he is treating me as attentively as he did at the beginning of the relationship in a lot of ways. Then my cat dies today and I don't feel able to call him straight away and tell him and I remember that we are in a very strange situation.

I am not sure how this is going to play itself out, but I do not want to lose him...

[Tonia2]

As far as whether we are in a proper relationship - I guess probably not, but this is as much from my side as his. I cannot let my parents know what is happening, and as I live with my brother then I am going to have to do some sneaking around. My mother has been unbelievably supportive, but said that she couldn't bear me to get back with him unless he asked me to marry him - so she would really disapprove of this situation.

I don't think that is a realistic progression of a relationship like ours though - I for one would like to take it much more slowly than that. I don't envisage that in our current relationship we will be discussing plans far into the future, and we won't be taking holidays and things like that - so I suppose it is not a proper gf/bf relationship, but he knows that it can't go on like this for ever - hopefully the counselling will give him some clarity. When we are lying in bed laughing and loving each other - with him being so tender towards me it is hard to cut myself off from that. I would rather give it some time to develop.

[C1d6OC]

The most important thing to remember is that you are handling this ok and at the same time, continuing to be Tonia. I just simply mean that you continue to watch out for yourself and maintain that mindset. If you have that handled, then it's really all up to you with other aspects of your life. Before I said I would not talk to my ex even if she did contact me. But I mean, I knew I was ready and I'd be ok. Knowing that, I knew that no matter what she said, I was going to be fine. As much as it probably would have been easy to just be an a'hole and completely ignore it, that wouldn't be right either. I just take this and kind of put it in perspective of your situation. I mean you guys have kept in contact, and things may/may not progress. But you are taking as much responsibility and that is very mature of you. As much as we hate our exes for what they did, they are still human and maybe just as confused, if not, more confused. And because you are in this situation, there is no right or wrong. You are being very supportive. I admired you from the beginning and still do.

hehe...my stuff I guess could be textbook, but when I take a look on the forums and my friends relationships and mine, it all seems like a big trend. I've taken that and applied it to myself and it has all helped me out so much to continue to be strong. You stay strong too and you will be fine.

Cdoc

[cycletease]

A couple of things from my side:
1) Relationships come in all shapes and sizes. Following the textbook is unimportant, the only thing that matters is that the situation works for you. Does this arrangement work for you? Is this another compromise on your end so that at least you have something? If so, then I caution you that you are setting yourself up. If you feel good about this and feel it will be an opportunity to mend things and start over then that is great! I believe this could actually work out better for you if it plays out like you have suggested. Starting over in a relationship is scary, but if it is a chance for improvement then it is a good thing.

2) Sneaking around about this is going to be a problem. I am afraid that it will make you unhappy...especially alienating your closest support. I suggest you find a way to be honest just not particularly open about the situation. Tell them that you are seeing him on occasion, just don't elaborate.

3) He needs counseling for sure. The fact that he is self aware enough to recognize this is good. Perhaps you should consider some couples counselling...

4) He says that he would not come begging after an absence, but from my perspective he hasn't left you alone for a minute. I don't think that he knows himself very well at the moment. I really believe that he is afraid to admit that he really loves you...I think that he is running from you specifically, not just committment in general. Being in love is a risk, now he is in a dilemma because he is afraid to be with you but can't be without you.

5) I say that you need to hold strong to your primary mission no matter what route you choose, do things on your terms that will be good for you. The stronger that you are on that the more he will respect you and start looking out for you.

In summary, I think you are making progress. It is nice to see that this guy isn't just walking away. I like that he was scared when you cut him off (even if it was only for a few hours, you still go tthe results. Talk about a guy that responds to no contact. 1 missed phone call and he is complaining!)...it shows that he is really missing you.

I say stick to your guns and give it a shot. Buffering yourself from getting hurt is never going to work. This is love and you will be vulnerable. You are going to get hurt either way so you may as well get hurt giving it your all. If it doesn't work out you know that it wasn't because you held back.

Keep us posted!

[Tonia2]

I love your advice, Cycletease! It is so solid...

He is very reliable - even now. Yesterday, just as I was starting to wonder, he called. When I didn’t answer, I got a text 2 mins later asking if I was OK. Called him later and we had a good chat – went out with people that he doesn’t know, and he was uneasy. I am taking him out of his comfort zone, and this is a good thing. Definitely something that I have to maintain, as it seems to be having results. Also got text at 8.30am saying how much he liked the cufflinks I got him for Christmas?!

Friends know about our ‘arrangement’, but family just can’t – mother wants him to propose or nothing, but I would freak out at this – we have a lot of groundwork to make up, and trust to be regained. My main concern is that even one evening together I will be constantly worried about it getting ‘boring’ or banal. He can’t seem to cope with the reality of a cosy relationship, and I don’t want to feel like I am constantly performing and trying to be the perfect woman.

[cycletease]

My main concern is that even one evening together I will be constantly worried about it getting ‘boring’ or banal. He can’t seem to cope with the reality of a cosy relationship, and I don’t want to feel like I am constantly performing and trying to be the perfect woman.

This is a very good thing to be aware of for yourself. I know where you are coming from on this and you have to keep yourself in check. Pleasing him cannot be the ultimate goal. It is easy to slip back into this mindset if you are not aware of it. You need him to be pleasing you, always remember that.

You sound way healthier right now and things seem to be going well with everything. Your no contact, even if on the short term, is really working well with him. You are putting him on your terms and that is good.

[Tonia2]

Thank you. He just called to make plans for Friday night. We are going to his local cinema. He wanted to revisit the 'rules of engagement'. I said that exclusivity was my most important boundary and he said of course it would be...

He is getting a payrise and also said that he would 'buy me something pretty' or let me donate it to charity when it comes through. Sounds like sort of boyfriend stuff to me? We had a nice chat anyway.

[cycletease]

We had a nice chat anyway.

I am glad that things are going so well. It sure feels good to have some hope and promise!

[Tonia2]

Hi guys… what do we make of the following? He basically tried to rearrange our plan for tomorrow night to Saturday (although he said if I couldn’t make Saturday then he would stick to tomorrow). I capitulated and then got really angry, so called him back and told him it was tomorrow or nothing…

He always threatens me like this (“I was thinking about canceling”) and it really annoys me… also, darlingheart was our jokey endearment that we used to use with each other. He then sent me an email saying:

‘if we are still friends by next Sunday (I hope we are!) shall I get tickets for this director’s Q & A’

The word ‘friends’ just is so insipid… and it makes me feel sh*t and panic. Also that he would have so little faith in us that we might not be friends by then… Am I coming across OK on the emails though?

-----------------------------------------------------------

Him to me:

Typical you - wait until you are 30 pounds lighter before throwing your weight around.

See you tomorrow eve.



From: me to him
Can you stop threatening me with cancelling stuff - what are you trying to prove with that? I throw my weight around once, and you bail on me… I had a good point – you don’t just wait around for better offers.

Otherwise plans sound good. Don’t be a stroppy little boy please, throwing your rattle out of the pram. I thought you might approve of me being a bit more assertive anyway – should bring to mind Freudian images of strict posh nannies, which I know is wet dream stuff for you.

-----Original Message-----
From: him to me

as I've explained (and apologised for) I didn't mean you to feel second best. Forgot I was dealing with the deb diary (and have to say was on the verge of suggesting we cancel it following your over-reaction). Why don't you meet me at XXX at 8.30/8.45 and we can decide whether we want to see a movie or get some food or head back to mine for some sups. That way we both get to have a drink with our co-workers and see each other. Or does it have to be the whole evening? Fine if it is.

your darlingheart


From: Me to him
Sorry about earlier. I just felt that now was not the time to be taking me for granted and getting me to fit in with your plans. I have been invited out for drinks with work tomorrow night, but I said no yesterday as we had a plan. It did not occur to me to postpone you in favour of work drinks – nor would it have occurred for me to cancel any long-standing plans.

You may think I am over-reacting, but I think that things are fragile between us at the moment, you know? I hope I don’t sound too like E now (who, by the way, has just sent me another email… what the hell time is it over there?) 9 songs is on at the XXX at 6.45pm, or there are the following at XXX (I am keen on Constantine or Hostage):

[C1d6OC]

Things are on your terms. I really don't need to elaborate. He tried to somewhat change the plans, but you did good by sticking to your guns. It really is a fragile situation and he needs to see it like you do.

I honestly feel that your tone sounds like you are not taking any guff from this guy and you may also be getting annoyed by it as well. You are doing as your therapist and others have said and you are watching out for yourself.

I just want to point out that you seem to be doing something other exes (on the receiving end) wouldn't even bother with and it almost seems like you are piecing the puzzle quite well. By this, I just mean your situation is so unique and yet, it seems to be flowing quite well. You aren't mopey, you aren't depressed, yet you are in contact with your ex. This doesn't normally work. I want to say I'm proud of you. Keep it up and keep us posted.

Cdoc

[Tonia2]

• Thanks for putting a positive slant on this – it doesn’t feel that positive. Also, what you say at the end, it is complicated and thanks for saying I am doing well, but I am still very confused. Yes I am trying not to dwell on it, but I am not even sure whether we are still exes or whether we have a tentative relationship going on… it is quite confusing. I think it is all so cool when I am being aloof and seductive and cool, but the minute that I feel I am getting the brush off, or am being snubbed, I feel crushed.

This makes me feel that I am possibly not as sorted as I pretend! The aim of my email was to try to make a potentially difficult conversation a bit more light-hearted, and hopefully I achieved that anyway. I just need to leave it until tomorrow now, and TRY not to obsess...

[C1d6OC]

I like to think as optimistic as possible even though a situation such as this it's hard to see it that way. This way it gives a balance to how you're thinking and look at it in a bright sense -view the rays coming out of you if you hear what I'm saying. That may not make sense, but just be as positive as possible and yes "try" not to obsess. You sound like you have been the peacemaker in this relationship, because it shows in your efforts.

Whether or not you are still exes is difficult to say. I mean did you come to the agreement about the exclusiveness before like you mentioned? Or did that fall through the crack? I will pinpoint the fact that you are confused. Remember that things should be on your terms. If you are unsure what is going on, then you need to confront him about it and see what he is thinking. This is to get clarity. Ultimately this is what you are looking for. I would decide what to do from there depending on what he says.

Cdoc