Some passing thoughts on roles in relationship

[Mish]

Just a place to put my abstract thoughts of late on the subject

I've been thinking lately about the purposes behind male logically driven and female emotionally driven perspectives on the relationships and how these tie in together. And this is what I came up with:

Girl's emotional attachment is the glue that holds the relationship together while guy's ability to stir up those emotions inside of her is the foundation. Take away this emotional attachment and the house (relationship) will simply fall apart since theres nothing to hold it together. Take away the foundation and the walls will cave in due to the lack of any substance to keep them in place.

Mutual understanding forms the basis and contract by which both can interact. Without this there can be no relationship no matter how hard any party tries to build one with whatever tools at their disposal.

I.e. Take away the girl's emotional attachment and no amount of
logic will hold the relationship in place. Take away guy's ability, will and creativity to keep the girl's emotional reality stimulated and the feelings will simply no longer be there, making relationship impossible. Take away the mutual understanding that generates these drives and watch the relationship systematically decline.


Also, an observation of interest

Guys (mostly) think in perspectives that have value in logical, planning and practical concepts. It's logical that a guy with this value should be with girl of this value. X amount is required to plan for the future. X amount needs to be in place. Goals how to reach it. If it's not a solid logical concept that doesn't make sense it might as well not exist. Feelings aren't really very important, they can be conjured up of thin air, they are material to build things and tools to reach goals. Logic is most important discipline on how to arrive there, it has to make sense to do anything.

Girls (mostly) think in perspectives that have value in emotional, connectivity and interpretory value concepts. It's logical that a guy who feels this for girl who feels that should be together. Future planning is important, but feelings and connection will be the discipline on how the two will arrive there. The most solid plans only work if they have a grounding in emotional reality. If there is no connection or deep feeling relationship might as well not exist. Logic in itself is not very important, it can be conjured up of thin air, they are material to build things and tools to reach goals. Feelings is the most important discipline on how to arrive there, it has to feel right to do anything.

Of course, not trying to separate the two entirely. Both guys and girls can be both logical and emotional, at times equally, at times even in reverse. These are just my thoughts on "default" operating model for each gender. The default point of view from which either operates. Bearing in mind, there are many points of view.


Damn it, this is the longest piece of crap I've written in awhile


Thoughts?

[vashti]

I didn't read the entire post (too long), but I think the initial premise is wrong.

I know it is a popular myth for males that women are emotional beings, and I agree that this appears to be largely true in the dating world. However, in the marriage world, it is quite the reverse: men are the emotional thinkers, and the women are more practical.

If you think I am wrong, then consider all the broken hearted men who have such romantic ideas about marriage, and completely fall apart when the marriage ends. Men very often have a more difficult time recovering from divorce because of their romanticized ideas about what marriage means. (Consider your own ideas of what marriage should be, which I have told you many times is based on romaticized fantasy.)

To the extent that females are considered "emotional" thinkers, I think it is merely because that is the role they are expected to play when they are young.

[boobaa]

Blah blah blah, we are both emotional and practical.
Iits only that our aims are different. As Vonnegut said, in the end it all comes down to the amount of people, friendship. Women want people to tell about their lives, men need people to tell jokes. Therefore, we have also different perspective of what a companion is. Women don't have the same emotional feelings that men have for their love etc. And in the end, it all comes down to how much people are around you. In the past, there were no relationship trouble because both men and women had big families, that meant more friends. Today, women and men are separate. It matters how much people you are.

[misombra]

i agree with the others.

[Tedel]

mm... Your logic is OK, but I think dad said it in a much simpler way:

"A girl wants the man to be the man of the relationship; that way, she will feel safe to free her most feminine herself and you will both enjoy the benefits."

Your post wasn't crap at all, if you don't mind my saying so.

[misombra]

are you in a relationship tedel?

[bluesummer]

i agree with the others.

I second this.

I'm not a big fan of the 'emotional woman/logical man' argument either. There's enough posts on this board alone to prove how emotional men really are. I also think that men are becoming more comfortable with showing emotion since society is so much more permissive of that behaviour in them.

Relationship 'roles' these days, are often more personality based than anything, I find. The traditional mens and womens 'roles' are changing, blending even. The line that divides them is quite blurred. Some people argue that this is a detriment to modern day relationships. I say it's a bonus, because it allows individuals to be who they really are.

[anachronistic]

I disagree altogether. I think your generalizations are too broad.

[Gigabitch]

I agree very strongly with Vashti- women have a much more practical perspective on marriage. I think there's a role reversal as soon as children come into the equation. A girlfriend or a wife can be very emotional about her relationship, but a mother can be stone cold logical and usually has to be.

I think Mish is right about how relationships are built, but Vashti's right about why they last.

[GrkScorp]

Damn it, this is the longest piece of crap I've written in awhile


Thoughts?

You're getting there Mish, the transformation is almost complete.. muah-hahaha

[GrkScorp]

Thoughts?

That applies, and it's all good, up until a point, and that point is the end of that initial stange in a relationship.. Namely, marriage.. when you can hear the prison doors slam shut behind you as you utter the words.. "I do".. When you're locked/trapped together by the force of law, no longer the force of love.. Then, when maternal instincts kick in after childbirth, you don't matter.. The only reason you matter, is because of the kids.. there's no need to not nag, to stop eating, to work out, to stay in shape, to be considerate, to care about you or pleasing you.. But let's not deal with that horrid and dark reality yet.. we're still young..

If you're interested, read Ch. 18 in Thus spake Zarathustra, by Friedrich Nietzsche

(18. Old and Young Women)

"Everything in woman is a riddle, and everything in woman hath one
solution- it is called pregnancy.
Man is for woman a means: the purpose is always the child. But
what is woman for man?"

For this stage of the game.. yes, highly emotional, lost in their feelings.. and for this stage of the game.. you may want to hear some more on it from younger women, who are perhaps not married and have no children.. unless you're interested in those women.. that's up to you.. nobody is to pass judgement on personal preferences..

But for this stage, this early stage, for younger women, there is very little logic, very little direction, (not to imply it doesn't exist.. I go to school with some brilliant 22-24 year-olds, and they're there for one reason, it's not luck, it's not fate, it's because they made respectable/realistic goals for themselves, and worked hard to attain them).. but in large, not creatures of logic.. creatures of sentiment, emotion, where the motives are always feelings.. and feelings change constantly, they come and go like the wind.. which is why they're not just unpredictable to others, but also to themselves..

[IndiReloaded]

Perhaps those who aren't married & have never been married should reconsider posting negatively about that which they are ignorant about.

Particularly when we have a new member who has recently lost a spouse, who he seems to have loved dearly.

Mish, my experience, which I've mentioned before, is that men & women are equally emotional/logical. In different areas, depending on their strengths & temperment. And yes, I too have observed that it is men who, once they commit, tend to 'stay committed' much more readily than women. Not that women aren't loyal, they are, but they seem to need more regular reassurance about the relationship compared with their spouses.

Perhaps its that assumption of 'pack leader' responsibility you mentioned before, but its definitely a switch that gets flipped.

[vashti]

Perhaps those who aren't married & have never been married should reconsider posting negatively about that which they are ignorant about.

Aye to that! Why is it that people who know the least about marriage (and aren't even in a stable relationship)are the ones who have the strongest opinions about it?

[DoesntMatter]

We're all going to hell

[vashti]

I'll be your next-door neighbor, DM.