do yourself a favor

[Mish]

your argument doesn't have strength. people separate and break up when children are involved all the time, especially if they're married.

in fact everybody i know that went and got married and had kids in their 20's have split up with children less than ten years old.

They would probably have split up even faster if they weren't married. At least their kids got ten (or less) years of support out of the relationship. Just like anything in life the harder it is to do something, the less likely it is for the person to carry through, the more likely they will stop and think about alternatives. I don't see how marriage contributes to fall of relationship in this instance. If anything it encourages people to resolve their differences, because the punishment is heavy if they do not.

Also don't forget about the legal rights of children and cultural significance of marriage I mentioned earlier.

[ausgirl]

Why are you people so cynical? I can't wait to get married to the man i fall in love with...

[misombra]

They would probably have split up even faster if they weren't married. At least their kids got ten (or less) years of support out of the relationship. Just like anything in life the harder it is to do something, the less likely it is for the person to carry through, the more likely they will stop and think about alternatives. I don't see how marriage contributes to fall of relationship in this instance. If anything it encourages people to resolve their differences, because the punishment is heavy if they do not.

Also don't forget about the legal rights of children and cultural significance of marriage I mentioned earlier.

the cultural significance, yes i can see that.

the legal rights would exist regardless if people are married or not.

breaking up after you've been together with somebody a long time is very hard. breaking up if you have kids with them is even more difficult.

people get divorced if they don't want to be together. i would like to see some good hard data that proves that marriage makes them stay together longer. and if it's true i'm sure that same data will also show that a significant number of those married people were miserable and made their spouses and their children miserable and prolonged the misery. i'm sure it would also show that some peoples idea of "working it out" means suppressing the other financially, making sure they can't afford to go anywhere. or sometimes it's abuse. my bf works in a childrens psych hospital and comes home with stories of children being horribly abused. there are a lot of children of married people in prison who were horribly abused and wound up there. prolonging a relationship with marriage does not mean that the children grow up in a better environment, even if it's true that marriage prolongs relationships.

[Junket]

and if it's true i'm sure that same data will also show that a significant number of those married people were miserable and made their spouses and their children miserable and prolonged the misery. i'm sure it would also show that some peoples idea of "working it out" means suppressing the other financially, making sure they can't afford to go anywhere. or sometimes it's abuse.

I remember my mother and step father saying they would stay together "for the kids".

I wish I could've beat the f*ck out of them then because it was easily the worse of the 2 choices.

They're still technically married, but now he lives with my 2 f*cked up abusive little sisters and my mom lives at our old home.

Fighting every day.

Not just fighting, low and dirty kind of fighting, with a swung arm to boot, and a broken dish or glass.

Yeah, stay together for the kids.

Why is the house so dirty? Oh, because the kids won't help clean up the mess the mother made.

Why are we on welfare? Because pussy of the house can't seem to keep a proper job and spends most of his time playing computer games and looking at porn.

[Only-virgins]

No, dont' get married. Stay single forever and spread HIV/AIDS and all the other lovely infections and diseases to every stretch of humanity until almost everyone dies out. If you're going to stay single, you might as well sew a ****ing condom to your dick.

This doesn't make sense at all. So the two options are get married or spread diseases? What kind of logic is this. Are you trying to argue that marriage is a reasonable solution for STD preventions?

[misombra]

i think if people want to get married, they should do it because they want to. because it's what their parents and grandparents did and they want to follow tradition. but don't blame children for some need to have contractual, arbitrary security on your relationship.

[Gribble]

Why are you people so cynical? I can't wait to get married to the man i fall in love with...

Cynicism protects you from yourself. If you marry the first guy you "fall in love with" I'm willing to bet within ten years you'll be divorced, jaded, and every bit as cynical as anyone else around here. Just wait and see.

[Mish]

i'm sure it would also show that some peoples idea of "working it out" means suppressing the other financially, making sure they can't afford to go anywhere. or sometimes it's abuse.

Not necessarily. For some maybe. But like in article Indi posted marriage can actually encourage people to WORK things out instead of leaving

Now is the time when many people face a fork in the marital road. They don’t want to go on this way. Three choices become apparent. Convinced they’ve tried everything, some people give up. They tell themselves they’ve fallen out of love or married the wrong person. Divorce seems like the only logical solution. Other people resign themselves to the status quo and decide to lead separate lives. Ultimately, they live unhappily ever after. But there are others who decide that it’s time to end the cold war and begin to investigate healthier and more satisfying ways of interacting. Although the latter option requires a major leap of faith, those who take it are the fortunate ones because the best of marriage is yet to come.

Face it, it's a lot easier to leave if you are not married and it is also a lot easier to make a lot of mistakes that will see any road to reconciliation permanently closed. If I'm in a non marital relationship with you, I can say "We're done" and that's it. I can go out and sleep with as many women as I want to the same night without any more links to you. If we were married I don't have a luxury of making that mistake. I could do it, but what are the chances you would take me back afterwards? Or what are the chances I can make a good legal case in the court when it comes to questions of my character? (When we talk about division of property and kid's visiting rights) Even though 'I believe we are done', I still have links to you. There is still paper work to finalize, lawyers to query, property to divide, all kinds of legal proceeding. I don't have a luxury of making mistakes any more because I will be paying for it. I need to make sure this bit is properly handled. And then looking at all this dirt I have to go through I ask myself, are we really done? Is it definitely over? Sure nothing else can be done to work things out, save the relationship?

See, I wouldn't be thinking these thoughts if I'm not married. And the fact that I would be thinking these thoughts is one of the big reasons why marriage is important. It allows people to moderate reactions and responses in a way that a non marital relationship doesn't.

Sure there are bad apples. Sure there are abusive people out there and they should not be married in the first place. But as a whole, if you apply the principles to majority who are decent people, marriage can save relationships by allowing people more time to think about what it is they are doing and more time to try to reconcile with their partner. And in many situations that's all it takes to save a relationship.

[misombra]

how long was your longest relationship, mish?

[Mish]

how long was your longest relationship, mish?

3 Years...

[misombra]

and did you live together?

[Mish]

and did you live together?

Yes, for about 2 years (maybe a bit less)

[misombra]

interesting.

true commitment is in your heart, not on paper. if somebody doesn't want to be with you, you can't force them to stay per contract.

oh yeah, and another way of "working it out" is also cheating. don't even get me started on how often that happens.

[Mish]

true commitment is in your heart, not on paper. if somebody doesn't want to be with you, you can't force them to stay per contract.

That's very true. But sometimes that bit of paper helps. I don't know if I would still break up with her if I was married, but I'm sure I would've thought I lot harder than I did back then. Maybe while I was thinking a lot harder, I would've found another solution.

[Only-virgins]

Face it, it's a lot easier to leave if you are not married

Yea, basically avoiding having the children hear all the yelling and neglect that "pretend" love has. Sounds like a good plan to me. I am going to get bored of that someone eventually and YES I am going to leave, married or not I am going to leave. You are right, it will make it harder for me to leave when I am married, but I will still leave just that I will have to use little Bobby's college money to make sure I get a good lawyer and the bitch doesn't leave with my life.