Longing to be loved 2

[TheEvilJester]

I don’t necessarily mean waiting for sex is a bad thing (depending on how long)
I just mean that for you it is not working. You seduce the girls and then withhold
It makes no sense to women. It is weird that way. You are perceived as weird that way. You don’t come of like you are in touch with your emotions and needs really.

I do agree with this. I'm not sure if you are specifically doing this, pc, but I'll admit I too have sometimes been a little confused by which way you fall on this spectrum. Because sometimes in the past you've told us some of your relationships have ended because the women thought you talked about sex TOO MUCH... and now it seems like some of them are ending because they think you don't seem interested in sex enough. So, not sure if you've taken a complete 180 or exactly what is the case....

However, I will definitely agree that if you are going out of your way to seduce women and ACT all interested....yet then it never leads to sex, that can very well have a lot of the consequences Hooo is talking about. I'm not sure if that maybe IS what you are doing or not. Just dating somebody isn't (at least in my view) the same thing as actively seducing them. You can be dating and both feel you are not yet ready for sex. More so, I think of seducing to mean you are actively doing or saying things that give the impression you are trying to get things to lean towards sex. So, if you ARE giving that impression and yet aren't ready to actually have sex yet, that certainly CAN confuse women (confuse anybody really) to the point where they may move on.

Again, I don't know if that is what you are doing, but it is definitely interesting speculation. It may be one thing to consider if that maybe helps you have better success in getting the kind of relationship you want.

[pcmaster]

I realized that last time in bed I been doing karezza. Its like form of sex where you just take it really slow and dont orgasm. In terms of getting turned on from 1 to 10 you get to 5 and then back to 1. So its not like edging cause you dont come close to orgasm. Also theres no energy loss afterwards. I should research deeper in this karezza thing. Perhaps Cupids poison arrow might be the book I want. Anyway last time I was pretty straight forward with girl by saying that I dont plan to do anything sinful. And I didnt, didnt touch her below belt line. And clothes stayed on too. Really most girls just want deep emotional intimacy. And thats what I want too. Just deep connection and sweet long slow kisses. With the girl I love or at least like and perfectly who feels the same for me.
There is huge pressure from media and peers to have sex, pickup artists, dating coaches are selling sex as success measurment to progress with girls. But really is that where the happiness is? My freedom is in fact that I dont need sex just like some people needs air or food. Im waiting for the right girl when it will feel right. So and it will probably take more than 3 dates to build up that trust and level of comfort to become closer than ever before with anyone.

[Hooo!]

I think that’s bullshit

No one pushes you to anything.
You could say everyone pushes you always to grab a beer and eat pizza.

People just like to do it

[pcmaster]

How is it not pressure if girls who I knew for weeks or months literally been dropping me like hot potato after they find out that Im not interested in sex?
Would you stop meeting or answering or calling your friends if you found out they are not interested in beer or pizza?

[Hooo!]

Well if we met and you just wanted to talk about cars all the time then yes I’d drop you like a hot potato.

You seduce the woman. You get to know them and bring them flowers. What do you think that they think you want? Go to wall mart together?
They think you wanna ****. And why not? You bring them ****ing roses. Ofc you wanna **** them. And they wanna **** you in return. And no harm done.

Except that you simply don’t want sex.
That’s really really confusing message you send there.

Being romantic but not want To actually be intimate is like installing league of legends going on ts3 talking about it, inviting others into a group
But not wanting to play at all.

[pcmaster]

Not everything have to lead to sex. Thats how you lose interest fast when everything leads to sex. So if I give girl flowers its because i appreciate her, appreciate her beauty and show interest in her. Or sometimes its just a little nice gesture. I been hearing from girls that they been getting big bouquet of flowers in first date and loved it. Dont think its because guys wanted to fck them on first date.
Anyway I am romantic guy. And with girls I learned to be exactly who I want to be in the moment. When will feel like having sex I will do it. So far havent felt like that 100%.

I really dont try to be girls friend but take it more romantic, do things that BF and GF do cause girls have enough friends already these days so I want to be something that they dont have,something that they would miss and want to spend time with. Perhaps thats where Im in conflict cause I dont go all they way to intercourse and satisfy them in bed. But eventually I want to get there just not of third date, thats too soon for me sinc eI dont see sex as part of dating but part of relationship. Yeah perhaps Im too slow too careful, too afraid, too oldschool. But I dont want to change, not yet. Right now Im still on the path of finding myself, fidning what that is it that I really want not others want from me or society wants in general. I think I lost myself for a moment back in the day when was trying to seduce girls. I dont feel like coming so close to sex is right anymore.

[Hooo!]

You are justifying yourself again

I am just telling you how your behaviour will be most likely interpreted.

If you are romantic and don’t want to be intimate that’s like being hungry but not eating.
People (like it has repeatedly happened to you) will not understand.

You want to be their friend (you say you don’t but a male person who’s not ****ing them is exactly that - a friend)
But you act like you want to be their lover.
And then you stop.

This is the effect of the path you have chosen. If you like what you have and get as a result - just keep doing it.
But if you don’t you should skip all the (wrong and unhealthy as well as unhelpful) beliefs you have about sex.


„I haven’t felt like sex“ bullshit
„Women or men lose interest quick if they have sex with each other“ bullshit
„I give flowers to girls because I appreciate their beauty or because they are nice (but I don’t give any to people whom you wouldn’t like to be with romantically or intimately)“ bullshit
„Men who give girls flowers would not want to have sex with them on any date“ bullshit

If you believe that and those believes are generating you the results you want and they are working for you then by all means keep them.
But for me they are just not true and could never be functional true

[pcmaster]

I just watched 5 facts about porn addiction and it said that porn addicts want to watch porn but not always wants to have sex. But sex addicts want to have sex and watch porn.
Guess thats the problem cause I been addicted to porn most of my life. Despite that I have 232 days now free from PMO, Im still addicted and crave porn more than I want sex. Heard that it takes 5 years to get rid off addiction.

Also whats interesting that I just watched Don Jon movie. It was pretty good and girl said - She didnt know first thing about you, she just wanted someone to do anything she wanted.
That makes sense cause girls really dont ask me much question and dont know much about me. I feel like they dont care but also they are not doing anything they dont want. Its all about what they want.
I dont really have a feeling like I matter.

[TheEvilJester]

See, I keep going back and forth on this because I am just very confused as to what exactly it is you are doing. On the surface, I agree with your feeling that sex belongs as part of a relationship not just part of dating. In other words, I wouldn't personally want to have sex with somebody after just a few dates. But by that, I'm not meaning to imply I would feel the need to wait a year or something like that. It doesn't have to take forever, and I'm not even saying we have to have the boyfriend/girlfriend conversation yet. I'm just saying we at least have to have some sense that it seems to be headed in that direction. I don't personally want to just have sex with any woman who will let me.

Yet, at the same time, there is still a progression. In other words, I wouldn't essentially treat her like we were just friends in the time leading up to that. There would be some romance involved (kissing, holding, etc.) because otherwise how is it any different from being friends?

But, I keep getting confused as to exactly where you are on that spectrum. Because, if you are doing things like heavy petting, making out, a lot of on top of the clothes type stuff, etc. and then yet stop short at sex, then I'd probably lean towards agreeing with Hooo. It is going to be very counterproductive to make it seem like you are trying to lead things to sex, but then to stop short of it. Similarly, if you date women for extended long periods of time without moving towards sex I think I'd agree with Hooo then too.

If you want any kind of lasting relationship, then sex most likely will need to be involved sooner rather than later. It doesn't have to be within 3 dates or some magical number like that. But, it should come in what time feels right to you and your partner. Though, if waiting a long time is what feels right to you, then you shouldn't compromise that.... but you should expect that it might be harder to find the right person.

All that said.... if you are finding that women are trying to push things towards sex within 3 dates or something like that, then I think I'd agree with you. That, to me, is too early. It's not for most people, so it isn't like I will say they are wrong and we are right. That works for most people. It just may not work for you and me. That, I personally don't think is something worth compromising. That is not so unreasonable that nobody should be willing to wait a little longer. If a woman couldn't wait beyond date 3, then she's not the woman for me in the first place. If sex is THAT important to her, then she's not right for me, and perhaps not right for you.... But again, that doesn't mean you should expect women to wait forever.

So, not sure where exactly it is you are saying you fall along that line, but hopefully that at least helps you sort of put things in perspective for yourself. Hopefully it helps you to think about whether you may be waiting too long, whether you may be unintentionally leading women on to think you are ready even if you aren't yet, or whether it may be a case of you just finding the wrong women so far. I wish you continued good luck either way.

[pcmaster]

Im not leading on girls in a sense that I never say I want sex. In fact two times before going to girls place I said that I dont want sex. If they still wanted it then its their problem. Also last time I didnt even try to turn on the girl. I know a lot of things that turns on girls and I wasnt doing them. Since second girl said its the worst turn on girl and then leave her wanting. So being more careful with that now. BTW Jester I said that it takes at least a year to get to know the person. But I never said I want to wait year before having sex. So far I never had more than 3 dates in a row with a girl so I never dated a lot with same girl or had chance to have sex on fourth date.

Anyway been thinking a lot about girls tonite at work. I miss third girl - the one I had two chances with. Last time we spoke on the phone - she sounded serious a little worried like telling me something. But I let words pass my ears by, just wasnt listening what she said it was just sound of talking. Now I think what she said back then, was it something important, something that I need to hear or react to. Would things be different now if I knew what she said?

Sure its all past but it really hurts when I think how easy girls dumped me. Everytime I meet new girl, I try so hard to make things work and meet her in a half way. Relationships is really important to me but struggle is real too.

[Hooo!]

I challenge your belief by saying:
You don’t give a damn about relationships
You give a lot about your own opinion and your own needs strategies and boundaries. You set it and if they don’t obey it’s their problem.

Well in my experience this is not how a relationship works at all

[pcmaster]

You don’t give a damn about relationships
You give a lot about your own opinion and your own needs strategies and boundaries. You set it and if they don’t obey it’s their problem.

I feel like this applies more to girls I dated. If they didnt wanted me to do something I didnt do it. If they wanted me to do something I didnt wanted then I didnt do it also because I know that they wasnt doing anything they didnt wanted to do.

For example I know that relationships takes consistency. And I wanted to meet those girls often, at least once a week. They often bailed so it wasnt even once a week ussualy. I refused to meet only once with each girl, because first time I was tired, second time I felt bad had a migraine and third time wasnt in a mood since girl came back home 2 hours later than we arranged to meet.
Also I did text first every day or every second day. Dont want to say anything bad about girls and not playing victim here. Just saying that I tried.

[Hooo!]

Let us say you have met a new woman in your life. She is fun, interesting and beautiful from what you could notice when you met.
You get her number and then proceed to meet to get to know each other better.

Describe what happens in a good scenario without the conversation bits.

[pcmaster]

Well first date would be all about talking and no touching at all. Second date would be at girls place, like hang out watching movies, and have some short comments about movie. Then third date would be again at girls place only cooking dinner together and watching movies but also having short convos and deep questions.
Its hard to think beyond third date cause never had 3 dates in a row but fourth date could be everything, like going outdoors and doing sports, but also first date could be like that cause had a good first date while riding sub boards on a river, but that girls was adventurous and like extreme things like that so it was lucky that I suggested this.
So yeah perfectly first date would be talking a lot and get to know each other verbally with emotional intimacy. Then I would like next two dates to be with more physical intimacy together with some emotional intimacy on third date. The next dates just slow down on physical intimacy and go more outdoors, have dates perhaps in public places or in nature to get to know each other better without all those hormones on second and third date. Still I like holding girls hand while walking and give a hi and goodbye kiss. Also perfectly would be to text everyday and call like once a day. That would be so amazingly perfect. So far had only one girl who like to text a lot, we had 10k texts in two months, but only one phone call. Lately as I get older I like to call more than text cause its more time effective and direct. And after like fifth or sixth date girl says she likes me or loves me and wants to be my GF, wants a relationship with me. After that we could make love.

I have this e-book and I started to read it again today while in a train, read a few pages. Its called 50 Powerful Date Ideas. Its about having time and cost effective dates that girls can brag to about to her friends.

[Hooo!]

So in plain text: in your dates you never seduce the woman in question and you would not like it if she seduces you if even or ever that was the case

And then you are not looking for female friends as in only being friends (as in being emotionally intimate) because you suggest verbally That you want them to become your girlfriend

And you wonder how it is that there never is a third date?