Ignorance is Bliss!

[independent]

Some of you will remember me from my first post here, "Living together is not working out for me". My boyfriend and I had been seeing each other for 2 years, living together for less than 6 months - and I told him I thought it was best he get his own place (open to continue dating).

For a solid month after it was incredibly difficult. He stayed and stayed and stayed... and things were just insanely tense. I finally got him moved out just over a week ago.

The first 5 or 6 days were rough. He called non-stop, pulled in my driveway if I wouldnt answer the phone, etc. I finally had all of my locks changed and just resolved to lock myself in here until he calmed down.

It was never a case of me not loving him - just needing space to deal with a death in my family (and he was very needy and sapping up a lot of energy & resources). Our relationship had just got into a really crazy rut (on his end) - and I wasnt able to deal with it all right then.

Anyway... I had a quiet night over the weekend (children werent home) and he had finally calmed down, so I thought we might get together and try to talk like adults. Maybe it was a weak moment, I dont know - but I phoned and we met for dinner.

We had a wonderful time. I'm still attracted to him - even though I cannot trust him, am disappointed in our relationship and know that he has not treated me well. Nuts, I know. I'm not saying I want things back like they were - just saying that I find him attractive and wish things were different. Well, truth is, I'm heartbroken as hell over the whole damn thing.

Anyway, we had a great time. We had dinner and drinks, then got a room and watched our favorite shows and crashed together. (I didnt say it outright, but I didnt feel comfortable having him back to my place - major lack of trust).

Not a big deal - I came home the next day, went right back to my routine... it didnt really change a thing, but it did calm him down a lot and I think maybe opened a door for us to be able to talk things out like adults from here on out (things like will we date... or when is he going to get the rest of his things... or whatever - I dont know).

Let me just say this - I know a person doesnt change overnight. I just wanted to see him, I did, and it was great. Wish it could always be like that, but I know better.


So here's where it gets weird.

A friend of mine calls me today - one I hadnt talked to in a couple of weeks. She was asking me about how things were going with he and I... and I said that things had been rough, but that we actually went out over the weekend and managed to have a good time together.

And she says "then he went to jail, right?". I just laughed and said "well no" and went on to finish the story of how the night went. So she asks "he didnt go to jail??" as if she was shocked he didnt. I laughed again and said "no of course not - why would he go to jail??"

She had seen him out the morning before. At a place where a lot of our friends hang out or meet for lunch. They had asked him why he didnt come out that weekend, and his reply was: "I went to jail that night"

She proceeds to tell me the entire story. The odd thing is that he used the details of OUR night out - but totally twisted it. Same town, same restaurant, that he was having dinner with me... but then instead of dropping it at that - or telling the rest of the truth - he tells these people that he had too much to drink, and went to jail for PD (public drunkeness). That the bartender cut him off, and he threatened to kick the bartenders a** over it, then went to jail. He told them he spent 4 hours in "the tank" and that I bonded him out.

(I had to laugh at that last part - I would NOT have bailed him out! laugh)


I cannot figure out for the life of me why he would tell such a blatant lie. What could he possibly gain from that? And he should have known it would get back to me, considering I had come to be friends with this lady. It just blew me away. I mean completely blew my mind.

I have sat and heard him lie to his boss. Lie to his son. Heck, I've even listened to him like to me straight to my face. I've always know he was one to lie. And maybe I just accepted it was a major flaw of his (which makes me really wonder whats wrong with ME)... but most of the time it seemed he lied to keep from hurting someones feelings or keep from upsetting someone.

I cant understand lying for no reason at all. Any insight into this?

He doesnt know I know this story. And I'm not even sure its worth bringing up (he always has a lie to cover a lie - it just goes round and round). But I am seriously starting to second guess myself on this whole situation... and it raises some major concerns for me.

Even more odd is that I had both breakfast and lunch with him yesterday - the day he told this story. It was our 2 year anniversary, and we had agreed to go out and eat together. It was a little awkward, but not bad. Anyway, he went out there and told that big lie in between those two meals that we met for... I look back on it now, and I think "do I even know this guy??". How could he be nice and be such good company - and then tell that crazy story - all in the same morning?!

[whaywardj]

Okay. This guy is obviously disconnected. Possibly schizo. Likely, delusional. And I still sense drugs in the picture.

We all exagerate our virtues to one degree or another. We might say we "manage" an office where we only work, for example. Or the like. And later, might even wonder why we did that when we didn't even need to. It's common, natural and -- in small doses -- a perfectly harmless and momentary ego-boost to imagine we're something other than we are that gets us through an awkward moment or tense situation. But when we start believing our own fantasies, that's something else. When we weave them into real happenings as if they are a part of them, that is yet something else. And when we elaborate ourselves that way in a direction that would seem to most people negative -- as in going to jail -- that is yet another thing. Each is more convoluted and, in my view, damaging than the last.

There is only ONE reason for his doing something like that. That's how he identifies himself. Where the reality was that you had a wonderful evening together, his identity requires that to be f'd up in some way due to something HE's done. That's who he is to himself. The guy who f's things up. That he talks about in the way you say he did, suggests that he takes pride in that identity; perhaps, because it requires him to "hang tough." Hanging tough is (to him) his most valuable character trait at the moment. Maybe, all he has to hold onto.

This man has SERIOUS issues and problems. Most revolving around the stress of trying to keep up a charming, "normal" front while all these other sordid impulses are driving him. I doubt you can do anything to help him. He's too far beyond the pale to gain anything from common compassion or simple friendship. Much less, therefore, love.

My two cents.

[Debunkt]

like hayward says, the guy is wack.

[Asip4u]

If you know that he lies so much, why keep hanging on to him? This guy will never change and like Hayward mentioned people like that cannot be helped. Move on from this guy and find someone who won't put so much strain on you.

[independent]

I feel so naive. You know, he always told me I was naive. Over and over again. I argued it the first few times (honestly, I consider myself a fairly intuitive person, aware of her surroundings). Now I know why he thought I was - and why he would laugh at me when I said that I wasnt.

There's no telling what is true, and what isnt. Everything he said over dinner last weekend. Everything he said over breakfast yesterday. I'm still in shock over this one.

He's a good liar. My friend was dumbfounded too - she said he seemed very sincere about it (that he was acting sort of 'down' or bummed out, etc).


A month or so ago I had really hoped he could move out (for my sake) and that we could work through "our problems". I think I am starting to realize I am never going to be able to look at him the same. How very sad.

[Asip4u]

independent, nobody should be putting up with that kind of crap. This guy wil realize how much you cared and how hard you tried to make it work when he gets into a situation where people just won't give a damn about anything he says/does.

[whaywardj]

Please note your own response to your dawning awarenesses: "How very sad." NOTHING could be more well-balanced or compassionate. Go with your instincts on this one. NOT your impulses or desires.

[RSK]

one lie leads to another lie, which leads to another lie. i know somebody who is a liar. this person does it as a 'defense mechanism' (he's told me)

...maybe he's lying! lol...

but, the truth is, that it was hard for him to change. he lied, because it made him feel better, (like whaywardj said).

my friend is also a manipulator. all liars are - they like to manipulate people.

essentially - that is what liars do - they lie, and by doing this, they manipulate you.

they are VERY intelligent people - do NOT underestimate them.

Sometimes, they come up with 'bizzare' lies - it's their very nature.

my advice: confront him

do not be naive! i'm not suprised he lies to you.

he has convinced himself, that he is doing nothing wrong - he IS 'out there'.

2 years is a long time - but this shouldn't go on more. CONFRONT HIM.

let him know that the games must stop.

liars are a different type of people.

he maybe a compulsive liar. and those people are addicted to lying - they thrive on it in a 'sick' way, without knowing or realizing the consequences of their actions.

[whaywardj]

I gotta go back to this: Drugs. When I was a crack-head, I'd tell the most outrageous lies with the most heartfelt sincerity. At first, to cover up my using. Then later, as the drug got a deeper bite in me, because I liked the lies better than I liked my life.

[RSK]

I gotta go back to this: Drugs. When I was a crack-head, I'd tell the most outrageous lies with the most heartfelt sincerity. At first, to cover up my using. Then later, as the drug got a deeper bite in me, because I liked the lies better than I liked my life.

Wow, that's deep.

[whaywardj]

No. It's drugs.

[RSK]

No. It's drugs.

lol. well, i'd be lying to you if i said that i havn't killed any brain cells.

i don't know what it was about drugs - it made me feel like i was sinking (literally and metaphorically).

i guess we've all had our moments when we find ourselves.

today, i'm drug free. i am now, HIGH ON LIFE!

[whaywardj]

The problem with drugs is that they work. Take you right out of yourself and whatever problem you're having that day, that week, that month, that year, that decade. Keep doing them, though, and they take you right out of your life, of course. In the long run, they're a Final Solution.

[independent]

You have mentioned that before... I do remember. And this may be me being naive again (laugh) but I doubt that is the issue. He is on probation, so he has to check in every month and faces a possible test.

Of course, who knows. I have kept a close eye, and no changes in weight or sleeping habits etc so I assumed no drug use.

[whaywardj]

Not to hammer a dead horse, when I went through that, there was always much discussion, calculation and experimentation with beating the tests. Some tried all manner of things. Some of those things actually worked.

Be that as it may, it's aside from the point in any case. I just think there's too much distance to cross for anything to resolve favorably anytime soon. If at all. You're going through it and being able to merely comment on how sad it is, is really very admirable. Wish I had such presence of mind when I was in the midst of my various troubles. Instead, I took some rather darker roads to purge myself.