Bit off more than I can chew?

[whaywardj]

Okay, guys. Got my butt in a wringer here and would appreciate a little commentary on how to best answer the following email I've just received. I'm concerned about saying a wrong thing, or saying a right thing in the wrong way. Since I got the damn thing rolling, I don't have a choice but to reply in some supportive way. But she just sounds VERY fragile right now, and I'm a little afraid of making things worse if I'm not very thoughtful and careful about how I respond...

"Hi, thanks for writing me back------i so appreciate you being my friend.I am just so confused -and i feel all alone-------the ridiculous thing is i no i am not-i have family that loves me and will do whatever they can to help me-and they are there for me.i know this-yet i still feel so alone--what is wrong with me for feeling like that?? i feel lost-------like i dont belong any where-i may not be making any sense to you, but maybe you do understand,and one thing that discusts me is i am starting to miss my boyfriend(dont get me wrong i dont want what we had-) but for some reason i just started to miss him terribly -you probably think im nuts-----------and i probably am....... why would i miss someone who treated me badly disrepected me and my son--said hurtful things that i will never forget -(they still hurt if i think about them-which i try not to) and looking back i realize basically used me to his advantage------financially-and just taking care of him and doing things for him-so he didnt have to. it really bother me that i actually miss him, because i know that means something is terribly wrong with me. what do you think??? you always seem to know the answers to things i dont understand. than part of me is really angry, because we see now that he has a nice place to live, with all his stuff financially okay(of course since he had the opportunity to save while we lived together)---------and i have my stuff in storage -and have to stay where there is really not alot of room(im used to having privacy when i wanted)having medical problems that are making me miserable-and am an emotional wreck...........................all this and i have the nerve to say i mis him-------but i do. do you suppose it is because i am afraid to be by myself?i mean with out a boyfriend?? i know he had caused me to lose alot if not all my self esteem---------right now at this minute i can honestly say i feel as if i will never be happy again----like i am going to be miserable the rest of my life---------everything happened so fast------and i will tell you that before my last boyfriend i was a person that always had someone take care of me--------i dont mean financially all the time, but i mean with everyday problems in general or even big ones-----when i was young my dad always was there to fix things------------my boyfriend before the one that is now who i talk about always took care of everything for me-----------it was like i never really had to worry because i always knew i had someone who fixed things for me---------so i think now i dont have that and i am scared .what possible explanation is there for me to miss my ex-then sometimes i think maybe i am not missing him-but im missing the person i wanted him to be (and had been hoping he one day would)????what ca i do to forget about him period?????

anyway maybe i am just feeling sorry for myself--------when its actually my own fault for ever getting with that type of person in the first place-------face it i had warning signs along the line-i ignored or made excuses for them.
thanks for listening to me once again.i just really need a friend ."

GULP!

[independent]

I can totally relate to what she is saying. Not right at this moment in my life, but I've been there before. My heart goes out to her.

First - is her Father still around and willing to play an active role in her life? You're never too old for your parents to offer you love and emotional support!

Maybe it would help to explain to her that she feels this way *because of* that relationship... so realistically, she probably doesnt want to be back in that situation.

What she is feeling is normal - grieving the loss of something in your life, perhaps even depression. It wouldnt hurt a thing for her to speak with a doctor (even a walk-in clinic) and get some help with coping - - just temporarily. That doesnt mean she's "crazy", it means she is taking the steps to take care of herself. And it would do her good to find someone to talk things out with (not feel so isolated). I am sure that is what she is doing with her message to you... but someone local and "real" would do her a world of good. (YOU told ME that a few weeks ago - and you were right!)


Years ago (at 17), I married a "father figure". Unfortunately my role model for fathers wasnt so hot. My next marriage was extremely co-dependent. Now I am in my 30's and completely independent - but that "leap" took me a couple of hard years (and some serious effort & energy on my part). Maybe it would help to explain to her that life changes over time, wounds heal and hearts mend and new things come along. She wont always feel this way. Try to get her to realize that this is a normal phase in the process... and to focus on whatever it is she needs to do to feel better - and to take care of herself.


And from my own experience... it kind of helps to just get mad at the world, realizing you cant count on anybody. It also helps to get pissed off enough to set out to prove that you can out-do them all. That may not be healthy thinking long-term, but getting mad will get you in action -- and once you get happy with yourself and your lifestyle... you forget all about what they think anyway.

Or at least thats how it worked for me

[Tone]

Good advice independent...

Hayward, I think you should just do what you do best - and that's give this girl some advice! This is a story we've seen here on LF a million times, that all of us get so frustrated about. She wants a friend, and I think she went to the right person.

[independent]

Agreed!

[Asip4u]

She already knows what the problem is as she mentioned in her email Hayward...With all that stuff about wanting him to be this whole other person. Missing him doesn't make her crazy, it happens to many of us. All you gotta do is listen to her and be your usual self.

[shh!]

I don't think she wants your advise - I think she wants your support. Her last line, in fact, was "I just needed a friend."

How much do you like this woman, anyway, Hayward? If you don't mind me saying so, she seems a quite a bit more needy than I would expect out of a woman you'd be hanging around with. Then again, you are infinitely more patient than I am.

[indigosoul]

Hi Hayward,

If this IS someone you happen to like or know, then I'd suggest you DON'T tell us this. If you are serious about feedback then just post your potential response & we'd be happy to "edit" for you if necessary. Though you are usually pretty on the money w/these sorts of issues, so I'm wondering about the sudden insecurity. Not that we need to know...which is why I'd suggest keeping anything else related out of the thread.

IMHO, FWIW, etc.

[CircleC]

I'm not surprised that you would be so cautious with this. I'm more comforted to know you are human, wasn't sure after all the great advice you were able to give me. she does sound VERY fragile. I'd guess she's having suicidal thoughts too. She seems too clear and calm about her problems, so it's not just an outburst. I would suggest getting a hold of someone who lives close to her, who loves her(family maybe), and let them know she needs someone close by right now. to listen.

[shh!]

Okay, guys. Got my butt in a wringer here and would appreciate a little commentary on how to best answer the following email I've just received. I'm concerned about saying a wrong thing, or saying a right thing in the wrong way. Since I got the damn thing rolling, I don't have a choice but to reply in some supportive way. But she just sounds VERY fragile right now, and I'm a little afraid of making things worse if I'm not very thoughtful and careful about how I respond...

Try this (it works for therapists who get paid lots of money to say this over and over and over again):

"I see... And how does that make you feel?"

Every now and then try throwing in:

"Wow, that's tough. What are you going to do?"

[whaywardj]

Well. Good points, all, guys. And offered with such sincerity. I'm humbled. Thank you. One or two merit a direct reponse by way of elaborating my position a little:

Shh!, you're absolutely correct. In typical male fashion, I overlooked the fact that, sometimes, people in distress don't need anything "fixed." They just want to be heard. Thanks for reminding me. Too often, we don't always read the full text of what someone means when they say, "I just a need a friend." Mea culpa.

Indi and Circle: What's got me off-balance here is that in that mail and the MANY others I've received from her over the weeks, I haven't detected even an IOTA of anger. That bothers me. As if she's lost all will and the slighest little puff of a wrongward blowing breeze -- or thought -- could shift her precarious balance toward even darker ends than she is now imagining. And, no, I'm not at all attached to her beyond having simple human compassion for her circumstances. I scarcely know her at all. No more or less than than I know any of you. Ever only talked as we talk here.

Moreover, I figured it was time on LF for me to climb down from the high horse of "giving advice" and do a little walking around on "receiving some" side of town. Glad I did.

Since I know some of you will be curious, here's what I did say in reply to her mail (before reading your kind commentaries):

"Very few really enjoy being alone. Perhaps you don't miss him as much as you miss exactly what you said: The companionship of what you wanted him to be.

We change. Perhaps you also miss your "old self." The person you were before you went through all this.

Whatever. Be that as it may, you've done what you've done and it's gone. You can't take any of it back or go back and re-do it in light of what you've discovered and who you've become.

Try to stop thinking about what was, what could have been or what might be. You're different than you were. Later, you'll be different again from what you now are.

Take some time for yourself in the present here-and-now to get to know this new person in your life.

Incidentally, I've felt as if I don't belong anywhere almost all my life as far back as I can remember. The feeling led me to many a troubled time, seeking out somewhere I could feel otherwise. It wasn't until I was in my middle forties that I realized it wasn't "not belonging" that I felt, but my own uniqueness which I did. I don't know which was worse for me. Feeling the weight of anguish of being lost, adrift and unwanted, or realizing it was all up to me an no one else to alter my outlook.

Certainly, the "aloneness," though wearisome and sad, was familiar and, therefore, a more comfortable state-of-being. And it had the added virtue of making it possible for me to lay my problems at someone else's doorstep. ("If only THEY had or hadn't this or that, then I would or wouldn't have one thing or the other.")

On the other hand, the "uniqueness" offered me total freedom from such preoccupations, but often left my mind a complete blank, and me utterly confused about what to think of anything. Especially who or what I was.

One was easy to have, but hard to carry. The other was hard to "get," but easy to carry. However, they both had at least two things in common: They made me want to die. One, because it made me feel my life wasn't worth living. The other, because it made clear I didn't know how to live my life. And both demanded I forsake any and all of my illusions about past or future things and focus my attention on the ever-present now.

Successfully negotiate the moment right in front of you, and the next moment will take care of itself. Without your help. Or your interference. Don't compare your moment with any other's. Don't let it matter that you may not handle it in the same way, or as quickly, or as neatly as someone else might (or appear to!), or might want you to.

Offhand, I'd say it's time now for you to re-learn how to have faith and trust in yourself, rather than in anyone else. How better to learn those lessons again than to be powerless and in pain for a time? Where you have no choice but (and opportunity!) to re-discover yourself and embrace yourself in ways you may have forgotten you could...from having counted on someone else to do it for you. Who, in the case of your man friend, couldn't. Don't let his failure become your burden, too, by believing you did anything less than the best you could at the time.

Small steps, (name deleted). Take small steps.

I'd also urge you to open your heart to your daughter in these matters. Excuse yourself, if you must. But, if you have any sort of positive relationship with her, make her privy to the inner workings of what you're experiencing now. You took care of her for most of her life. Let it be her turn to care of you a little while. This whole experience, however poor it seems, may be the VERY thing you both need to recognize each other as the individuals you really are; she seeing your personal despairing, perhaps, for the first time; you seeing how well she handles such a crisis, also, perhaps for the first time. And with that, also seeing what a fine job you've done, despite hardships, of instilling in her a strength of character she wouldn't otherwise have.

For what it's worth."

[whaywardj]

Try this (it works for therapists who get paid lots of money to say this over and over and over again):

"I see... And how does that make you feel?"

Every now and then try throwing in:

"Wow, that's tough. What are you going to do?"

Hehe. I see...uh-huh...and?...

So, you think I should PEVR her, do you, Shh!? (Pause whatever I'm doing. Empathize with her situation. Validate whatever she says or does. Then Resume whatever it was I was doing before she interrupted me.)

[shh!]

haha - for a minute there, I thought you said you should "PERV" her, and I was going to say that I didn't think NOW was the right time to be hitting on her...

Sadly, many women really DO want you to "PEVR" them, and resent actually being given constructive advice...

You are a lovely person to be friends with, hayward... Very patient and possessing a huge amount of empathy.

[Rosebud]

Hayward, I think you handled that perfectly. And I agree with shh, you are a very good friend and your able to hit points that most people wouldn't even think of.

[whaywardj]

But I don't have moobs like Tone does! WAHHH!

::obviously embarrassed. adolescent effort to change the subject of his own thread::

[Rosebud]

LOL... oh Hayward!! you still have e-peepee!