How to not fall in love?

[TheEvilJester]

There are two possible outcomes: either he does feel the same and we move forward or he doesn't and we go back to being friends - either one sounds better than what it is now. I get the feeling though that it will be the second thing and we end what ever this is right now. But I was already ready to give up on it, heck I already thought it WAS over and kind of made my peace with it...and now it's starting again...

You actually pretty well summed up what I was saying right there. Certainly no matter which outcome may result from you talking to him, it is better than you continuing to just be left wondering. To be analyzing every little thing he does and says and trying to interpret some hidden meaning to it.

And, also, as you put it yourself... You'd already reached a point of figuring it was over anywhere and preparing yourself to move on. So, if you talk to him and the end result is you two go your separate ways.... well, then that is no different than the conclusion you had reached on your own anyway. With one major and important difference.... At least then you will know for sure rather than having to feel like part of you will always wonder "What if?" "What if?" is a horrible question. Take it from a fella who knows.

Again, to me the major difference between do you wait or do you talk to him really boils down to you/how you feel. If you were fine with just waiting around for longer and hoping things progressed, I don't think you'd be here asking us about it, nor do I think you'd be debating it all that much. It seems to me (not that I'm automatically right, I could be wrong) that you have reached that point of AT LEAST needing to know if it is headed somewhere. Even if you don't necessarily have to have the "exclusive" talk or agree to "boyfriend/girlfriend" labels just yet.... you at least need to know the intention is for it to lead there and get an idea of whether your time frames match up enough.

I'll be here as long as you want to share. I swear, you are like my twin sister from another mister. LOL! So, I wanna see l'il sis get her happy ending.

[peace.fairy]

I came to the office on saturday to finish up some work. I actually really like coming to the office on saturday. Just to sit here alone and peacfully and do all my work relaxed and chilled without any distractions. I manage to do much more than any other day, when there're people around and everyone's stressed and running around and when 'my fella' (I am not sure how to name him;D) is not sitting across the room from me...

Anyways, was working all concentrated and calm and HE comes in! For some reason my heart strated racing like crazy (we were alone in the entire office). So we started chatting and he's being all flirty and cute, saying things like 'oh no why are you here, I won't be able to concentrate now..' and sat next to me and we had some laughs, talked about some work stuff and then worked for a while and left together after couple of hours. He drove me home on the way to his gym and we agreed to text each other later.

So he texted me later and we agreed to have dinner and watch this series we used to watch together. He picked me up and we had a really fun night, talked a lot (havn't been together in a while), we had a lovely dinner some wine and watched that series, smoked like before and it all was great as it used to be... And then we had breakfast together and talked for a while about work and programming stuff and sat together cuddling and then I left. Everything was as if nothing's changed.
Even a little better than before actually - I was much more relaxed the whole time and not afraid to say something and not thinking all the time how to be to make him like me more... As if I really cared less and just enjoyed myself. And he seemed more relaxed as well.

We of course didn't have 'the talk'. Was just too much fun and didn't feel like the right time for that. And I think I will wait a while with that anyways.
There was just this one thought lingering at the back of my head the whole time: 'it's not real'. Because we do everything as if we're together, hugging and kissing and cuddling (it's not like we're just friends and then have sex and that's it). But then it's all not real - as in we're not really together... I do believe he wants to spend time with me mostly because of sex. And I think if we talk, he wouldn't want anything more serious and he doesn't like me that much to want to be together so it all would just end. And to be perfectly honest - I can hardly imagine us as a couple (mayne it's just because at the moment I am mad at him for what I'll explain below)

I am at work now and my team manager/ senior front-end dev is sitting next to 'my fella' and fixing an old project I worked on when I first started here and they are talking about all the mistakes I made in not a very nice or professional way... And the two of them are really good friends and all that is making me feel very uncomfortable... I mean ok, I made mistakes there, what did I know - I was just starting out and did the best I could at that time... so invite me over and show them to me and explain it all not talk behind my back and especially in a kind of 'making fun at me' way when I can hear it all... And the seniour dev used to confirm my code all the time and didn't mention anything.

This of course makes my mind imediatelly go to 'I am going to get fired pretty soon..' And also 'HE is starting to hate me now probably', because that project was his and I did all the styling and wrote a lot of code not in the best way possible...but it was my first real project ever! For some reason this made me really mad. I guess if we sleep together I unconsciously expect him to be nice to me at work as well. Though we agreed to keep those things separate - it's proably more difficult..

Anyways, before this uncomfortable incident I decided to just continue whatever is happening with my fella, but to focus on myself much more and make myself no. 1 priority in my life, not him and all that stuff... I mean it would be the same as just ending it all and focusing on myself, but now I will still have some fun with him and someone to hug me sometimes... Just need to chill and keep a cool mind about it

[TheEvilJester]

That's a fine conclusion if that were really how you felt. But, again, it really doesn't seem like that is honestly how you feel no matter how much you may want to convince yourself it is. Like I said before, I hope I don't sound harsh as that is not my intention. No judgment. Believe me, I understand....

But you seem to keep hitting a point where you are done with all the "see where this goes" nonsense and you want to at least know that you two are headed in the same direction.... but then suddenly you'll have one good day with him and you'll be back to square one wanting to just wait it out. Who knows? Maybe in time he actually WILL make his intentions clear without you having to bring it up. ....But A) what if he never does? How long are you going to wait like this and torture yourself with doubt. B)Even if he DOES, how long will that take? How long will you just keep waiting around wanting more but not willing to go for it?

Focusing on yourself is definitely GREAT. And the thing is, you actually CAN do that AND have a relationship. Sure, it is much easier to do that prior to entering into a relationship, but you can do both.... except how do you expect to be able to do that with a relationship that just keeps making you doubt yourself and doubt the relationship?

On the topic of him and the other co-worker making fun of your early work... I wasn't there to witness/hear exactly what was said and done... but that sounds pretty unprofessional to me. It would be one thing if they were just teasing you lightly/you were in on the joke. But, if they were sitting there criticizing you and making fun of you for work on your FIRST PROJECT (who the Hell doesn't make mistakes early on?) that is NOT appropriate behavior of any co-worker or human being for that matter.... especially not one who is supposed to be your boyfriend (or something like that). It's one thing to want to keep your relationship private at work... but that doesn't have to mean he acts like an A hole.

I dunno, maybe I'm overreacting. Again, I wasn't there to really know the exact details. But, I can't help but wonder what even keeps you waiting on this guy. The relationship seems to provide you nothing but doubt, he seems to barely be able to put any effort into it, and when around other people he seems to be really disrespectful to you. There could be more to him that we don't see. So, I could certainly be wrong and maybe he is worth the chance to see if there really could be something there. I don't see it.... but I only have the details you share here so I could be missing the bigger picture...

But even if there IS something more and enough to see if there could be something there between you two.... you have to actually make that effort to see. To find out. Ideally it would be nice if you didn't HAVE to, but I just don't see how that would change since he hasn't seemed interested in moving things along beyond what they are now.

As always, best of luck to you. I really do hope that he makes things clear before you even have to bother to talk to him about it.... but if he doesn't I just hope you care enough about yourself that you do something once and for all to either get that ball rolling, or to go your separate ways if he's just not interested in taking you two to the next level.

[peace.fairy]

About that work incident - he wasn't really making fun - just laughed it off because the other guy is kind of our boss, so I understand that, though I wouldn't do the same. And then later on the same guy (the boss) also made fun of the same mistake with another co-worker. This time I was kind of in on the joke and he didn't really mean anything bad with it, but it is still really unprofessional and told me quite something about that guy. I don't understand how he can do that... Maybe I overreacted too, first of all - I really don't like criticism (who does of course!) but even when it's constructive and meaning well I still really really don't like hearing that I am doing something wrong - I know it's not a good quality and I am trying to work on it, but knowing this it's really possible I overreacted. Since later on that boss came to me to confirm my current code and was very friendly and gave good advice (maybe he realized that his prior behavior was rather unacceptable)...

About the other thing... I really appreciate everything you are saying. ESPECIALLY the things that might seem too harsh (btw, they don't seem harsh to me at all), because it is true. I think I am trying to convince myself something that's not real... The thing is I really don't want to have that talk with him and mainly for one reason: I am pretty sure of what he will say - that he doesn't see this going any further/ neither wants that - and it will all be over. And then for sure I will know that nothing's happening. And now I still have all those little 'what if's' that kind of give me hope that maybe... I know I know, sounds pathetic - I am even a bit ashamed to write this, but I hope you will understand. And I know I am saying I probably don't even want it, but if he told me he wanted to be together I'd definitely give it a go, I just don't think I care enough anymore to try and make it happen myself... And now I think that maybe he is thinking the same.. :o

Anyways, another reason why I was sure I wanted to end it and now I am not anymore is because this time was really different - I didn't feel anything really. I like him, he's really smart and interesting and sexy, but a little bit in a quirky way but also hot and he's adventurous and we have loads in common, but I felt nothing this time. That's why I said that I know for sure I am not in love with him - I didn't even bother to put on nice clothes going to his place on Saturday - just really didn't care. And the whole time I was totally myself - not trying to impress him or anything... It's like something clicked - I don't know how to explain it. Maybe that last month of him doing nothing totally proved to me that nothing serious can ever happen here and I shouldn't waste my time thinking about it. Or maybe I got so tired thinking about it that it's just too much and I am just done with it (on an emotional level).

That's also why I started thinking that maybe this 'friends with benefits' thing might actually work. I told myself before that if nothing happens with him, I am not gonna look for somebody else, at least for a while (and I really really don't want to) and if I really don't feel any emotional attachment to him maybe it can work - it's nice to have 'the benefits' after all.
And I think I am also a little mad at him for that month of nothingness - ok, he was sick and I didn't also do anything, and all that casual thing - he doesn't really 'have to' do anything - but still is it so wrong of me to expect him to at least say smth about that...?

I really want to feel complete in solitude and not NEED anyone else to make me complete. But still want to be with somebody. And now it feels the opposite - I want to be alone, but I feel like I NEED someone...I don't know if that even makes any sense...
And I think it's very wrong to start a relationship feeling like this... I have so many things I wanna do: gym, yoga, horse riding, drawing, meditation, learning to code better, getting my drivers license, rent my own apartment - I am still living in a student like flat with flatmates... I really wanna become this whole content person.

I am actually glad I haven't talked to him until now - feeling the way I am feeling now I would be much less upset if he said it's over. And I might still wait for a bit longer to talk to him. You ask me how long I would wait - initially I thought I'd give it 5-6 months 'to see how it goes' so that would be 2 more months tops. I really am not planning on being in this 'relationship' as it is now for years and years. I think 6 months is about enough 'to see how it goes'. Ideally of course I imagine love at first sight and knowing for sure within a few weeks that you are going to marry that person but we don't really live in fairy tales, do we? So I think if I can keep up this detached feeling and really focus on myself and becoming a content person I don't see anything wrong with having a little fun on the side And giving it a couple more months..
And what bothered me the most about it all was just not knowing what the heck this is. And now I am like 75% sure it's more like 'friends with benefits'. Maybe I still need to talk to him just to make sure, but I want to figure out how exactly I truly feel about all of this before talking to him about it. And maybe in that time he will make it clear on his own

[TheEvilJester]

Again, all of that is 100% fine if you truly can be okay with that approach. Especially if you really and truly are going to give it another two months or so and that is it (unless it actually does become something more serious). I certainly see no problem with another couple months or so.

Where this WOULD be a problem, though, is if you continue this back and forth flip flopping around on the subject. Which, again, I don't meant to imply it is like you are doing that on purpose. I know you are not. But, intentionally or not, you are NOT doing yourself any favors by continuing to just wait around hoping that things will just naturally resolve one way or the other (whether that means you two enter into a more serious relationship, or you two go your separate ways once and for all). So far, it seems like you will one day be certain you are just completely done.... and the next day you will be deciding you want to wait and see where it goes. Eventually, you have to make some kind of decision and actually stick to it.

I don't mean to imply it is an easy conclusion to draw, I'm just saying you have to do it eventually for your own sake. It sounds like maybe you are ready for that if it comes to it, but for now are just giving it a little more time. So, I hope that remains the case. IF he begins to show he does want something more serious during that time, great. If not, then that would really be the time to finally have that "where are we going" kind of discussion and decide if there really is any point to continue.

I hope things finally become clear for you soon enough, whichever direction that winds up being. Good luck to you.

[peace.fairy]

first of all - yayyy!! you came back! Where have you been?

and about my man... something's changed.
Almost couple weeks ago I just decided to stop caring about all this. Like how I went to his place and just really enjoyed everything for the time being not caring where this is all going.. And then afterwards I even talked to my roommate that I will just tell him that we should end it and jsut stay firends/ coworkers or whatever. So emotionally I was totally done with it and just did my own stuff.

Then last week he starts showing initiative:

He suggested and bought tickets for us to go to a play which is in a coule of weeks(!).
Then got irritated when he saw on fb that another coworker of ours was also going to that play...

Also was very attentive to me at work.. Randomly came over to help me with some old problem I had on a computer..

We went to lunch on friday, just the two of us and had a great time. Talked and laughed together and were both really relaxed and he even gave me a couple of compliments.

Then on saturday he followed me on instagram and sent me cat pictures

Then yesterday late in the evening I just waved at him on messenger and in a very cute way he asked 'why are you waving at me?' and sent me cute animal emojies :} and then called me and asked if I wanted to go for a walk with him. So we went for a walk and then smoked a joint together and went home. Had a great time though we didn't kiss, didn't hold hands or anything romantic.

so it got pretty interesting again and all this of course made me care again...

a friend of mine says that he most likely saw that i stopped giving a sh** and got scared he might lose his chance if he doesn't do anything... and started doing stuff.
I think it might be either that/or maybe he decided he wants to see where this might go or something towards that direction...
OR
he saw that I really don't care and am really not expecting anything more and thought that I accepted that we are just friends with benefits and he relaxed and just started being normal towards me.

whatever the reason, I enjoy what is happening and want to see the intention behind it and where it goes.
surely I want it to go somewhere, but I am well on my way to focusing on myself and he is really not the most important thing anymore so I'll give this a 2-3 months mostly and if it doesn't go anywhere then it doesn't :}

[Gary Griffin]

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[TheEvilJester]

Where have I been? What do you mean? Before that response, I am pretty sure the last time I was on was some time last week. Isn't like I've been gone long. LOL! Nice to know I was missed, though.

Anyway, it is nice that you two had a nice couple days together. And.... again..... I don't mean this to sound judgmental or harsh... but again, it was just a couple days/a few moments. One or two days, not to mention, where an outsider viewing the day you described could easily have assumed you were nothing more than friends. Or, heck, even brother and sister. As far as the day at work, I don't think that necessarily counts unless he flirted, or hugged you, or kissed you, or something like that. If what he did in the work situation was easily the same way he'd likely act to any other co-worker, then that really doesn't count one way or the other in the "Is this going anywhere" mystery.

You went to lunch and he gave you "a couple compliments?" You went on a walk where you didn't even so much as hold hands, kiss, or anything. What did you talk about during the walk? (If it was private, you don't have to answer that, but I was just curious.) So, again, one moment you say you are ready to just move on and end things (even if you don't necessarily intend to do so right away, you at least figure that is the inevitable end result)... but suddenly he throws you the slightest of bones and you seem to be right back at square one like maybe everything can be okay after all.

Believe me, I understand. I've been there myself. Sometimes when you want something/wish something could be more than it is it can be so hard to let that go. Part of you keeps hanging on to hope, grasping at straws hoping for something more. Part of you keeps waiting when really you are just wasting your time. Honestly... nothing would make me happier than to find out I was SO very wrong. To find out that he suddenly makes this grand gesture, realizes he wants to be with you, and becomes the man of your dreams. But, how long has this thread been active? How long have you two been dating...kinda? Honestly, with the way he treats this, it is much more likely that it will never go anywhere, and the more you let things just remain in this limbo of uncertainty, the more likely it is that it will just continue to be the same.

I could very well be wrong. I don't pretend to be psychic or an expert on human peoples. Those creatures can often been quite perplexing to me. But, it just seems to me that you don't get what you want out of this particular relationship. On the side of the coin, maybe he DOES get just what he wants. And that doesn't make him wrong... but nor does it make you wrong if this just isn't enough for you anymore.

You say you still have that time frame in your mind. A few more months at most. I hope you are right about that and are actually to get yourself to stick to it. But, in my mind "a few more months" should not mean that after a few more months you decide "Okay, obviously this isn't going anywhere.... but I'll just let things be however they will be and if it changes for the better, then that is great." Because, you may THINK you are accepting it, you may think you are okay with it, but really you'll just be dooming yourself to even more time with part of you just secretly hoping suddenly everything will change and this will become the story book romance for the ages. Take it from a fella who knows the feeling. Not saying this to judge, I'm saying this as somebody who has often in the past done this very same kind of mental mixed martial arts with my own mind.

So, at the very least, if those "few more months" come and go with no more certainty than you have now than one of two things have to happen. Either A) You decide enough is enough, you end things and you actually tell him this. (It can be a perfectly amicable break-up, since neither of you really did anything wrong... but it would just be a case of the situation not working for you anymore.) OR B) You decide you are done IF it isn't going anywhere, so you finally talk to him about whether you two are at least headed in the same direction, and you decide the future (if any) of the relationship based on that.

I hope this works out for you very soon in whatever way turns out to be best. Whether that means you two do become something more serious, or whether that means you two part ways and you some day meet the true man of your dreams. Heck, even if for nothing else than your own peace of mind so you can stop always having to wonder. I know, from experience, how torturous that can be. Good luck, twin sister from another mister.

[peace.fairy]

I really like reading your replies and your insights and I noticed I was really waiting for it for a few days so of course you've been missed:}}

Seems like you are kind of skeptical about this guy and his intentions and you might be right. Maybe he is not really intending for this to ever progress into anything more serious.

But recently things really changed. It used to be that for a few days everything is fine (he's throwing me a bone) and then it kind of gets quiet again and I am not sure what's going on again for a few days and then it repeats and this went on and on for couple months. And now - for the last 3-4 weeks or so it is steadily going one direction ('one direction' lol). Once when we were out (we met to have breakfast at a very cozy cafe before work) and we were talking about going away for a weekend, but he did have plans and some work to do this weekend so he said 'definitely in the future so let's put a pin on it'. And then said 'step by step'... Seems like we are slowly but 'stepping' towards something...

And about that we are going on walks and not even holding hands - I am not that worried about it. I used to date a guy who would always hold my hand and we would always kiss everywhere and couldn't keep our hands off of each other and then after a months he says he doesn't see it going anywhere and dumps me... So I would much rather have the way it is now - slowly but steady. And when we are watching movies or having breakfast - we are always cuddling and touching each other and hugging and he even initiates the 'goodbye kiss' lately...

Another thing - this morning we were just talking about me looking for an apartment and maybe taking over his once his rent is over, which will be in July, and he says 'I wonder how weird it'll be for me to come over once you live here' ... Again, maybe he just hopes this whole 'non-official whatever this is' goes on for months and months or maybe he does actually see it going somewhere... I seriously don't care anymore (well, of course I care a little still, but not as insanely as I used to before).

And I am kind of getting the feeling that maybe he did realize it's worth giving a shot, but he's just scared to get hurt or to hurt me or to mess it up and is taking it slow. Or maybe he saw that I am ok with whatever this is and relaxed and just thinks it is what it is and it will only be like that and is not even thinking about anything more serious...

And I am really ok with it. FOR NOW. I would still like this to become a real relationship eventually or to get it over with for real - it's not something I want to be stuck in forever. As I said, a couple more months and then if nothing changes I will definitely talk to him. Maybe even sooner.

Though lately it does feel as if it's heading towards THAT direction. Very slowly but it is. And I am not only saying this, because I so badly want it to be true that I only see what I want to see... I am not in love with him or anything, but I do like him a lot and I really enjoy whatever is happening now and I would of course get upset if all of a sudden he decided he doesn't want to keep seeing me anymore or smth...But I wouldn't be heartbroken and devastated. Anyways - couple more months and then as you said - only those two options. 1)Either we make it official or at least make it clear that we ARE both headed in that direction or 2) if he doesn't see it happening then we just end it.

I know this probably was a bit of a rambling of random thoughts, but in conclusion - I am sincerely fine with whatever this is for now and I am finally really enjoying what is happening rather than overthinking it. And whatever the outcome - I know I will be alright. So I am still hoping for the best (but not in the 'crazy in love fairy tale' kind of way) but am prepared for the worst as well. And I am really grateful to you for everything you wrote and for all your help - you did help me immensely :} I will make sure to let you know how this story evolves or ends :} So thank's again, my brother form another mother ;} and wish you the best of luck too as you always do for me;}}

[TheEvilJester]

I'm not necessarily skeptical of him. I don't know him well enough to feel one way or the other on that. I know only what you've shared with us. He could be a great guy for all I know. I'm just skeptical of any likelihood of him making any steps to take things further based on the history of what you've shared with us. And, again, even there I DO NOT judge him in the slightest. You two agreed to a sort of casual, see where it goes kind of relationship. So, he's really done nothing wrong in that regard.

It's just, again, that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to change your mind. It is great that you are okay with the casual thing FOR NOW. But, the very fact that you wanted something more shows that you DO want something more.... whether that is with him or not. Whether that is soon, or years from now, you want something more. There's nothing wrong with that either, just as there's nothing wrong with it if he does not.

You say lately things have been a little better, but again, based on what you shared I just don't see it. Which, don't get me wrong, the things that have happened lately are great and all. But, to me, so far they are just talk. Talk is nice and all... but there have yet to be any actual ACTIONS to back up his talk. And... hey, maybe they are coming. Like I said, I would be super happy to find out I'm wrong.

Bottom line, though, sounds like you are in a pretty good place for now with it. So, I just hope that remains the case either way. In time I hope that either things become clear without you even having to bother to ask, or that at least you two can finally have the talk about it and decide once and for all whether to become more serious or to go your separate ways.

As always.... Good luck to you.