Ex-girlfriend is stuck in a relationship with an abusive guy

[Zachi]

Don't mind this.
Just bumping this thread to make sure it doesn't get locked, for whenever it's time to write an update on my situation

[pcmaster]

While waiting for things to happen you could read this book - https://archive.org/stream/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy_djvu.txt

Maybe you can relate to it.

[Zachi]

Thanks, I appreciate you wanting to share a text with me. But no thanks.
I am not going to read something that literally starts out by mentioning the S-word right next to the word "love". I am very much against sexualization of love.

Sorry about my sudden negative attitude. I just can't help it, when I see something like this. It frustrates me so much... You couldn't know that... I know you are tempted to discuss this with me, but please don't. Or if you do, send me a private message instead, and then we will continue to talk about this particular subject in private.

But please, let's stop this RIGHT here, and avoid this thread turning into another discussion that never ends... If anyone has any comment in regards to why I am against sexualization of love, then you can send me a private message, but let's keep that topic out of this thread.

Expect an update in this thread, about my current situation in around 1,5 months.
By the way, it is official, that I am going to travel back to Kenya, and my mom will travel with me this time. It's a plan that I am going to meet with C, and have a long talk with her about everything. So in 1,5 months time, there will definitely be a lot of new info to share with you guys about how everything turned out. I'm travelling 27th of June.

[Hooo!]

I fail to see the whole point of this thread

You don’t change her situation
She doesn’t change her situation
You don’t change your situation

Talking about it seems pretty useless to me

[Zachi]

I see your confusion.
In the beginning I was just desperate to get it off my chest I guess. I was in a state of shock, and I couldn't sit with it alone. I had to share my story.
Since then, I think I just kept this thread alive, because I felt like I needed to share my situation with someone, and maybe get some good advices on how I should learn to cope with my situation. I must say, TheEvilJester has been a very good fellow for that purpose, and I definitely want to thank him for understanding my intentions and being there for me throughout this thread.

Now, the situation might change after I have talked to C in the beginning of July, since I am going to travel there again. And after that, I will update this thread, so you guys can know how everything turned out - since I assume those who have read this thread are curious, and I am also eager to share my story

I hope this clears out your confusion :-)

[Hooo!]

Yes I understand that some people just need to talk about their problem without wanting to fix it

I get this on the logical level
But emotionally I don’t understand. I just think it’s weird. Sorry

[Zachi]

That's okay, I take no offense. Can you please explain what you mean by "emotionally"? What is it that doesn't make sense to you?

[Hooo!]

You understand logically that you have little influence over the situation with C

You do not understand emotionally, that is why you can’t let go.


There are two ways of „getting it“.
If people really „get it“ they understand it emotionally and logically.

If you understand something on a logical level and yet don’t act on it, chances are you don’t understand emotionally.

My brother logically understands that it would be better to just make crap PowerPoints because that is what his professor likes, but emotionally he doesn’t think it’s better, so he doesn’t.

Writing this explanation I give examples, because the mere description will only make you logically understand the difference
Examples and a story make you grasp it on an emotional level

[TheEvilJester]

I see your confusion.
In the beginning I was just desperate to get it off my chest I guess. I was in a state of shock, and I couldn't sit with it alone. I had to share my story.
Since then, I think I just kept this thread alive, because I felt like I needed to share my situation with someone, and maybe get some good advices on how I should learn to cope with my situation. I must say, TheEvilJester has been a very good fellow for that purpose, and I definitely want to thank him for understanding my intentions and being there for me throughout this thread.

Why thank you. I'm glad if I could help even just in some small way. On a side note, I haven't checked out the book PC was talking about, but I do actually agree with you that I'm not a fan of the sexualization of love either. I mean, love should include sex, but to me sex is not the end all be all of a relationship. I won't go into further detail, though, since you didn't want this thread to go off topic, so I'll just leave it at the fact that I agree with you.

Back on topic.... I wish you the best and look forward to hearing your update. I hope it brings you a happy conclusion, no matter what that conclusion may be. And I hope it helps you move on in whatever form that may take. If fate sees fit to bring you and her back together, then great. If not, then I hope you find somebody special very soon. Best of luck.

[Zachi]

I should never have publicly posted my reaction in this thread, when I first opened the link to that book PC Master sent me. I should just have sent him a private message about it, without voicing my opinion about it here. Please, everyone, from now on, don't mention the S-word in this thread. It doesn't belong here. If you absolutely have to, then send me a private message instead. Thank you.

Edit: Yes pcmaster, I am against using genitals in a relationship. I don't see the problem with that. Genitals are for peeing and reproducing. You can't "make love" with them, and you shouldn't. Please, if you want to discuss this further with me, then send me a personal message. This thread is NOT about why I am against sex in relationships.

OKAY, so I just wanted to bump this thread to prevent it from getting locked. Apparently, it went out of hand.
So now, I might as well just post a little update about my current situation, that I previously planned to save for later.

So yeah, I am going to travel to Kenya again. I've talked to my mom about it, and we have come up with a compromise that I am very satisfied with. I am not going to spend my entire holiday in Kenya, but I'll be there for a short amount of time, and get one chance to meet with C and talk to her.

And by the way, I can still confirm that C has something for me. Yes, it still says on facebook that she is in a relationship with S, but she recently tried to call me on WhatsApp, while I had to ignore her call, and calmly explain to her, that I wouldn't want to talk to her, and be reminded that she belongs to someone else. I told her, that if she'd want to see me, she would have to break up with S first. I haven't heard from her since. But I can tell, that she thinks about me, and she definitely wants to see me. The real question is: How much does she really want this? Will she ever reach a point where she makes up her mind about leaving S, to be with me? Will she ever truly realize the damage she has done, and do what she needs to do, to make things good again, and convince me that she deserves my love again? I guess I will find out, when I get to see her again in Kenya. But as previously mentioned, no matter what she says, I will not just be naive and jump right into a relationship with her again. If she's telling me that she's serious about me, then she needs to prove it over time. First she needs to break up with S, and let it say "single" on her profile. Then she needs to remain single for 3 months, to prove to me that it is truly over between her and S. I know, that S would definitely insist that their relationship is official on facebook, if they are together, so following up on her facebook relationship status, is all I need to do, to know if she can prove her loyalty to me. It might seem like a long time for her having to wait for 3 months, but she must understand that she should be lucky even to be given the chance to get back with me, after betraying me not once, but twice. If she truly loves me, she should also be able to wait, and receive her reward with patience... And I will even agree to be a passive friend to her meanwhile...


So here is the plan:

27th of June - I travel to Kenya, and I meet with my host on arrival the 28th - the same guy as the previous times I have stayed a Kenya. A very helpful and great man to have by my side, living with his wife and children.

2nd of July My mom will arrive too, but she will stay at a hotel. I have promised my mom not to try and meet with C at all, or arrange anything until my mom arrives too.

Then, together with my mom, me and my host will talk to C's mom about how I want to arrange a meeting with C, where I can get to talk to her about our past together, and we can sort out our things, and all of that stuff. The good thing here is, that C's mom really likes me, and she hates S. Last time I was in Kenya, she didn't allow S to get near her home. So if she can get C to come to her home one day, then I will be safe to go there and talk to C. My mom also want this to happen on our last day in Kenya, so that if S finds out somehow, I will already be gone, to minimize the risk.

Meanwhile I will hopefully have a lot of fun, and work on some documentary projects with some of my other Kenyan friends. So it won't be all about C...

9th of July Me and my mom will travel from Kenya to Zanzibar and stay there for the next 2 weeks (an island in Tanzania)

After talking to C, no matter the outcome, I will agree to be her friend again, and stay in touch with her on the phone.

24th of July I will be back home

This is the plan, and I will probably update this thread, and explain everything that happened, after my vacation.

* It could be, that C will tell me that she's happy to be with S, and that I would have to move on. It will hurt, but if she can tell me that with her own words in private without the influence of S or anyone else that could prevent her from speaking from her own heart, I will have to accept it and move on. Although... I don't think I can ever accept C loving a guy who is rude to everyone and especially me... But there's a difference between accepting and respecting. If that's what she wants, I will respect her decision, but never truly accept it inside... But I will eventually move on.

* Or maybe (which is the most likely outcome) C will keep my hope alive, and tell me that she wants to get back with me. But then this will go on for long, and I will eventually see if she really means it, or not...

[pcmaster]

Im against selling sex too, but book is not sexualising love. Read it for hours and word sex was mentioned maybe 2-3 times.

Anyway OP is against using genitals in relationship. So thats the real problem here, not some random girl from the past.

[Zachi]

OKAY, so I just wanted to bump this thread to prevent it from getting locked. Apparently, it went out of hand.
So now, I might as well just post a little update about my current situation, that I previously planned to save for later.

So yeah, I am going to travel to Kenya again. I've talked to my mom about it, and we have come up with a compromise that I am very satisfied with. I am not going to spend my entire holiday in Kenya, but I'll be there for a short amount of time, and get one chance to meet with C and talk to her.

And by the way, I can still confirm that C has something for me. Yes, it still says on facebook that she is in a relationship with S, but she recently tried to call me on WhatsApp, while I had to ignore her call, and calmly explain to her, that I wouldn't want to talk to her, and be reminded that she belongs to someone else. I told her, that if she'd want to see me, she would have to break up with S first. I haven't heard from her since. But I can tell, that she thinks about me, and she definitely wants to see me. The real question is: How much does she really want this? Will she ever reach a point where she makes up her mind about leaving S, to be with me? Will she ever truly realize the damage she has done, and do what she needs to do, to make things good again, and convince me that she deserves my love again? I guess I will find out, when I get to see her again in Kenya. But as previously mentioned, no matter what she says, I will not just be naive and jump right into a relationship with her again. If she's telling me that she's serious about me, then she needs to prove it over time. First she needs to break up with S, and let it say "single" on her profile. Then she needs to remain single for 3 months, to prove to me that it is truly over between her and S. I know, that S would definitely insist that their relationship is official on facebook, if they are together, so following up on her facebook relationship status, is all I need to do, to know if she can prove her loyalty to me. It might seem like a long time for her having to wait for 3 months, but she must understand that she should be lucky even to be given the chance to get back with me, after betraying me not once, but twice. If she truly loves me, she should also be able to wait, and receive her reward with patience... And I will even agree to be a passive friend to her meanwhile...


So here is the plan:

27th of June - I travel to Kenya, and I meet with my host on arrival the 28th - the same guy as the previous times I have stayed a Kenya. A very helpful and great man to have by my side, living with his wife and children.

2nd of July My mom will arrive too, but she will stay at a hotel. I have promised my mom not to try and meet with C at all, or arrange anything until my mom arrives too.

Then, together with my mom, me and my host will talk to C's mom about how I want to arrange a meeting with C, where I can get to talk to her about our past together, and we can sort out our things, and all of that stuff. The good thing here is, that C's mom really likes me, and she hates S. Last time I was in Kenya, she didn't allow S to get near her home. So if she can get C to come to her home one day, then I will be safe to go there and talk to C. My mom also want this to happen on our last day in Kenya, so that if S finds out somehow, I will already be gone, to minimize the risk.

Meanwhile I will hopefully have a lot of fun, and work on some documentary projects with some of my other Kenyan friends. So it won't be all about C...

9th of July Me and my mom will travel from Kenya to Zanzibar and stay there for the next 2 weeks (an island in Tanzania)

After talking to C, no matter the outcome, I will agree to be her friend again, and stay in touch with her on the phone.

24th of July I will be back home

This is the plan, and I will probably update this thread, and explain everything that happened, after my vacation.

* It could be, that C will tell me that she's happy to be with S, and that I would have to move on. It will hurt, but if she can tell me that with her own words in private without the influence of S or anyone else that could prevent her from speaking from her own heart, I will have to accept it and move on. Although... I don't think I can ever accept C loving a guy who is rude to everyone and especially me... But there's a difference between accepting and respecting. If that's what she wants, I will respect her decision, but never truly accept it inside... But I will eventually move on.

* Or maybe (which is the most likely outcome) C will keep my hope alive, and tell me that she wants to get back with me. But then this will go on for long, and I will eventually see if she really means it, or not...

[TheEvilJester]

I think it only gets locked if there are no posts within a 30 day period, so you don't necessarily have to bump it this frequently. Just approximately once a month if there was no other activity on your thread.

Anyway, it sounds like you have a good plan outlined. You know from my previous responses that it isn't necessarily what I would personally recommend. But, given the way you wanted to proceed, given what you want (which is that you want to leave the option open for her to come back) I think you have a good plan outlined. It is maybe even a really good idea to meet with her on the last day you are going to be there. That way, as you mentioned yourself, if S WAS going to try to cause any crap with you because of it, you'd already be gone. Hopefully he'd not cause any drama anyway, but this way at least you avoid the issue. I would GENERALLY not suggest going behind somebody's back like this. Under normal circumstances I'd suggest C should at least be honest with S about the conversation she needs/wants to have with you. But, this may be a situation where discretion is better given the concern of him possibly doing something unsafe.

Best of luck to you. I look forward to hearing more details after your discussion with her. Since it seems to be what you want, then for your sake I hope she finally realizes her mistake and begins to take actions to remove S's harmful influence from her life and to begin to find her way back to you. Good luck.

[Zachi]

I kind of wanted not to update this thread until after my vacation, but I feel like these news are too big not to share!

So long story short: S and C broke up

Here's what happened, and how I found out. Two days ago, I was on facebook as usual, when I was notified that C had liked one of my recent posts, where I had posted some pictures from my job as a child caretaker, where the kids are playing with my dreadlocks. Furthermore, she had pressed "love" to a birthday greeting I posted on her mom's timeline, that included a picture, from when I was in Kenya, celebrating my own birthday, and her mom gave me a necklace.

It made me check her account immediately, and I noticed how it now only said "in a relationship" in her status, and not "in a relationship with S". I checked S's facebook, and the same change had happened. Then I noticed that C and S was no longer friends on facebook, so it made me realize that the relationship status was changed, since you can only be in a tagged relationship with one of your facebook friends. I then checked WhatsApp, and S used to have a couple picture there, but it was changed to a picture of himself only, like 5 minutes ago at the time I checked. On top of that, I had also noticed how S didn't like or love any of C's new pictures of herself she posted recently on her facebook about a week ago (week ago... Throws hat) (meme joke... Anyways moving on), which I found quite odd, considering he always likes them.

So I was maybe 65% sure they broke up, and 35% that they just had a few temporary problems in their relationship... But then yesterday, C unliked and reliked my pictures from my job as a caretaker, so I played along and unloved and reloved her profile picture...

Then yesterday evening, one of our mutual friends from Kenya who knows both me and C very well, told me he had some message from C. I asked him what it was, but he didn't reply...

Before going to bed yesterday, I decided to send this to C anyway:

"Hey C! Did you break up with S? I see you removed your friendship with him on facebook, but it still says "in a relationship" on your profile, so I am not sure... But if it's true, and you still want me back, I just want to let you know that it's still possible. Just remember, you betrayed me and broke my heart twice, so don't expect it to be easy. If you truly want this, then you need to change your status to "single", stay away from S for good, and have the patience it takes to convince me, that it is truly over between you two. Because I am NOT taking a chance again, and get my heart broken again. Be single for long enough to convince me, and my heart is yours.

I will be in Kenya in July, and I will let you know when I am there, so we can meet and talk about everything at your mom's place. I have a lot of questions about our past, and a lot of things I want to clearify with you. This will be your chance to convince me, if you still want me back

See you soon! Zach"

This morning, our mutual friend from Kenya finally replied with:

"C misses you, and since you went, she keeps thinking about you. And she wants to move to Nairobi (capital city of Kenya) to avoid S. She still loves you, but she doesn't know how to tell you, and it hurts her how she made you cry. She wants to apologize a lot."

Now, the day I was waiting for has finally arrived. But for some reason, I am not actually as happy as I thought I would be. And I think it's because of how sceptical I am. What happens now reminds me of the same story I was told when I arrived in Kenya last time. C also said a lot of bad things about S, and she sounded very confident about not wanting to have anything to do with S anymore. She managed to fool all of us, into believing her, but in reality, only a few weeks passed, and I found out that they were still together. It seems like the same story is going on now. She wants to move to a different town to avoid S, she is very apologetic, she misses me... And that's nice to know. But seriously, who moves out of town, just because of a broken relationship? Is this some sort of an attempt at making me believe her, or is she seriously considering to move? By the way, I hope she doesn't move, because she needs to be an independent woman, and not worry about her ex, just because he lives in the same town. That's ridiculous... If she doesn't want him, she shouldn't bother about him... But S shouldn't stop her from living there!

Anyways, I have learned not to be naive. There's still a likelihood that within a couple of weeks, C and S will be back together again. I have heard the story before about how they break up, get back together, break up, get back together, etc. And it always seems so dramatic, but considering how C has gone through being beaten by S, and STILL stayed with him in the past, I am far from convinced yet... But who knows? Let's hope that THIS time, she has learned something. She finally sees it. She finally knows how to put an end to this once and for all.

So what I was thinking is, I want to give it 3 months, where I am only her friend. And then if she is still single, and there are no signs of S having an influence in her life after 3 months, then we can progress. I talked to my friend about this idea in Denmark, before they broke up, and she thought 3 months sounded like a lot. But I feel like it's what it will take to make me comfortable engaging in a new relationship with her, without worrying about being betrayed again...

But I don't know... What do you guys think? Is it too long to insist she waits, or is it fair?

[TheEvilJester]

Well, that is at least a good start. Who knows if the breakup will last, but couples who break up and get back together all the time (as it seems you said they do) almost never last. Inevitably the break up almost always becomes permanent at some point. So, if nothing else this says that most likely in time the two of them will be a thing of the past for good.

Honestly, I would have told you (if you hadn't already reached out to her) not to bother reaching out to her yet. Give her time to come to you first. You've already shared with her that there could still be a window for you two to get back together. You even shared with her how that would have to happen. But yet now the moment you hear they supposedly broke up you are immediately reaching out to her and reminding her of all that again? It could be making you look desperate when I am sure that isn't your intention.

And, don't get me wrong. I 100% understand that temptation. You want closure. Whether that comes in the form of you two getting back together, or you two parting ways for good remains to be seen... But either way you at least want to know so you can move on with your life. I 100% understand that. But, sometimes in life you can't rush things. She JUST broke up with him... and from your own knowledge of their history, sometimes they break up and then get back together.

Who even knows if they will stay broken up this time? Give it time. When you make your trip, I'd say still reach out to her to see if she wants to meet up because you were going to do that anyway. So, why would this change that? But, other than that I would personally not reach out to her at all. She already knows she has not burned that bridge with you yet. She knows she'd have work ahead of her to get back to you if she wants. So, let her decide if she wants.

The other advice I'd offer for if she DOES decide she wants to win you back... Take it all as it comes. Don't constantly remind her "If we are going to get back together, I need XYZ and this and that." You've shared that already. If things are moving too fast and you don't feel comfortable enough yet that she has earned back your trust, I'd more recommend saying something like "I just need more time. I'm not there yet. But I have been really enjoying our time together. If it all continues to go as well I could see us getting there soon."

If she actually decides to try to win you back, the last thing you want to do is constantly remind her of how she did you wrong. Constantly remind her of how she needs to win you back in the first place. If you see she's putting in a sincere effort, then just give her the chance to do that.

On the other hand, if she decides not to try to win you back, then I would say that is your chance to let go of her once and for all. I hope it doesn't have to come to that since it seems you want her to win you back. But, you deserve somebody who will appreciate you. If that can't be her, then it will be somebody else some day.

Best of luck to you either way.