Ex-girlfriend is stuck in a relationship with an abusive guy

[Zachi]

(Small update: ...Both of their facebook profiles now say "Single", and her hometown has been changed to Nairobi... The breakup seems very serious this time...)

Once again, thanks for sharing your point of view. You have some good points there... Some people are way too optimistic and naive, and other people are just like "Forget her and move on". I really appreciate how you're not that small-minded, and you always see the different opportunities.

However, just to make my way of seeing things a bit more clear...
Imagine a situation where your closest friend, or maybe your sister has gotten an alcohol addiction. So they have been on the wrong path for long, drinking from day to night, drinking to solve their problems etc. Now finally they quit, and they are on the right path. So you want to cheer for them. You want to support them, and keep reminding them that they are on the right path, and motivate them to stay there.

I kind of feel like this, according to C. Afterall, she is my friend, and I do not only wish for her to be with me, but also to not be with a guy who treats her wrong, and that everybody thinks of as a jerk. As a friend of C, I am really happy that she is out of that relationship, and therefore, it's difficult for me to play hard-to-get and pretend that I'm like "meh...", now that she actually 'quit' her "addiction" to S.

Another reason, I decided to remind her that she still had a chance with me, was because last time I told her something similar, I insisted that she should break up with S "now" if she wanted to get back with me, or else she would lose her chance. And since it took her 1,5 months to do so, she might think that all hope was lost. So I just wanted to make sure she knew...

It's difficult not to get soft, when you still have a soft spot for someone in your heart, but I don't think I failed at making her learn her lesson. She had to deal with not being able to talk to me since February, and furthermore, she's going to accept only being my friend for the next 3 months-time, in order to regain my full trust in her, which is hopefully going to teach her something...

...

Anyways, I will take your advice into consideration as I progress, and travel there again. Of course, I can't promise I will follow the advice you give me, since it's my decision what I choose to do in the end, but nonetheless, I will consider them, and keep your words in the back of my head

- - - Updated - - -

(Small update: ...Both of their facebook profiles now say "Single", and her hometown has been changed to Nairobi... The breakup seems very serious this time...)

Once again, thanks for sharing your point of view. You have some good points there... Some people are way too optimistic and naive, and other people are just like "Forget her and move on". I really appreciate how you're not that small-minded, and you always see the different opportunities.

However, just to make my way of seeing things a bit more clear...
Imagine a situation where your closest friend, or maybe your sister has gotten an alcohol addiction. So they have been on the wrong path for long, drinking from day to night, drinking to solve their problems etc. Now finally they quit, and they are on the right path. So you want to cheer for them. You want to support them, and keep reminding them that they are on the right path, and motivate them to stay there.

I kind of feel like this, according to C. Afterall, she is my friend, and I do not only wish for her to be with me, but also to not be with a guy who treats her wrong, and that everybody thinks of as a jerk. As a friend of C, I am really happy that she is out of that relationship, and therefore, it's difficult for me to play hard-to-get and pretend that I'm like "meh...", now that she actually 'quit' her "addiction" to S.

Another reason, I decided to remind her that she still had a chance with me, was because last time I told her something similar, I insisted that she should break up with S "now" if she wanted to get back with me, or else she would lose her chance. And since it took her 1,5 months to do so, she might think that all hope was lost. So I just wanted to make sure she knew...

It's difficult not to get soft, when you still have a soft spot for someone in your heart, but I don't think I failed at making her learn her lesson. She had to deal with not being able to talk to me since February, and furthermore, she's going to accept only being my friend for the next 3 months-time, in order to regain my full trust in her, which is hopefully going to teach her something...

...

Anyways, I will take your advice into consideration as I progress, and travel there again. Of course, I can't promise I will follow the advice you give me, since it's my decision what I choose to do in the end, but nonetheless, I will consider them, and keep your words in the back of my head

- - - Updated - - -

Ah sh.. LoveForum.net is so slow, I lost my patience and accidentally posted the same message twice. Sorry about that. My previous message is only half as long, because it repeats itself half way through

- - - Updated - - -

Ah sh.. LoveForum.net is so slow, I lost my patience and accidentally posted the same message twice. Sorry about that. My previous message is only half as long, because it repeats itself half way through

[pcmaster]

I think you just want to get anything you can. Despite that you wasnt her first choice and she choosed other guy instead of you. You waited like a beta male all this time while you could have experienced more than ever before with girls in new relationship. Okay now when her plan A is failed she could turn to you - her plan B. But funny thing is that it could actually work for you two. Cause you re damn stalker and wont leave her alone anyway.

[Zachi]

Me being a stalker? Haha...
I think you haven't followed up on my story from the beginning, pcmaster, because your interpretation of this is quite off.

She's obviously more desperate to be with me, than I am to be with her. Although I truly want her back in my life, I also want to feel safe about accepting her again as a girlfriend, by waiting until she has proved her loyalty, by remaining single for a while first.

If she could have it the way she wanted, then we would be back together already now. She's very much into me, and I am actually the one who's planning to friendzone her, until I feel like I am ready to trust her and accept her wish of being her boyfriend again.

I think you should read this thread properly, before being too quick to draw conclusions

[pcmaster]

I read your last post and you didnt mention any of this. You keep changing your mind.

[TheEvilJester]

Once again, thanks for sharing your point of view. You have some good points there... Some people are way too optimistic and naive, and other people are just like "Forget her and move on". I really appreciate how you're not that small-minded, and you always see the different opportunities.

Thank you. I am happy if I am able to help in any way, even if just to help you think things through yourself.

And what you mention is actually something I usually try to do in most of these discussions. Often times I do have my own opinion. I mean, as I've said with you, I don't disagree with the others who have said you'd be better off just letting her go completely. I just know that sometimes you can't help what/who you want, and if you would really much rather give her the chance to find her way back to you, then black and white advice like telling you to forget her and move on is not really going to help. Sometimes you just have to go with what feels right for you. That way, if it goes well then that is great and you were right to keep trying.... but if it doesn't go well at least you knew you tried.

So, I often do try to give advice for both sides of the argument. Of course, not in some cases. Like, if somebody were coming to us because they were stuck in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship, I could not in good conscience give them any advice other than that they'd be better off without a toxic influence like that in their life.

In your case, though, it more just sounds like this gal didn't appreciate you when she had you and then wound up with a bad person. Now that she's gotten away from him, MAYBE she could see the mistake she made letting you go and maybe you two could succeed now where you did not before. If not, if nothing changes and you two aren't going to work out... well, you'll find that out in time anyway. But, in your case you may ultimately feel a lot better if you try and it doesn't work out rather than if you just gave up now. You deserve that peace of mind, so if this is how you get it who am I to tell you not to go for it? Especially given that maybe it WON'T fail this time. Maybe it will, but maybe it won't.

Anyway, I know I keep seeing this, but I truly mean it.... Good luck to you! I truly hope this works out for the best for you, in whatever way that may be in the end.

[Zachi]

Alright, so I think I genuinely need some advice now. Most of the time throughout this thread, I've mostly posted in it, because I wanted to get some things off my chest, but now I actually feel like I need some advice.

So C wanted to call me, so I said it was okay, but I wouldn't want to talk about all the important stuff yet. I told her we should wait with that until I come to Kenya, but I was willing to small-talk. So she called me on WhatsApp today, after writing a text to me first about being sorry about everything that has happened. It was weird seeing her there on my screen again. It felt like I was taken right back to the time we were in a relationship. It wasn't necessarily a good feeling, because I was also reminded of all the video-calls I had had with her during times where I was very suspicious about her behavior, which used to keep me from truly enjoying the relationship...
Anyways, she is really shy, so I had to be the one talking most of the time. She kept smiling at me, and I tried not to smile too much, because I am definitely not over everything that has happened yet... But I couldn't help but be a little soft, of course. We didn't talk about anything serious, just like I wanted, just about where we were, what time of day it was here, and when I would come to Kenya, and stuff like that...

So after the call she texted me that she was a bit shy, but she did miss me, and wished me a good evening. I told her that her shyness was the reason I fell in love with her to begin with, and that I had also missed her, but sometimes been really mad at her for loving a guy that hates me, and that I was not over it yet, but with time, I would eventually, if she would continue to stay on the right path. And then she wrote this:

"I didn't love him because he hates you
I stayed with him because he promised
me that he will change but I was
wrong. I thought he will prove
everyone wrong but he prove them
right. Please forgive me please I beg you
(praying and crying emotions)"

(A picture of a drawing she made saying
"I missed you so much")

"I am sleeping now, and please
forgive me I beg you for the bottom of
my heart (more sad smileys)"

I haven't responded yet, because this is where I want your advice...
So obviously, she is putting in a genuine effort on apologizing. What would be my best move now? The issue is, I actually wanted to avoid this happening now. I wanted her to apologize when seeing me in Kenya. Not now over a text... And now I am also reminded of the times she betrayed me, and I can definitely say, that it still affects me a lot, and it drives me slightly insane just thinking about everything that has happened. I can't just say "Okay, it's fine, I forgive you", because the only way I can truly forgive her, is if she can prove herself with time. Of course, it heals my heart a bit that she's genuinely apologizing, but how tough/soft should I be? That's my question now. I don't want to get too soft, and make her feel like she has apologized, and that everything is alright. It will take a lot of time for her to truly win back my trust.
But I also don't want to be really unfair to her, and give her the impression, that I do not appreciate her effort of apologizing. I mean, she's doing the right thing now.
So... what's my best move now?

[Zachi]

(Read post above first)

Alright, so since I did not get a response in the thread for a while, I decided to figure out what to reply myself, and I came up with a thorough explanation saying that I truly appreciate her effort of apologizing, but she must understand, that in order for me to forgive her and for my heart to heal completely, it would have to take a few months, and then after that I would be able to start loving her again.

Now, she's having a hard time coping with that. She's telling me that it makes her feel like I don't want her in my life. I am trying to make her understand me, and it's like she's taking things in the wrong way. Because, sure I want her in my life, but I just want her to respect that I don't want to rush things, after being betrayed twice, and that my heart needs to heal too. So anyways, she requested another video-call, and I agreed. She told me that it makes her cry everytime she thinks about what she did. She had genuine tears in her eyes when she said that. It's tough seeing her cry, because of how I can't forgive her right away, because she truly feels bad, I can tell from the look of her, and I feel like telling her that she shouldn't feel bad, but I don't actually think she shouldn't feel bad. Seeing her feel bad over what she did, proves to me, that she's doing the right thing, and she's learning from her mistakes. I try to tell her that, and motivate her to at least be happy that she is doing the right thing, but obviously she wants me to forgive her completely. She finds it very difficult to cope with...

But among other things, we have also talked about some of the stuff I actually wanted to wait with, because we needed to talk about something anyways. She's telling me a lot of insane stories about S beating her up, making it impossible for her to leave him, until now where, after he mistreated her again, despite promising her that he would change, she has finally had enough, and taken the change to run away and leave him. I also asked her if I should be afraid of my safety when I come, but she says that S can't do anything to me, because he is afraid of the police. She even started laughing when I asked her about that. She's very much into me, and the way she talks to me, also makes me feel loved inside. To be honest, it feels like I am talking to my girlfriend again. In other words, she is making me fall in love and again with her. She is making me feel like she is my girlfriend. She's making me want to just let it go, and enjoy what I can have with her, now that I have the chance, rather than waiting. She makes it seem so unnatural to insist on being her friend, BUT we are still just friends though...

I feel like she is rushing me to be her boyfriend again, and I am not ready to trust her already. I am so afraid of getting my heart broken, and if I could have it the way I wanted, then I would still want to wait AT LEAST until I meet with her in Kenya, to start getting closer to her again. I don't like the way she makes me feel like doing the opposite of what I planned to.
Is there an appropriate way I can try to distance myself from her? I was thinking about turning off WhatsApp notifications, so that I don't end up in too many active chat-sessions with her...

In one way, I feel good about what I am doing. I am just giving her a taste of what I am like as a guy. I mean, I am doing this because it was her request to talk to me. And if she wants to remind herself of me, then I have nothing against that. But I just don't like the way it makes me fall back in love with her again, before I am ready to...

Damn. I feel like I am weak.

[Zachi]

No one is commenting, and new things are happening all the time

C has been wanting to call me everyday, and I have accepted it all, because well, if she wants to remind herself of me, I have nothing against that. I tried to insist we should only small-talk, but we quickly ran out of meaningless things to say, and starting talking about the more serious topics - about the past, and about how her abusive relationship with S had been like etc. - However I have often stopped her, because I wanted to schedule all of that, for when we meet again in Kenya, and we can go through everything from the beginning together.

I tried to hold on to our position of only being friends. I thoroughly explained to her, both over text and over calls, how I didn't think any of us was ready for a relationship yet, and that my heart would have to heal from the wounds. But everytime I told her, I could just see how hurt she felt. And inside of me, it also felt so damn unnatural for me to insist that we should only be friends. I knew I did this, in order to avoid being heartbroken, in case she would change her mind and go for someone else. But I started to wonder, if it was a bad idea. Because maybe, forcing this unnatural friendzoning between us, would end up hurting both of us more, than just letting go of it, and being together again...

Just a side note:
C has told me that she understands her place, and that she is accepting the fact that she needs to have patience, to win back my love for her. So she is not desperately trying to change my mind into being with her again. She is very humble now, after everything that has happened. However, I can still see it in her face when we talk, how hurt she feels about being friendzoned, and hurting a girl that I love just feels so wrong... Especially because of how unnatural it also feels for me to friendzone her, when I truly love her.

So I've been thinking a LOT about my relationship to C. What do I truly want for her? And I think I have come up with the conclusion, that I just want her to be happy. Even if being happy means to be with someone else. I know she can't be happy with S, but I've promised myself that IF she finds out, that I am not the guy she wants, and there is someone else (apart from S) out there, that she feels like she wants in her life rather than me - then I have to accept it and try to be happy about knowing, that at least she is happy - and her happiness is more important than my happiness. And right now, being with me, is what would make her happy, so that was the turning point for me, that caused me to decide, that I should let it happen again

Yesterday night, when we had a call, (and it lasted for over an hour) I took the decision, and I decided to tell her how I felt that it was unnatural for me to friendzone her, and that I just wanted to let it go, so we could be together again. She was so happy afterwards. I could feel her relief, and I felt a big relief too. But I told her, that I wouldn't want our relationship to be official yet. So it still says "Single" on both of our facebook profiles. The reason for that is, that IF she changes her mind, then she is not "tied" to me. I love her, and that means I'd set her free at anytime, as long as I know she will be happy.

Of course, when I told her that I would be okay with it, if she'd change her mind and be with someone else, she interrupted me with "No no no no no!" and told me, that she promised she would never hurt me again, never betray me again, and all that kind of stuff. But at least she knows now.

So, of course I am afraid of getting my heart broken again. But I've decided to be prepared that it might happen again. Of course she refuses that it will happen again, but still, I keep reminding myself about the probability. Her loyalty is still being tested. And it might fail. But I am enjoying every moment of our new relationship, and I keep reminding myself, that even if our relationship fails, then the most important thing is, that she is happy and free

[TheEvilJester]

Well, I wish I had been able to get here before. I didn't have time to get back to this site until today, so I am just now seeing all of your updates. It may be a little too late for what I would have personally suggested. Which was that you should have just kept your distance for now. That doesn't mean you had to tell her to take a hike, and that you wanted nothing to do with her until your trip there. But, the constant, daily contact is really no good for either of you.

Unfortunately, it sounds like that advice comes too late, since you have already made the decision to accept her back. I'm not saying that decision is right or wrong... I just personally think it was probably the wrong time. As result of you talking to her basically every day, you were doing pretty much exactly what I would have suggested you not do.... and that is that you were constantly talking about, and constantly reminding her of what she did to hurt you in the past, and all that she had to do to get you back. Believe me, I know that wasn't your intention.... but when you keep telling her over and over that she needs to do this and that, she needs to show her loyalty for at least two months, etc. etc. then it DOES make it seem/feel to her like you are making her jump through hoops to win you back.

When, truth be told, your expectations were 100% reasonable. It's just, you made your wishes perfectly clear. They didn't need to be restated again and again. All that does is exactly what it did... make her doubt whether you actually wanted to accept her back at all. It would have been much better to tell her that you are still open to trying again, but that you need some time to process everything. Then maybe you two talk here and there before your visit... but you keep that to a minimum.

Now, I DO think you have a really good attitude that what you want is for her to be happy, even if that ultimately winds up meaning she is happy without you. ...The thing is, that SHOULD NOT mean that her happiness is allowed to come at the expense of yours. At the expense of hurting you. Hopefully that doesn't happen.... but by accepting her back before you were truly ready, you've made yourself vulnerable to that possibility. Don't get me wrong. Sometimes in life you do just have to take what you want. So, ultimately maybe you accepting her back will windup being the right choice. I hope it is. It's just, if it is ultimately what is right... it likely would have been just as right in X months of however long you needed to feel okay about the situation.

Anyway, that's all just a lot of blah blah blah. The TL;DR version is that I think maybe you should have stuck to your original plan... but that since you decided to take her back now rather than waiting that I wish you the best and hope it works out for you.

For now, I guess if I was going to give you advice based on where things stand now, I think it would be to just take it easy. Don't completely let your guard down like everything is just A-okay now. She does still need to prove that she can change. That things will work this time where they didn't before. At the same time, though, don't rub it in her face that she needs to change/earn you back/work to keep you. I know that isn't your intention at all, but if you keep reminding her of it, it can come across that way. Again, if things start moving too fast and you are just not ready for it yet, there are more delicate ways you can make it clear you aren't ready without having to again remind her that she needs to do XYZ and wait this amount of time before you can fully accept her back. So, basically, just takes things slowly and enjoy it as it goes. Don't hold back where you don't want, but also don't dive in too deep before you feel more comfortable that things have changed for the better.


Good luck.

[Zachi]

Thanks for your considerable advice, once again. You do have some good points, and I agree with some of it, and disagree with other parts of it. Or maybe not disagree, but I feel like maybe you misunderstood me a bit. Anyways, let me try to answer bit by bit

It may be a little too late for what I would have personally suggested. Which was that you should have just kept your distance for now. That doesn't mean you had to tell her to take a hike, and that you wanted nothing to do with her until your trip there. But, the constant, daily contact is really no good for either of you.

Believe me, I was very confident about following my plan of keeping the distance. And I wasn't a fan of the daily contact to begin with, but I couldn't figure out how to tell her to back off. Because she did the right thing, so I felt like it would make me punish her for doing the right thing... I felt like I just had to go with whatever she wished. If it was daily, then it should be daily. If it was once a week, it should be once a week. Plus, I had previously promised her that she would be allowed to talk to me again as a friend if she broke up with S, so I had to keep it. If it's good for her, well, she will find out. I have already told her that it would be totally acceptable, if she feels like she needs some space. For me, well... I think what's good for me is to know, that I am setting her free, and letting her get as little or much of me as she wants to



As result of you talking to her basically every day, you were doing pretty much exactly what I would have suggested you not do.... and that is that you were constantly talking about, and constantly reminding her of what she did to hurt you in the past, and all that she had to do to get you back.

I agree here. I think I recently reminded her a bit too much of this, and even she expressed how it made her feel bad to hear about, and that she was already aware. This is a mistake from my side, and I admit that. I might want to apologize to her for that when I get the chance. Still, on the inside, I will not feel convinced completely until a few months has passed, but I am not going to remind her anymore times - of course, unless she asks me directly about it.

It would have been much better to tell her that you are still open to trying again, but that you need some time to process everything. Then maybe you two talk here and there before your visit... but you keep that to a minimum.

It was also my intention to begin with, but well... I didn't want to tell her to back off, so I just decided to be available for her whenever she wanted to be in contact with me. And that kind of escalated, because well... Two people in love can't pretend to only be friends for long. And I felt like the awkwardly forced friendzoning was hurting both of us more, than the potential risk of just letting our hearts decide

Now, I DO think you have a really good attitude that what you want is for her to be happy, even if that ultimately winds up meaning she is happy without you. ...The thing is, that SHOULD NOT mean that her happiness is allowed to come at the expense of yours. At the expense of hurting you.

Oh, what I meant with her happiness in front of mine, is also my point about giving her the freedom to change her mind. Of course I would be hurt, if ultimately, she decides that someone else is the right guy for her. That's only a natural reaction. But maybe not THAT hurt afterall. Cause with the mindset, that I'll be happy if only she is happy, then at least her happiness will not end up being at the expense of mine. And another reason to tell her that she should not feel like she is "tied" to me, is to make sure, that it wouldn't hurt me as much if she changes her mind, because I would already have given her the green light for that - instead of it being a betrayal, which would be a lot more hurtful.

Hopefully that doesn't happen.... but by accepting her back before you were truly ready, you've made yourself vulnerable to that possibility.

Again, I am perfectly aware of that, and my way of avoiding being too vulnerable, is to say to myself, that the most important thing for my happiness, is knowing that she is happy + knowing that she didn't do anything wrong, since I'd already give her the freedom to change her mind. So I am prepared, in a way that will hopefully hurt me the least possible, if it happens.

Don't get me wrong. Sometimes in life you do just have to take what you want. So, ultimately maybe you accepting her back will windup being the right choice. I hope it is. It's just, if it is ultimately what is right... it likely would have been just as right in X months of however long you needed to feel okay about the situation.

That's true. It's just hard for me to see how I would manage to not accept her back now. It's very difficult to resist someone you love, when deep inside your heart, you just want the same as they do. The fact is, I felt ready to love her already, but was only afraid of accepting her, worrying that I would get really hurt, if she betrayed me again. But that's where I got the idea, of just changing my mindset about our relationship, and let it be open from her side, so that I am already prepared and in acceptance, if she changes her mind.

The TL;DR version is that I think maybe you should have stuck to your original plan...
I gave my original plan a try, and it didn't work out for me. But I didn't give up on it without at least trying to hold on to it first, and really considering my options.

For now, I guess if I was going to give you advice based on where things stand now, I think it would be to just take it easy. Don't completely let your guard down like everything is just A-okay now. She does still need to prove that she can change. That things will work this time where they didn't before. At the same time, though, don't rub it in her face that she needs to change/earn you back/work to keep you. I know that isn't your intention at all, but if you keep reminding her of it, it can come across that way.

We still have a lot of things to discuss, but for now and until we meet face to face, I am not going to go through that with her. When we meet in Kenya, she's going to be aware, that of course I am not okay with everything now, and some scars are still deep inside me, and they will take a long time with a trustworthy girlfriend to heal. But as you say, no more rubbing it in her face.


So, basically, just takes things slowly and enjoy it as it goes. Don't hold back where you don't want, but also don't dive in too deep before you feel more comfortable that things have changed for the better.

And that's exactly what I am doing now. I used to hold myself back where I didn't want, because I tried to stick to my plan of friendzoning her. But it felt so unnatural and wrong, and I felt like I was hurting both me and her, by forcing this awkwardly unnatural friendzoning between us. And my way of making sure I don't dive in too deep, is by letting the relationship be open in her end for now, and prepare myself that she MIGHT change her mind, despite the fact that she refuses that this will ever happen, hehe...

[TheEvilJester]

FYI, I saw your update and just wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten you. ;-) I ran out of time to respond today, but I will come back soon to re-read your latest update and add my thoughts if I have anything.

But, as always, best of luck to you.

[TheEvilJester]

Getting a chance to re-read your latest update now and I think it sounds like you have a good plan ahead, at least for you personally. Again, not necessarily the plan I personally would have recommended, but that doesn't necessarily make me right or you wrong. It may just be what is right for you personally.

Again, I also do think you have a great attitude in that you really just want her to be happy. Even if that winds up not being with you. Thing is... that doesn't make it okay for her to use you. I don't necessarily think that is what she's doing, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying that if you two are deciding to give this another try, it needs to be with you both putting in a sincere effort to make it work this time. We can see that is the case from your side, but hopefully it also is from her side as well.

And it sounds like it is. I guess my point in all that is that it just isn't okay if she is just using you. Which, again, I don't think she is. I just think, thought, that it can be easy to THINK you are doing the right thing by putting the other person first only to get taken advantage of and I would not want that to happen to you. Hopefully it wouldn't. At least from what you have shared it sounds like she is trying this time. I gues I just say it because I don't want you to get too comfortable with accepting her back, or to be too focused on her happiness that you also forget to focus on your own.

You deserve somebody special. Hopefully that can be her. Ultimately if it won't wind up being her, then hopefully she is at least up front with you about that since you've made it perfectly clear to her you don't want her to feel forced/trapped in your relationship. And, if she unfortunately does decide you are just not the right match for her, and if she IS up front with you about it rather than using you/leading you on.... it is great if you can be happy for her.... but you also still deserve to focus on your own happiness. If she ultimately proves not to be your true match that doesn't mean you've lost your one shot at true love.... it means she wasn't your true love after all.

Anyway, again, hopefully none of that matters in the end. Hopefully things work out for you two this time. Either way, though, I hope you are able to care enough about yourself to pursue your own happiness. Whether or not that is with her.

Best of luck to you.

[Gina.G]

If you have to shake the head of someone to get them to see that being with you is worth it, it will never be worth it to them. If she wanted to be with you, she would be. It's not up to you to decide for her who she should be with. You sound unstable and unreasonable. Your best bet is to move on and get over it.

[Zachi]

Gina, please read some of my latest posts, to stay up to date with this, before drawing conclusions :-)

[TheEvilJester]

In fairness to Gina, this thread has gotten pretty long since we've been going back and forth on it for a while. Even despite your recent updates, though, I would still agree with her conclusion. You should never have to essentially force somebody to appreciate you. Ultimately, your gal is back with you now, so hopefully now she HAS seen that you are worth having in her life. Hopefully the mistake of being with somebody so bad for her has helped her to see how good for her you are.

So, hopefully that advice is a moot point for you now... but I do still think it is an important message to take home, even if just for future reference.