Could i ever trust her for a serious relationship?

[TheEvilJester]

As I've said, I personally think it is completely wrong to attempt to seduce somebody you know is already in a relationship. But you don't necessarily agree. Okay, so for the sake of argument we will say there isn't necessarily anything wrong with somebody initially attempting to seduce somebody even when they know they are already in a relationship (I still think it is wrong, but for the sake of the discussion, I'll ignore that for a moment)....

If the person shows no interest or even flat out tells you to take a hike... that is all the clue you should need to STOP trying. Otherwise you are just trying to cause drama/steal somebody away from their relationship. Even if you stick around pretending to be their friend but secretly just hoping you can subtly push them into leaving their relationship and/or subtly hinting that you'd be such a great match for them.... it is still wrong. So, honestly, even if I could concede that it is arguably possibly okay to ask them out initially (I still don't think I agree with that, to be honest) you at least need to take a no as a no. Just as you should if the no was coming from somebody who was single.

[Hooo!]

Agreed

- need 10 characters for that

[TheEvilJester]

Okay. Then that I can at least understand, even if I may still not personally agree with it. I still think you might as well take somebody being in a relationship as an automatic no unless they tell you otherwise, but if you at least have the boundaries to take their actual no as a no, I can at least respect that. Like I said, I still think you shouldn't be trying to ask out/seduce somebody you know is in a relationship in the first place, but I guess so long as you respect it if they actually tell you no, then no harm is necessarily done. Wouldn't be much different from if you asked them out and you DIDN'T know they were already in a relationship.

[smackie09]

The majority of the time, they go back to their SO after they had their fun with you because what they have is history, and time invested...people don't walk away from that.

[Hooo!]

As I said
I do not need to respect the relationship of other people
THEY need to respect their relationship.

And if they do that, THEN I have to respect THAT (but not „a“ relationship per se)


You see relationship is a word that means sooooo many different things or connotations to the people involved.
If someone I don’t know sais „I’m in a relationship“ it is the same thing as if a girl told me she „has a boyfriend“.
This can mean the whole range from „you are cute, but thank you no. I love my man and I do not want to be with anyone else right now.“
To
„I’m pretending to habe a bf because I get hit upon so often.“ or even to
„Rescue me, take me away“
Or
„ but I don’t mind a little adventure“


If a woman tells me „oh I have a boyfriend“
I wouldn’t even take her seriously. I would treat that as the basic shittest it is

[TheEvilJester]

Yeah, I guess I can honestly see what you mean there. Especially because I am sure women often say they have a boyfriend even when they don't just as an excuse when guys ask them out and they aren't interested. Still... thing is, if they are making it up because they aren't interested.... well then that implies they aren't interested. So, even then I kind of don't see the point of proceeding. It's almost like continuing to try to as a gal out after she's already said no. She's not interested, so why waste your time?

Though, I guess it does work out for some, so I could be wrong. As you said, if somebody is in a relationship, it is certainly up to them to decide if they are into that relationship enough to want to tell any other possible suitors no thank you.

[GLYC]

Yeah, I guess I can honestly see what you mean there. Especially because I am sure women often say they have a boyfriend even when they don't just as an excuse when guys ask them out and they aren't interested. Still... thing is, if they are making it up because they aren't interested.... well then that implies they aren't interested. So, even then I kind of don't see the point of proceeding. It's almost like continuing to try to as a gal out after she's already said no. She's not interested, so why waste your time?

Though, I guess it does work out for some, so I could be wrong. As you said, if somebody is in a relationship, it is certainly up to them to decide if they are into that relationship enough to want to tell any other possible suitors no thank you.

I strongly agree. If a woman uses that line, you're best off just moving on or just saying "let me know unfit doesn't work out".

I feel like generally, women that like you don't make it that hard to go out with. And that's what you should want, relationships are already hard enough without games and tricks.

And by just being nonchalant, the women that do reject you, can sometimes even come back around when they see that you're positive and easygoing regardless of what they throw at you.

[Hooo!]

Ye well but maybe it’s just her way of dealing with the getting hit upon so often.

She can’t even know if she has interest or not
She doesn’t know me- so how would she know?

There maybe reasons for her not wanting to get romantically involved with me
But those are not expressed by „I have a boyfriend“

I have boy friends too
Many of them

[TheEvilJester]

I strongly agree. If a woman uses that line, you're best off just moving on or just saying "let me know unfit doesn't work out".

I feel like generally, women that like you don't make it that hard to go out with. And that's what you should want, relationships are already hard enough without games and tricks.

And by just being nonchalant, the women that do reject you, can sometimes even come back around when they see that you're positive and easygoing regardless of what they throw at you.

Yeah. Exactly how I feel. I just personally think it is better to accept that as basically being a no. Just as I've always felt it is better to take a no as a no rather than taking a no as a challenge. Like as though you think you can win the girl and turn that no into a yes. Again, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. At least in as far as asking out girls who AREN'T already in a relationship. Some guys do seem to be able to have luck through persistence.

It just would feel to me personally like a waste of my time and putting myself through unnecessary frustration. Not to mention, even if I did ultimately convince the gal to give me a chance, it would feel like I basically had to force her to give me a chance. So it would just sour things for me anyway. I just personally agree more with what you say, GLYC. I think that if a woman does have interest she is most likely not going to play games and make you jump through hoops. Sure, some will. Some do like that whole chase thing.... but frankly those women aren't for me, then. I'm not expecting us to be madly in love at first sight.... but I'm not going to play games and bend over backwards just trying to get your attention.

Ye well but maybe it’s just her way of dealing with the getting hit upon so often.

She can’t even know if she has interest or not
She doesn’t know me- so how would she know?

Yeah, actually I do agree with you here. It has always been one of my frustrations with the dating world. Being so ridiculously shy, it is already hard enough for me to get comfortable with the idea of asking a woman out. Especially one I don't know all that well. So it doesn't help that there are so many men in the world who are freaking pigs and have ruined it for everybody. (Which, don't misunderstand me. Men aren't pigs for hitting on women... they are pigs for taking it too far.) So, it just makes it even harder for guys like me to build up to asking women out, because part of us knows we'll come across as just another jerk asking out the pretty girl. She probably won't even give us a chance because she'll think us just like every other guy. Which is a shame, really.

I mean, I'm not blaming the world for my own personal inability to get women. At least a large part of that is my own fault in a way. I'm just saying, it sure as Hell doesn't help. Had I been born in a different era in time I'd probably have at least had a fighting chance. ...What the Hell was my point? LOL! Sorry. I kind of went off on a tangent that time. But, I guess my point is I still sort of think there is a healthy balance between giving up too easily and being too persistent to the point of being pushy. Maybe it works for some, but I personally just think actively pursuing somebody you already know is in a relationship falls more in the too pushy side of things. But, again, it isn't like I am an expert.

[Hooo!]

The thing is that all you know is that they are in A relationship

As I have explained this can have multiple interpretations or reasons.

Showing sincere interest is not pushy in my opinion

Look at all the married people who just need to be reminded of their attractiveness or whatever

Would it be unethical to sleep with a married woman?

No

Would it be unethical for a married person to sleep with someone else? Probably. It depends on whether both people in the relationship would be ok with that. Most wouldn't.

Would it be unethical to flirt with anyone? Definitely not. Ye well maybe if they are a recovering sex addict.

[TheEvilJester]

Would it be unethical to sleep with a married woman?

No

Well, again, I'd have to disagree. I don't see how that is NOT unethical. To me, there's not much more unethical you can get. The married woman herself would certainly be much more unethical for being the one who is married and yet sleeps with somebody else anyway, but that doesn't make the other person in the equation in the free and clear since they aren't the one who is cheating on their partner.

Of course, that is completely different if the married woman is part of an open relationship. Some people do that and then there is nothing unethical about it at all since both married partners agree to the arrangement.

But I don't see how knowingly sleeping with somebody who is married is in NOT completely unethical unless it is an open marriage type situation. I mean, again, I'd even consider it unethical to flirt with somebody you know is married (or even just in a relationship) but I could at least accept the argument that I could be wrong (or that it could be open to personal interpretation) for that. Because, really, flirting CAN just be innocent fun so long as it doesn't cross a line and so long as you aren't told to knock it the Hell off and yet choose to continue anyway.

Truth be told, though.... maybe I'm wrong. It isn't like I have had much/any success in love, so maybe I'm too damned old-fashioned to succeed in love in the world we live in these days. But... honestly, if that is the case I think I'm okay with that. Because I'd personally rather stick to my morals and beliefs and have to be alone than to compromise them in order to find love by any means necessary. Maybe it works for other people, and as long as they have at least some reasonable boundaries (as you obviously do, Hooo) then I don't begrudge them their differing opinions at all. It just isn't for me.

[GLYC]

Well, again, I'd have to disagree. I don't see how that is NOT unethical. To me, there's not much more unethical you can get. The married woman herself would certainly be much more unethical for being the one who is married and yet sleeps with somebody else anyway, but that doesn't make the other person in the equation in the free and clear since they aren't the one who is cheating on their partner.

Of course, that is completely different if the married woman is part of an open relationship. Some people do that and then there is nothing unethical about it at all since both married partners agree to the arrangement.

But I don't see how knowingly sleeping with somebody who is married is in NOT completely unethical unless it is an open marriage type situation. I mean, again, I'd even consider it unethical to flirt with somebody you know is married (or even just in a relationship) but I could at least accept the argument that I could be wrong (or that it could be open to personal interpretation) for that. Because, really, flirting CAN just be innocent fun so long as it doesn't cross a line and so long as you aren't told to knock it the Hell off and yet choose to continue anyway.

Truth be told, though.... maybe I'm wrong. It isn't like I have had much/any success in love, so maybe I'm too damned old-fashioned to succeed in love in the world we live in these days. But... honestly, if that is the case I think I'm okay with that. Because I'd personally rather stick to my morals and beliefs and have to be alone than to compromise them in order to find love by any means necessary. Maybe it works for other people, and as long as they have at least some reasonable boundaries (as you obviously do, Hooo) then I don't begrudge them their differing opinions at all. It just isn't for me.

I agree. But I think we might just have to agree to disagree with Hooo here.

The only pro to this situation would be that the guy helped show that the woman lacks loyalty and he's saved me more time in my life. Lol

I still wouldn't consider it to be a cool thing though. I think it's important to not only establish respect and boundaries for your own relationships, but also for those of others.

I preach for guys on here to do that, you see posts of guys trying to wait around or convince someone who's with someone else to be with them.

Life is too short. That's nothing but impending drama.

[Hooo!]

Again: the married person should respect their marriage. They are responsible for that.
Not you or anyone else

If you would sleep with a person who is cheating on their partner is a different thing and entirely up to you. I probably would not.


We could even carry that example further:
Is it unethical to be in love with a married person?

Again I think it isn't.

Is it unethical for them to be in love with you? I'm not sure. Maybe it is. Maybe it depends on the situation.


The problem is that in your mind marriage and relationship mean something like exclusive happy and eternal

If you look at forced marriages in other countries you will soon see that these will not match your description


Is it unethical to split a happy content couple up? Yes for sure.
But not every marriage or relationship is that.
And not every person will leave their "situation" (e.g. marriage, partnership, relationship) on their own



Life example: look at the thread by zachi.
Would it be unethical if he slept with the girl?

[TheEvilJester]

Is it unethical for you to be in love with a married person?

There I'd sort of lean toward no because generally love is not a choice. You can't help with whom you fall in love (or even just a crush, lust, infatuation, or whatever). So, it isn't like it is unethical if you have fallen in love with the person. Where I think it can be is in how and/or if you choose to act upon it.

Is it unethical for the married person to be in love with somebody other than their spouse? I will again lean towards no for the same reason. Again, generally love isn't a choice. It isn't like you decide "Hey... I'm going to love this person." By the same token, you can't just choose to stop loving somebody. It CAN be a choice to move in the direction of no longer loving them (such as when you break up, or if the situation proves not to be the best for you), but then it takes some time and space for the love to actually slowly fade away. It's not like a light switch you just flip and you are suddenly out of love.

So, again, even for the married person, the possible unethical thing would be in how and/or if they act upon it. In my personal opinion, a married person made a commitment and therefore should deal with that FIRST. Which, COULD ultimately mean they decide their spouse is wrong for them after all, and therefore they proceed with a divorce.

You are 100% right that not every marriage or even every relationship is happy. It's just, I've always personally felt if a relationship is going to end, it is going to end of its own accord. If it wasn't going to end you certainly shouldn't try to make it end. If it was inevitably going to end anyway, you shouldn't egg it on to help it end. Again, though, I don't know if maybe I'm just too old-fashioned.

Also, I don't believe that marriage is like some magical thing where you are always happy and it is always eternal. I believe people CAN wind up married to the wrong person even if they 100% took it seriously and thought they were marrying the right person. I also STRONGLY feel you shouldn't have to be stuck in an unhappy marriage forever simply because you made that mistake. So, I do think marriages can and should end when they turn out to be the wrong couple... but I've just always felt they should end first (at least in as far as the couple has agreed they are getting a divorce) before either party enters into anything new.

In Zachi's case, I think it WOULD have been unethical for him to sleep with her while she was with the other guy. She's not with the other guy anymore, though, she's back with Zachi. So it wouldn't be unethical now.

[GLYC]

I love to go camping in the "Alpine Valley" with the girls from https://escortmilan.info/ So to say, a mini sex tour. And nature is what: a clean lake, a green forest, everything you need for an excellent holiday

Camping in the woods with complete strangers for a mini sex tour.
Possibility of getting murdered? 99%.

What a ****ing thrill. Sign me up