Avoidance/Nervousness?

[whaywardj]

I thoroughly agree we have utterly different viewpoints on the matter. I think you're being an ass for attempting to persuade her away from a choice she made on her own with no help from you so, no, I've no intention of offering any suggestions that might help you accomplish that. What's more mystifying to me is why you'd WANT to persuade her to you when you have so little respect for the decisions she makes. Rather odd, don't you think?

[music_jim]

I thoroughly agree we have utterly different viewpoints on the matter. I think you're being an ass for attempting to persuade her away from a choice she made on her own with no help from you so, no, I've no intention of offering any suggestions that might help you accomplish that. What's more mystifying to me is why you'd WANT to persuade her to you when you have so little respect for the decisions she makes. Rather odd, don't you think?

If I had little respect for her decisions, I'd be all over her, which I'm not. I know I'm not going to directly persuade her to anything, so I think the change has to come passively, and it has to be from me, because I've lived in a shell way too long.

[whaywardj]

Okay. I'm still mystified as to why you'd want a woman you believe tolerates abuse and whose decisions you, evidently, selectively disregard but, maybe, I misunderstand. Let me see if I've got this straight, one piece at a time:

You're fervently interested in a woman you believe is in a poor relationship with another man. That she chose to be with him is of no consequence to you wanting to express your interest in her in ways that compel her to leave him and be with you.

Is that right, so far?

[shh!]

If you like her, and she likes you, then let her know. Clearly. Then let her choose. Its that simple. All is fair in love and war until there's a ring (or its equivalent) on their finger. IMHO, anyway.

I couldn't agree more.

[whaywardj]

I think not. But then, I have to consider the sources of the opinions: two married women. If all's fair up until the ring's on the finger, then everything that goes before that is devalued. I have to wonder, Shh! and Indigo, whether you felt the same when you were dating the men who became your husbands. Did you then think it fair for other women to interlope on your relationships; or for your men to respond favorably to those who might have?

To me, the opinions are very similar to saying that children do not deserve respect because they're not adults. Whether ring or not, love relationships involve an intimacy that merits other's respect for what it is, just as children deserve respect for being the people they are.

[shh!]

Would I have LIKED it? No. Would it have been "fair"? Yes. And if he were going to respond favorably, I'd sure want to know about that before we married.

[whaywardj]

So, you're asking us to believe that, when you and your husband were dating, you didn't feel at all as if another woman was doing anything wrong to make advances on him?

[shh!]

Well, I am assuming she is not a friend or relative, of course. He was the one who had an arrangement with me, not her. If he took her up on her offer, HE would be in the wrong.

[whaywardj]

I think you're either splitting hairs to keep your position intact, or haven't considered the full implications of what you've said. But, whatever.

My own view is that ANY romantic involvement between two people rates a hands-off attitude from others, if for nothing more than the fact that selfish meddling with it can prevent it from becoming the full-blown relationship it has the potential of being. Just as selfishly meddling with children can prevent them from becoming the full-grown adults they have the potential of being. Budding, or even tentative romances and children are equally fragile things in my eyes and should be treated with similar qualities of caring and respect for their futures.

[music_jim]

Okay. I'm still mystified as to why you'd want a woman you believe tolerates abuse and whose decisions you, evidently, selectively disregard but, maybe, I misunderstand. Let me see if I've got this straight, one piece at a time:

You're fervently interested in a woman you believe is in a poor relationship with another man. That she chose to be with him is of no consequence to you wanting to express your interest in her in ways that compel her to leave him and be with you.

Is that right, so far?

Yep, that's pretty much it. There are worse ways I could be going about it, but instead I'm making changes to myself that'll make me a better person for myself, for her, or anyone else later on. Whether or not it'll hook her, well, nobody can say. I'll still be better prepared for the future.