Religion

[Vanilla Gilr]

One gift I did receive from my upbringing was to respect other peoples religions..or lack thereof.

It sounds like the making of a joke...but when I was in junior high and highschool..it was not unusual to come home and find the Catholic Priest, the Jewish Rabbi and the Methodist Minister sitting in the living-room having friendly conversations...it was a small town and what services could be had together...like Thanksgiving Eve and Passover...were had as a comunity. You don't have to have the same beliefs in order to respect those beliefs.

In my opinion...Shh is right...there is no logical reason for religion...it IS about faith.

[Mish]

i think, religion only exists because:

1. people don't know how to behave themselves. if everybody'd stick to the rules of common decency, moses wouldn't have had to come up with those commandmends. ("they won't listen to me, so i just tell them the LORD told me to tell 'em") and people needed to be kept in awe of punishment for law-breakers, too, else the whole scheme wouldn't have worked.

2. people just can't face the idea that death really means "game over". quite understandable, though, it really is scary to think about your body rotting away with absolutely no chance of doing anything about it.

There are a lot more reasons out there for Religious belief Alice than the ones provided by you. The number one reason till this day remains the quest for knowledge. That's right. No scientist or scientific school of thought can explain life and how it came to be. There are some theories floating around out there, like the Universe beginning with a giant explosion that after trillions of years developed into something as complex as life and consciousness, but until this day these remain nothing but theories.

Dare I say, human mind is too unevolved yet to grasp even very simple concepts such as the endlessness of space and time to even begin to wonder into phillosophical complexes such as life and the beginning of life. Disbelief of everything we see outside of our window evolving from a giant explosion still remains one of the most popular reasons for sustenance of Religious beliefs.

There are also other reasons such as:

Spitituality
Fate
Existance of good and evil
Existance of love
Our planet being the only known planet to sustain life
Differences between people and other animals
Complexities of the human mind

Don't forget, religious people make up more than half of the population of the world. We are talking about billions and billions of people. I don't think that all of these people are as silly as you desribed them to be.

[Debunkt]

How many Christian couples get divorced?

How many couples, that were both virgins when married, get divorced?

It doesn't seem like those statistics would have much importance. I assume you're looking for "Oh, they're equal or less than to that of non-christians." But if they're real questions, divorce isn't exactly a choice they're going to be too willing to take. They'll instead be miserable, ask God to humble them, continue to be miserable, accept their role according to the bible, asked to be humbled some more because damn it they're supposed to love the person they married even if they're a jackass, and then continue to be miserable and die miserable. Just remember that because somebody doesn't get divorced doesn't mean they're happy or a good person. They're just stubborn.

What are the statistics for child success in a dual parent Christian home?

Once again, that statistic wouldn't matter. Christians have historically had more and better opportunities in this country simply by the fact that they're christians, and this red-whit-and-blue-blooded country loves themselves some christians. You'll have to wait another 20-30 or so years to find out whether or not christians can actually be more successful (which is really kind of vague because "success" is self-proscribed) than other people.

Hugo: War and killing does not translate to "easily latched on to jewish and christian beliefs"

Afterlife: its a nice thought, and I certainly won't tell too many people it doesn't exist because if I did those people wouldn't be as nice as they are.

--this is why people avoid discussing religion and are generally disgusted with humanity.

AHMEN!

[shh!]

I am pretty sure I read that the divorce rates are higher in the bible belt than anywhere else in the U.S....

[Only-virgins]

Religion can not be explained through logic and the word "faith" is used as an excuse. If you think there is a god then I have the same right to believe a green Giant lives in my closet but you can not go in there. Both are equally valid in being equally invalid. You need valid premises to create an argument and religion doesn't provide any, infact, religion is just stupid, it believes in something it doesn't know is there. Ignorance in other words.

If you really want logical reasons for the belief in Christ and God then you will read the works of Thomas Aquinas, and Socrates argument on death. Also Baltasar Gracian has some good logic.

I Read them all, all have faults in them. None of them are good evidence for any form of powerful god. I studied these writing in philosophy and ethics, just opinions of old philosophers, they were good reads though, interesting but to many loops.

[Hugo Pickle]

No, don't lie to me, you have not read the works I have described. To prove it, tell me why the argument fails in your mind, not simply that it does. You say you have taken a logic, religion, or philosophy classes, then why do you suppose for me to accept your flat denials of the sources I presented when you do not present a valid argument for your side. No, you know nothing of logic and the Socratic Method, let alone the works of Thomas Aquinas.

You, like all the people who have recently posted their flat denials of religion, use no logic or reasoning for your attacks upon religion or certain branches of religion. But you know what; I don't give a damn about your failure to even attempt a proper argument for your lack of belief. It bothers me not a bit. You are the one who is angry and suffering from ignorance and foolish pride in matters that may be the most significant in all of human history. So you keep your lack of faith and refusal to learn, I care not, and I will not argue with you about your position, you can wallow in self destructive anger and foolish uneducated pride all you want cause I’m not going to waste any of what I have learned on you. I told you all where to go if you want to learn. I did my part, what you do about, I don’t give a damn.

[Cybog]

Moved this over to Off-Topic. You guys are now free to argue and moan at each other about who is more "correct" about religion until your heart's content - Just keep it somewhat civil and refrain from name calling.

[Only-virgins]

No, don't lie to me, you have not read the works I have described. To prove it, tell me why the argument fails in your mind, not simply that it does. You say you have taken a logic, religion, or philosophy classes, then why do you suppose for me to accept your flat denials of the sources I presented when you do not present a valid argument for your side. No, you know nothing of logic and the Socratic Method, let alone the works of Thomas Aquinas.

You, like all the people who have recently posted their flat denials of religion, use no logic or reasoning for your attacks upon religion or certain branches of religion. But you know what; I don't give a damn about your failure to even attempt a proper argument for your lack of belief. It bothers me not a bit. You are the one who is angry and suffering from ignorance and foolish pride in matters that may be the most significant in all of human history. So you keep your lack of faith and refusal to learn, I care not, and I will not argue with you about your position, you can wallow in self destructive anger and foolish uneducated pride all you want cause I’m not going to waste any of what I have learned on you. I told you all where to go if you want to learn. I did my part, what you do about, I don’t give a damn.

How about posting the argument itself?. I dont believe you that you read those things either then, prove to me you did. Just cause you know their name?. I will tell you why it fails pick one, any, the socrates or the Thomas one and I will. Fool. When a idea of any kind, god or anything else, is presented it must be proven...not disproven. How much does that make sense to disprove things we have no proof of? There is equal amount of proof that chickens are the master race as there is for christianity to be accurate fool.

By the way fool, The socratic method is nothing but the idea of teaching through asking questions and not telling. Thomas Aquinas was nothing but a moron lost in his own faith. He is easily disproven in philosophy 101 lol. I doubt you took that class did you?

Ontological Argument, Pascal's Wager, All moral arguments. These are others that try as well, they also have one thing in common, they all fail.

I will only put one last arguement here, if the theist is unable to make a persuasive case for the existence of God (persuasive to absolutly no doubt), then the atheist is justified in his atheism.

Take this from a athiest who once was a theist and had his eyes opened. I was born in a catholic family but was lucky enough to escape the brain washing.

[Illusional]

i question religion at times and whether god really exists. at the sametime, i'm at firm believer of the big bang theory.

raverboy

[Mish]

i'm at firm believer of the big bang theory.

raverboy

You believe universe and everything that exists today happened due to a giant explosion, before which there was nothing?

Just out of curiousity, what do you think caused this explosion, provided there was nothing in existance before that explosion occured?

P.S. Btw, did you know that the Big Bang theory (The most popular scientific theory today on origins of the universe) was first concieved by a Belgian priest in 1927?

P.P.S. It's actually very interesting, but the more i read about our modern scientific descoveries about our universe the more comparisons I seem to be able to make between science and religion, example Big Bang as the theory of creation:

The Planck Epoch: 10-43 seconds
The Universe, which includes time, space, and everything in it, begins with the Big Bang 13.7 ± 0.2 billion years ago.

AS

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep;

Light energy and graviational pull as the sources of light and mysterious "Dark energy" as the sources of dark that holds our universe together and in balance "The Universe today appears to be dominated by a mysterious form of energy known as dark energy. Approximately 70% of the total energy density of today's Universe is in this form."

The big rip, the big crunch and the heat death of the universe as doomsday theories similar to the ones found in Revelation

I personally think there is as much of religion in these theories as in Christianity or any other form of Religion.

[shh!]

Interestingly, the scientific "big bang" works well with the Kabbalistic explanation of the creation of the world first founded in the 1500s.

Mishayna - are you saying you aren't buying big bang? Because most scientists do...

[Only-virgins]

I don't buy the big bang theory either, I don't understand why humans can not get past the fact that the earth and the universe was not created, it just always was. Matter can not be created and it can not be destroyed...proof enough right there. The bing bang, life, planet positions and shapes are just all events that took place in this infinite on going cause and effect universe. So many people ask me how the universe was created, I ask them, why do you assume it ever was?. I mean, do not get me wrong, The big bang did happen!, its just that in order for the bang to expand matter the matter had to be there in the first place. Scientist look at the big bang as a formation of the universe rather then a creation. Religious people I think have a hard time understanding the the word "infinite" always was and always will be. No one created matter, Gases turn into liquids, liquids turn into solids, solids turn into liquids, liquids turn into gases and the circle of the universe continues from its no beginning to its no end.

[Mish]

Mishayna - are you saying you aren't buying big bang? Because most scientists do...

I think Big Bang theory is a very Religious theory. I can't say if I buy it or don't buy it, but it's a theory that requires a lot of faith to believe in (Just as any other religion). Thus, the many scientists who believe in it that you speak of are in fact religious people.

[Only-virgins]

I think Big Bang theory is a very Religious theory. I can't say if I buy it or don't buy it, but it's a theory that requires a lot of faith to believe in (Just as any other religion). Thus, the many scientists who believe in it that you speak of are in fact religious people.

I agree because if the scientist holds that the big bang "created" the universe then they most likely will place god as the cause for the big bang. Although most now know that the gravitational force built threw time on matter was always the cause, not god. If your read my previous post.

[shh!]

NASA scientists, religious? Umm, I don't think so.

[url]http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html[/url]