let's start a new post in this forum

[Tiay]

fasting is good for people. animals do the same thing too. it's natural. cavemen and women didn't sit around their caves and just have food whenever they wanted it.

there's too much food.

you have a good point. I usually try to see this in evolutionary terms. Though I guess the question is, did food shortage help us, or did we just survive in spite of it? I mean, people did only live for 30 or 40 years, I don't wanna model myself too closely on caveman diet

but that'll be alleviated when there are massive food shortages due to drought.

oh, goody, I can't wait.
due to drought? I dunno, I think it's gonna be due to just too many people. I mean, if everyone on earth had a diet as rich in meat as a typical US diet, all the earths land mass would have to be dedicated to growing food for the animals.

[anachronistic]

fasting is good for people. animals do the same thing too. it's natural. cavemen and women didn't sit around their caves and just have food whenever they wanted it.

there's too much food.

but that'll be alleviated when there are massive food shortages due to drought.

i must say i disagree. so what? you think cavemen and cavewomen just sat around and fasted? no, they were out looking for food all the time. it wasn't like today; they didn't have refrigerators full of food and could go and fast any time. food was very spontaneous. they got good exercise hunting the food, and then they ate it.

i honestly do not think that we will run out of food. animals these days are cultivated and scientifically engineered to give you the beef you want. i think that genetics will at one time become the answer to food shortages. food will be created through genetics/cloning. i also believe that eventually people will start living on other planets. the future holds many thoughts and opportunities, but it is not of my concern. people also forget that survival of the fittest thing. if you want to be pessimistic and base your thoughts solely on statistics, go ahead, but you'll only destroy your beautiful imagination.

[Tiay]

other planets? that's a pretty optimistic view! as far as we know today, that is pretty much impossible. I mean sure we could live on the moon or mars a bit, but it would not really be thriving life, it'd just be living off supplies from earth. The nearest vaguely earth-like planets are lifetimes away even travelling at insane speeds, and even then it would be massively difficult. We already know that humans living on different continents can carry such different immune systems and weaknesses that when they exchange gift it can be detrimental. Just think about how even a planet pretty much exactly like earth could be different in small ways that would still be totally deadly for us.

also, unless humans control their population, the population will simply increase till there is not enough food, no matter how efficient that food source is. I can see us 'growing' meat, though. It'd be so much more efficient to just grow some protein rich meat, rather than investing so much energy in feeding a cow and then taking it's meat- after all, so much energy goes into the animals activities and it's non-edible parts, etc, it's a pretty wasteful process really.

I'd like to have faith in humanities abilities- but look at all the messes we have made, and how *blind* we are. we have the resources and the power to do so, but still we can not even ensure that all of us live in good conditions.

[/OT rant]

[IndiReloaded]

I'd like to have faith in humanities abilities- but look at all the messes we have made, and how *blind* we are. we have the resources and the power to do so, but still we can not even ensure that all of us live in good conditions.

I prefer to view this problem as more: look at how far we *have* come & all that we have done! Those problems that remain are, compared with where we've come from, very solvable if we could just apply ourselves with focus.

I believe that moon & mars colonies are *very* achievable, as is ending hunger & poverty. But then I grew up on Gene Roddenbury (Star Trek), so my brain has probably been warped by this.

[Tiay]

I prefer to view this problem as more: look at how far we *have* come & all that we have done! Those problems that remain are, compared with where we've come from, very solvable if we could just apply ourselves with focus.

actually, I find that *more* depressing. In a world where we have all this advanced stuff, we still have poverty, we're still killing each other. these are fundamental problems that seem to simply be ingrained in our species. Humans are without doubt the most destructive, hateful species on the planet. The horribly unnecessary and cruel ways we treat other species, and even ourselves, is just sickening to me.
People ask how people in germany 'didn't notice' what was going on, ie, how was there not outrage? Yet this is the same question I could ask about America..; how is there not outrage, how are people still going to their jobs every day, why aren't they on the streets?

and the truth is we are much simpler than we think. We may know larger things, but in the end, most of us still simply interact with what is right in front of us.

[Tiay]

animals kill each other for simple, competitive reasons. they don't lead wars based on hate or racism- they don't have culture.

you're right tho, at the end of the day we *are* animals. We compete with one another. survival of the fittest.

[IndiReloaded]

actually, I find that *more* depressing. In a world where we have all this advanced stuff, we still have poverty, we're still killing each other. these are fundamental problems that seem to simply be ingrained in our species. Humans are without doubt the most destructive, hateful species on the planet. The horribly unnecessary and cruel ways we treat other species, and even ourselves, is just sickening to me.
People ask how people in germany 'didn't notice' what was going on, ie, how was there not outrage? Yet this is the same question I could ask about America..; how is there not outrage, how are people still going to their jobs every day, why aren't they on the streets?

and the truth is we are much simpler than we think. We may know larger things, but in the end, most of us still simply interact with what is right in front of us.

Shrug. Guess I tend to be more about solutions & less about blame. All life is about problem solving. Careful w/those negative thoughts, Tiay, they tend to be self-reinforcing.

Have a great weekend everybody!

[Tiay]

well I figure, if the world is so depressing, my life so meaningless, etc, then I may as well enjoy the hell out of it!

[vashti]

Tiay - you should read this week's Newsweek article about Norman Borlaug, the least famous Nobel Peace Prize winner who has single-handedly reduced global hunger from 60% in 1960 to 14% in 2000. It goes a long way to show that things really *are* improving in the long run, though of course, we still have a long way to go.

[Tiay]

oh? that's cool, where do I find it?

(lol, and I thought bono wanted to do that ^.^)

[vashti]

You could try googling the article - it's called "He only saved a billion people" by Jonathan Alter. Either that, or purchase the July 20th Newsweek - the cover is called "Islam in America", which BTW, was also a really good article.

I am such a geek. I love Newsweek.

[Gigabitch]

due to drought? I dunno, I think it's gonna be due to just too many people.

Two words for you: Soylent Green.

[misombra]

i must say i disagree. so what? you think cavemen and cavewomen just sat around and fasted? no, they were out looking for food all the time. it wasn't like today; they didn't have refrigerators full of food and could go and fast any time. food was very spontaneous. they got good exercise hunting the food, and then they ate it.

i honestly do not think that we will run out of food. animals these days are cultivated and scientifically engineered to give you the beef you want. i think that genetics will at one time become the answer to food shortages. food will be created through genetics/cloning. i also believe that eventually people will start living on other planets. the future holds many thoughts and opportunities, but it is not of my concern. people also forget that survival of the fittest thing. if you want to be pessimistic and base your thoughts solely on statistics, go ahead, but you'll only destroy your beautiful imagination.

WHAT?!? pessimism has driven the imagination of some of the greatest artists in the world.