A bad deja-vu...

[Crammond]

So, it's me again...

I posted on this forum about 2 years ago when I broke up with my ex.

Since than I was more or less single all the time till abouth 1,5 month ago, when I hooked up with a girl.

I'm 24 and a half, she is 20 and a half (tough I swore to myself I'll never be with a girl younger than me...no bad experience but I believe that only a small precentage of younger girls/guys are mature enough that they don't need to "be wild" at their age - for example, I know that when I'm in a relationship I don't "look around" because I don't have the need to "test the market". So I don't want to lose lets say 4 years with sb younger just so she can find out that she is too young and has to "test the market")

Ok, that was a bit off-topic, lets get back on topic.

So, the other day she told me she is going out on a drink with a friend (co-worker from some charity work she did a couple of days after we hook up). The next day when wee saw eachother we talked and she mentioned that he told her that she has only 2 options:

- to dump me
- to have an open relationship.

She told me that she chose the 3rd option, to be with me.
She also told me that than he proposed a threesome (which I'm not really into, I told her that I'm too emotional for something like that, but she told me that she'd like to try it once - she's a bit wild on the sex side..)


This brings me to the post title - a bad deja-vu.

The EXACT same thing happened with my ex.. (i'm re-reading my old posts here, i didn't mention it there, don't know why).

But the same thing happened to me about 3 years ago, my ex came home from a drink with the guy she than later cheated on me with and told me the same freakin' thing about the proposal to either dump me, so he can f*** her or to just sleep with him while beeing with me (the "open relationship" thing).

Before the conversation I told my current GF what I went trough with my ex and that it wasn't a nice experience and all, so she knows what happened in the past (no details, but she knows that my ex "played with me" for the last 6 months before I found out she cheated on me).

Also, we joke around with my current GF about how she is mine and she has me and three lovers and than while beeing on vacation over the summer she/we joked about how I'm hers and how I have her and a young girl who works in the store (I hope you get this part, it's kinda hard to translate it to english).

I took all of this as a joke, but told her several times how much I love her and that I got hurt really bad and that she doesn't have to even think to fear about me cheating on her as I don't want anyone to go trough what I went. And I took all that "three lovers" thingy as a joke and I still do, but this ex co-worker is a problem for me...

So know I have a dillema. She did say that she told him that she is only mine and she does tell me several times everyday that I'm hers and she's mine... but I have a bad feeling about all of this (how can you blame me if it all happened to me before...).

Should I just let it be, enjoy the time I spent with her and don't say anything?
Should I ask her one more time (I did ask her this just after she told me what they were talking, but she gave me a "funny" answer, as in: you don't have to worry...just yet as he is not from this time..but he's coming to school soon, so maybe than you'll have to worry. Those were here exact words, it sounded like a joke, but in my country we say have of the joke is always true..).
So, should I ask her again if I need to worry about her ex co-worker and ask her to give me a serious response? The point is that I'm scared I'll screw things even more if I ask her, because she can than think that I think she's a cheater already...
The problem is that so far she didn't really do nothing wrong and I can't blame her for anything so that's why I don't know if it is even smart to ask her the same question again...

I also know that nobody that is going to cheat on somebody is going to admit it (at least not before they do it), so I really don't know if I should say anything, but I want her to know that I'm not going to sit and worry all the freakin time like I did with my ex. I want her to know that if I find something fishy, I'll leave her in a hearthbeat.



I know it is a rather fresh relationship (on 5th of september we'll be together for only 2 months), but I really really like her, she is something I was looking for for the past 3 years... So I really really really don't want to mess things up.


Sorry for the long read. Comments will be appriciated.

thank you.

Bye,
S


p.s.

I left out a small detail...

About 3 days before she met with the ex co-worker, she sent me a message over cell phone that she is going to work late and that if I go to sleep before she finishes, she'll find somebody else to drive her home (she usually does as she works in a restaurant and the have to be open till all the customers leave and most of the time I go and pick her up). I sent her back that (I wrote exactly like this) "No problem, I'll wait ".

She respond with "What, you don't let somebody else drive me!?!?"

I respond: "No baby, I just want to see you (I told her several times that I like to spend as much time as I can with her - I work a lot, especially last 2 months, so I can only see her in the mornings or in the evenings and sometimes durring the day as I'm my own boss and I can take a break anytime I want but I still work about 10-12 hours a day). I'm not that jellaous, you know ".

Than it got a bit weirder, she responded "Well if you're not it is enough that I am. No, I'm just kidding, I'm not. Only one person doesn't give me peace (in a way that she can't stop thinking about the person) and I don't know when he/she will (give me peace)".

I respond: "I don't really understand, which person? Somebody at work? Somebody else? Me?"

She respond: "A person regarding you. I know you told me that I don't need to be jellaous, but I can't help myself".

I told her that I didn't seem to explain her good enough that there is absolutely no way that I will cheat on her and than we exchanged some more messages which are not related.

I picked her up later that night, we went to her place and before we went to sleep, I asked her who that person is. She at first didn't want to tell me but than she told me that it's (let's call her) Melisa.

I started laughing (Melisa is a younger(she just turned 18) sister of my best friend (who commited suicide half a year ago because of his GF... ), who in the past (when she was 16 and I was 22, jizz....) really liked me, but nothing ever happened and since she was the sister of my best friend I didn't even want nothing with her and now, since he is gone, I really don't want anything with her as she looks a bit like him...).
I asked her if she is joking and she told me that she doesn't know, that she knows (she found out on vacation, I had a lot of friends with me, including Melisa) Melisa liked me and that maybe I'm secretly meeting up with her. The conversation ended pretty soon, but the point is that when I got the first message about a person regarding me, it was kinda...how to say...strange to me. When we talked about it before sleep it kinda seemed that she is just making it up... Can't really say if she was, but it sounded like this wasn't really what she is having in mind.
Now, I don't want to jump conclusion, but I kind think this is either:

- something she can throw at me if I ever start complaining over the ex co-worker (tough my case is an absolute absurd, I maybe see Melisa once a year and she and everyone else knows that)
- she was "testing waters" and didn't write what she meant in the messages..in my opinion she kinda wanted to let me know that she isn't sold on me and that she has an eye for the ex co-worker...

Ok,...I'll stop now

Thanks for all the comments

[misombra]

sounds like she likes her co-worker and probably hooks up with him. she's probably bringing up melissa to make her look more innocent. she's really young, and obviously not on the same plain as you.

[vashti]

I confess I didn't read the whole thing, but dude! It sounds like you attract the wrong kind of girls! Maybe you should take a hiatus for a while, and re-think the types of girls you are asking out. Try to figure out what common personality characteristics you have been attracting, and then learn to spot them and AVOID them. It doesn't look like this "type" is working for you.

[Gigabitch]

OMFG- how did you get TWO girls that were both interested in ****ing somebody else in a row? Where the hell do you live? Is this normal behavior where you are?

And the whole Melisa thing is just a distraction. i agree with Misombra- she's just trying to set up her own case for innocence.

You shouldn't be allowed to date without someone you know giving the girl an in-depth interview first to determine if she's a "wild" girl. I use your word there because my word is really not nice and rhymes with "door".

[Crammond]

lol at the "door" type...

Yeah, I agree, I somehow end up with the same type of girls... It all seems to be fine and all in the begining and than its all the same sh*t.

I don't know... Most probably I'll bring it up in conversation tomorrow and if she is going to be pissed (in a way that I am bordering her/not allowing her to meet with other people/him) I'll just walk away.

I don't even have the energy (emotional, I used most of it with my ex and never really regain it...) to fight for her, tough i really really like her.

As far as the re-thinking the type of girls I date.... Since my ex, I (kinda, since it wasn't a serious relationship) hooked up with 3 girls. One was under 20 and totally immature so I stoped seeing her after about 2 weeks.

The other was a year younger, she seemed nice but somehow hard to get and since there was no progress in about a month I canceled all contacts with her.
The third was probably the best out of all of them, she really liked me, she was nice and all, but (this will probably not sound all that nice...) she had about 40-50 pounds too much. Now don't get me wrong, I don't like the skinny ones, I like it if there is something "to grab" so considering that, those 40-50 pounds did bother me (and yes, you should love somebody for what he/she is and not how she/he looks but I can't be with somebody that doesn't attract me)... So I also stoped seeing her after about 2 months (abouth a month before I met my current GF)...

fu*k it, maybe I should swich to gays? I mean, how much worse could it be? (just kiddin'..)

[Gigabitch]

Bad news for you: Homosexual men also come in extra-large. And "rhymes with door". No good trying to get out of it.

If your gf tries to give you the "don't fence me in" argument just because you won't let her go off and bone somebody else, dump her ass right there. You know how that story ends anyway- no point in living it again.

[Crammond]

i'm done with everything. I'm done.

Many thanks to everyone here for the commnets for this thread and for my other threads.

[bigfella247]

verdict: she's guilty

start again, try a different type of girl, you deserve better.

[Crammond]

To bring this thread back to life a bit.
(and after writing this i see it is again a long one..shhhhh..god damn love problems killin me...)

Since my last posting in this thread there have been no mentioning of the ex co-worker from her nor anything. Yet there still is a problem.

She is dead sold on going to the same charity working program she went last year and where se met the co-worker. This program is kindof a "program" for school - u have to do something like this to gate to the next year in school (tough is she goes to this program in 2008 she will go more or less on her own since the school gave her some other program to go to which she is attending now).

Now, if nothing goes wrong until the start of summer (when this charity work program starts) and we are still a couple, I will most probably lose half of my nervs thinking what is going on there. Knowing he is not there/coming there will probably make things much easier for me tough for me that (his attandance) is hard to find out without asking her directly.

If I'll have to ask her directly, I'll wait until a week or so before she goes (if she goes, there is still a lot of time until it starts and many things can happen) since I'm just not in the mood for the arguing right now.

I like her a lot and I fall in love with her in the past couple of months, but with my bad past with girls (ex fiance cheated on me and current GF had some "weird flashes" already) I just don't know how to take care of all of this.

I cannot tell her not to go; she told me nobody is ever going to tell her what to do and what not to do. I also don't think that I own her and knowing that I cannot make her do/don't do things like I want.

I can tell her that it will bother me if she goes tough I don't think that will change her mind. I know that because no matter that we are together for almost 6 months and that se keeps on telling me she is happy with having me and that she love me (but not in a way "i love you, you are the love of my life", more like "I care about you" - your word "love" has 2 meanings in our country), she never told me that she really loves me (the opposite of the "i care about you" meaning) but I told her I love her several times (not everyday since I don't want to sound cheezy, I just want her to know how I feel and all). That being said, I think that after 6 months she still isn't/never was really in love with me. I know that I could put myself into a bit of a better shape (i'm not fat or anything, I have muscles on my legs from 10years of basketball practicing, rather ok arms (tough not really full of muscles) but I do have a little belly and she really likes men with a good body - fcuk it, gotta be young women thing).. I was already working on my body figure but had to take a break since I had a lot of work at my job and I'm planing to start seriously exercising (5times/week if not more) in the beginning of January since I want to look good (mostly for myself, luckly I'm mature enough that since the start of this year I first look at my happiness and than everybody else's). (thus part is reffering to the fact that the co-worker from last years had an amazing body...damn bastard)

Puting my body shape to size topic away, I got the information (quite some time ago) that if she would go only for the looks, she would dump me ages ago (she is not tha dumb isn't she... i mean for example she's got really small tits but so fuc*ing what, like i care how big her tits are (she really has a problem not liking them cause they are small and i have to keep telling her on a daily basis that they are just prefect, which i truely believe)).

So she isn't all into "you gotta look smokin' hot for me to have you" type of a girl (luckly for me i'm supposedly really good in bed, that maybe helps ) but than again you would expect that your partner, after half a year, maybe should tell you that he/shee loves you the way you love her.

Tough I won't put pressure on her (i only mentioned it once in a mail that hearing those words from her and from her heart will make me the happiest man on the world) since maybe it is just to early for her (i told her I love her about a month after we hook up, but it did come from the heart since I don't justr throw the "i love you" fraze around like a frizbie...and that reminds me that my ex also told me this words after more than 6months of dating). Yet it sill bothers me just a little bit...

[Crammond]

To get back on the topic really quickly...if I find out that he will be there at the same time (only he is my main problem since i don't believe that she will get interested in somebody else if he will not be there) I cannot decide what to do. I will probably tell her something along the line about how don't like her going yet I don't want to sound like I'm saying I know she is going to (or maybe if the situation is right) cheat on me with him since I have no clue if she would (tough the first post in this thread says that I know they at least kissed and hugged and enjoyed a couple of sunsets on the charity work program this year when we already dated).

A part of me is saying to tell her all that is on my mind with the chance of her getting pissed and dumping me (it will be hard for me since i love her and really like her but I'll probably ger over her easier than I got over my ex). The other part of me is saying to do the tested method of not saying anything and coughting her/them in the act and confessing her at that moment or at the very first possible time. But it is rather complicated, the charity work program is a bit out of the populated area so I cannot just sneak around nor can get somebody that would spy on her on the inside. I also have no clue where they were enjoying their sunsets (believeing that they will do it again since he sent her a couple of picture messages of sunsets and writings like "it is not the same without you" along with the pictures a couple of weeks after she got back from the program this year). So that means it can be very difficult for me to catch her (I check her mobile from time to time and yes I know I'm a prick for doing that but she does play with mine from time to time and I don't look at what she is looking at on my phone. Other than that there is no good way of knowing if she is cheating me or not, since I believe she is a rather good face-to-face liar and her good friend she hangs out with a lot is a big time cheater so no help from her to).

I have to make a decision. To tell her everything before she goes (if she even goes, I'd wait until a week or 2 before she goes before I mention anything to her)? If she would still go and we wouldn't break up I would even tell her that for the whole week she is there she doesn't exist for me nor I for her (this year I visited her 4 time in a periond of 7 days she was there fooling around..i brought her flowers from netherlands and just wanted to see her, since we just started dating - please know that only once I went there with no other purpes and just to see her...on other ocacions I connected seeing her with some business I had to do in that area but never let her know that and business could wait but i took the oppertunitiy to see her some more). Meaning "don't exist" I mean in a way (i would told her that) that I know what went on last year, about how i think she liked those times and how I think she likes or sth her co-worker, since she has his pictures saved on the phone and that for that week I do not call her, I do not send messages or nothing and expect the same from her (except if it is an emergancy). I don't mean that now f she "doesn't" exist that i can cheat on her...it means just that I'll shut her off of my mind for the week as it would be much easier not to think about her at all than to worry all the time.

The other option is to play a detective, a spy. I like this one a bit more from the angle of proof. If I find or see something than I can dump her with a reason (i' don't want to dump her just because the little shits/lies mentioned in this post..it is not enough for me to dump her). Even in my last serious relationship I could end things earlier (or not, I wasn't as "emotionaly strong" as I am nowdays) but I didn't since I wanted a proof of me being right. I know i may seem strange but that's the way i am. It would make me both, in a way happy and in a way really sad if I was to play spy and I found something really good to use for the dump. **** it, i guess i'm a weirdo.. But at least I would be 100% sure that I'm right. That she is not worth my time. I would get that priceless expression on her face when I'd (for example, after seeing them do some shit together they weren't suppose to do) walk over to them and congratulate the guy and told her something like "thank you for showing me your true you"...


And it also hurts a bit that she is going to Thailand for a month in February. No biggie tough, if she wouldn't told me to go with her just so the very next day she could tell me that her friend (she and her female friend go to a month long trip every year) told her that I can't go.
She was told that if she reeeeeeally wanted me to go with her to Thailand, I can go, but otherwise she would like to go only with my GF (2 girls). Me and my GF talked about it and since I got lots of time to waste next year (just closing my own business cause it didn't go as planned) I told her I'd really like to go. In the past, before I was "invited" i told her several times that i'll "die" missing her, not seeing her for a month and she told me she will miss me too.

Time is passing by (i was invited in the beginig of December) and I still do not know if I'll go or no (she has to talk to her friend about it). Than i found out that from the very first time they talked and she mentioned taking me with her, that after her friend disagreed, my GF said she'll make it that way that only the 2 of them go.

Since than I kinda got ok with the fact of her going without me. We see eachother every day, sleep in the same bed 99% of the time (maybe we didn't share bed for 10days in 6 months) and beeing a bit without her will be nice since I don't really have much privat time now and in the past (i was working like mad most of the time, than got home to change and than meet with her, so almost no private time). So it is not really that big of a problem for me if she goes withouth me. And I also got myself a new job (i cannot just sit home and do nothing, i'd die because of boredom) which I start in the middle of January.

But the thing that bothers me is that she knows that I'm not going (and I obviously know it to) tough everytime we talk about Thailand, I (out of curiosity about when she will tell me) ask if she knows if I'm going or not and similar things.

Now I know for a fact that this Friday she and her friend are going to get plane tickets for Thailand (the were supposed to get them a week or so ago, but didn't had the time) yet when I ask her if she knows if I'm going or not, she told me that she will know it on Friday, when she is meeting her friend.

Now, to make things clear, she doesn't know about my new job and I intend to keep it that way until she tells me I cannot go to Thailand (why give her an easy way out of her "lying"?).

The thing that bothers me is that even that she hasn't told me that she loves me like I love her, she tellls me she loves me (as caring about me) a lot and from my point of view, you can't tell somebody that you really love/care about them a lot and that you will miss him and that you WANT them to go with you when you know that he/she is defenitly not going.

I just cannot understand women. I'm not a "bitch nigger" or a "home shoe" (that's an expression we use for a guy/girl who would do anything her/his partner asks them and who are without their backbone and can't make their own stand/choice/opinion) tough I really try to make her as happy as I can (if I really love somebody and she is the 2nd person I really do, I try to make them the happiest person on the planet as much as it is in my power tough I never become an obeying "dog" without the backbone).

So how can all the girls I know/meet/date turn out to be a lot worse (personality wise) than me? I mean why is it happening to me, what have I done to deserve this?

It it would at least happen at the very start of a relationship so it wouldn't hurt so much.

Enough with all of the bullshit...comments are welcomed...thank you.

[TheSphinx]

Quite a flurry of text there, Crammond.

Things do not sound positive with this woman, and you don't seem to be experiencing much outside of stress over this relationship.

How soon after meeting a woman are you into a serious relationship with her?

You sound as if you could benefit from relaxing and dating a few different women. This might be objectionable based on your morals or social customs, but it's low pressure and definitely allows you to experience a woman before getting into something so serious.

With a busy work schedule, your remaining free time should be valuable to you. Is it worth spending that time trying to expose your girlfriend's infidelity? I think you know that by this point, you owe yourself something better.

~Sphinx

[Crammond]

I agree that I own myself something better ...but the question "will i find somebody better" pops into my head?

It's a stupid question yet it haunts me.... I don't know..maybe I'm addicted to dating. Or let me put it into a better sentance. Maybe I'm addicted to being in a relationship... Maybe I need to be in a relationship because when I'm not I'm more depressed, I have low energy, I'm just laying, exhausted from nothing (happened sometimes).... Yet I'm not addicted to any relationship that I could get. I tried 2 relationships (short ones, dating 2 girls in between my ex and my current GF). Both of them looked rather nice girls yet I somehow couldn't let myself take it to another level... And I don't know why. Like it clicks only with women, that I probably shouldn't waste my time with...

I just somehow, now twice in a row, meet a woman, that I like and love a lot more than I receive back and I just want to make them know, they rock my world. Let them know that she is my princess, my queen, my loved one...The one that I'd do anything for...


I think I fall in love a bit to fast and that's what gets me hurt eventually. Maybe I expect to receive the same feedback from the woman as I give it to her yet I'm the one that falls in love quickly.. I know I should seek some proffesional help, tough talking to strangers in person just isn't the thing to me. They all look like shrinks that just want to get inside you head and mess with it some more.... So none of that for me, no thank you.

[TheSphinx]

Asking "will I find anyone better?" will always cost your opportunity in exchange for a little more security.

You sound like a guy who likes to treat women right, but I also sense that once you become involved with a woman, she quickly becomes a huge part of your "foundation." Read this section of your last post:

Maybe I need to be in a relationship because when I'm not I'm more depressed, I have low energy, I'm just laying, exhausted from nothing

What I mean by "foundation" is the other areas in your life (think career, family, finances, play, etc.). The women I have known in my life are attracted to (and stick with) men who are content, confident and have the energy to chase down what they want. These guys achieve this before they meet these women, and the space each partner gets from being an aspect of the others life, rather than the absolute focus, actually helps their relationship strengthen.

Crammond, in my opinion, I think you'd greatly benefit from getting into something (or a few things) outside of work. You don't have to know what it is right away and don't shy away from attempting something new. You'll meet people, develop an interesting life (or at the very least, have interesting experiences) and meet wonderful people.

Don't sweat being able to find someone better. There are billions of women in the world! I bet if you can find joy outside of solely one woman, you'll be having so much fun that the thought will scarcely cross your mind. And when women see that your energy flows from you and not into you from the world, you will have answered their own "will I find someone better?"

~Sphinx