Everything you never wanted to know about me.

[Moonchild]

It DOES matter, and I want you to make a thread now and tell us about it

Okay, just so it's clear that it's DM's fault.

I was kind of stuck between this forum and Personal Development, because Personal Development is more for self and Love Advice is for dealing with other people. Issue being, Love Advice is for relationships mostly, and I'm not in a relationship with the person in question.

Now then, that's settled...

**IF YOU DON'T LIKE LONG POSTS, SKIP TO THE BOTTOM, YA LAZY BUMS. >>**

Background with the person in question.

Ninth grade, first semester. We had chorus together, and neither one of us got the e-mail that said practice was cancelled. So we were stuck at school from about six to seven in the evening with about ten other people. I don't remember why we started talking, but we did. About a trading card game, actually, and she said something about how the original artist had been fired, but was so much better than the new people doing the artwork. Something about the game dying out partly due to that... Well, we got along well enough. She'd come from private school, so she didn't know anyone, and I'd come from one of many "feeder" middle schools, so not many of the people I'd associated with before moved on to the same place. We were fast friends, sharing many, many interests, showing each other stories and sitting by each other in choir. She's always been a bit of a genius and a hard worker, and I really admired that. Still do. We get our schedules for the next semester, and, turns out, we have Algebra II together as well. We spent the next two and a half years figuring each other out, learning all the quirks, sharing laughs, learning how differently we would tend to act when together and apart. One teacher in particular (of the aforementioned Algebra II class) had us together for two courses, including first-level Calculus. Then she dropped maths, and I took Calculus C with the same person. I was a lot more fragile then, and he became one person I could go to for anything, partly encouraged by the fact that I was more reserved without her, and probably caused concern. Both of us were that way, really. There was one teacher we both had for History at two separate times in our junior year, but when we were seniors, in Sociology together with the same guy. He was a bit surprised, really, because both of us were a lot more talkative and open when we were in the same place. Senior year was when I started to feel interest, though. I wanted to date my best friend. Problem? She's straight. "Possibly asexual," according to her, since the only relationship she's had wasn't her idea, and she simply didn't know how to say no. And it has been established that she doesn't like snogging, either. So I simply ignored it. Got myself boyfriend number six, went from there.

I tried to convince myself to go to her college. I knew that coming here, I'd be alone, or nearly. I knew that I liked her--lord, I /love/ her! So much, too. But you know, that may have been part of it. Add a little distance, keep the emotions in check. I found this campus more appealing. The professors at the other intimidated me quite a bit, but the ones here made me laugh and, when I showed up, tried to make me feel at home, from the very first day. I'd signed up for the seminar taught by the funniest professor I'd met up to that point. The seminar professor doubles as the first-year advisor. But he took a semester off, and I was transferred... Got him back, though. Good guy. Funny as hell. I talk with her every day over AIM. We go kind of half-and-half--roleplay and regular conversation. But she's been stressed as of late... Well, I suppose this is what chat logs are good for, right? Um, let's see if I can find some of the more important things...

When she gets like this, I don't know how to help. I just say what comes to mind and hope that things get better--but it's all been piling up as of late...

Goodness, this is way more than 30,000 characters. >__> Freaking 10,000 character limit. Four posts, then.

[Moonchild]

PART I : HER PROBLEM

[23:17] Her: But yeah, it's also... well, most of the time people don't really know what to do when you're crying
[23:17] Me: Yeah. I'm guilty of that, I think, especially when it's not in person... It's easier in person to just offer a hug and comforting words and just /be there/, but you lose two of those when that's impossible.
[23:26] Her: Even in person
[23:26] Her: you can't /talk/ to anyone anymore
[23:29] Me: Mm, true. But I guess I can understand why, a little--I'm the kind of person who cries when someone says they don't like me, you know? ^^; So I'm too careful sometimes, I try not to say anything that might be taken badly--which is most things, actually... It's weird and messed up, but it's... maybe not human nature, but mine, certainly. My faults lie in different areas, typically, than those of other people, so I can be more useful when they're not, but far less when it comes to being careful with something. ...I don't know if that made any sense. ^^;
[23:29] Her: I...think I get what you're saying
[23:30] Her: thing is, though. I've been not-talking-to-people about what's actually bothering me since... I don't know, July?
[23:31] Me: Because you don't want to, can't, or can't find someone to listen?
[23:31] Her: All of the above
[23:32] Her: and the one time I DID try to talk about it -- with my mom, no less -- it turned into violent explosion. On her end, not mine. And me crying harder.
[23:33] Her: so it's a little selfish of me, and incredibly stupid... but when I say I'm feeling miserable and the immediate response is "oh, I'll leave you alone, then"... particularly if it's several people in a row who do it... I just want to go curl up in a corner and give up, you know?
[23:36] Me: Well, I don't know how good I am at listening--that's for speakers to decide, not me--but if you ever decide to increase that number of tries, I'll do my best. And no, it's not selfish or stupid. I can understand it... and in my case, I should have understood it immediately. Why would you be online if you didn't want to talk to people? That sort of thing. But in my defense, it wasn't my /immediate/ response, took me a while... But I'm sorry for that. I care, you know I do. And I may make mistakes, but I do and say what I think, what I feel might help, even a little, while still having that don't-step-on-anything-pointy attitude--which, as previously said, can turn into an issue. But I think.... I think you should never give up. Do what you did with me--say, "Just /talk/." And I'll do my best.
[23:37] Her: I think it's too late
[23:37] Her: I don't even know anymore
[23:37] Her: there's too much crap that's ripping me to pieces from the inside out
[23:37] Her: I'm sorry
[23:37] Her: I'm ****ing sorry, okay
[23:38] Her: I shouldn't be doing this to you, you've got enough to deal with
[23:43] Me: No, no, it's okay. It's okay. You're not doing anything wrong--and I don't particularly have a lot to deal with at the moment, and I like when I can help you. So there's no reason to feel guilty. I enjoy talking with you, with good or bad topics, no matter what the mood or emotion behind it. I enjoy your company, online or off. And I like you in one piece. You understand me better than I do myself, I think--and that kind of friendship isn't one way. I'm not simply willing--I /want/ to understand you, to try to help you understand the parts of yourself that are impossible for you to view from the outside. It's never too late for anything. It's never too late to start sorting life out--even if you just write it down, and write to no one. Life has no order, but everyone needs to make some sense out of it. I have obligations, yes. To class, to clubs... But this is not an obligation. This is not something I do because I feel I have to--I try to be here for you because I /want/ to.
[23:44] Her: ...I have a confession, then
[23:44] Me: Go ahead.
[23:44] Her: and it is not necessarily a great confession to make at 11:44 PM when I am about to pass out any second, but I ****ing need to tell someone
[23:44] Me: ^^ It's okay.
[23:44] Her: My parents would probably be getting a divorce right now if my mom wasn't waiting for my dad to die
[23:47] Me: Mm... I must admit not knowing what to say to that. But you've mentioned things before that made me think things weren't quite... Sorry. I wish I knew what to say. But the best guess I have for it is that it's not fair to you, I guess. Not any problems--they can't really be helped, just... you being in the middle of it. ^^; I'm not making much sense, am I?
[23:47] Her: nah, I get it
[23:48] Her: damn it, now I feel ****ing emo
[23:49] Me: >< That's understandable... The advantage of trying not to think about it is that you don't think about it.
[23:49] Her: except that you do
[23:49] Her: Particularly when everyone around me is all "=D Your mom is so awesome! I wish my parents were like yours" all the time.
[23:50] Her: I want to hit them, sometimes, even though I know they don't know
[23:51] Me: Yeah... That makes sense, too. But it's the problem of view. Your parents--like all--play up everything good, and sort of pass that on to anyone passing through. It's like dating, in a strange way--someone looks good at first, but as you get to know them, you sometimes find out that they're not quite who you thought they were.
[23:52] Her: I know. And... this is strange... I'm more surrounded by the people I love and trust than I've ever been before, but... I'm lonely.
[23:53] Her: I look forward to this, to talking to you, because I know you're going to be there
[23:54] Me: I wish I could help more than I do. And love and trust doesn't necessarily mean understanding... That's not something I can even offer words for.
[23:55] Me: ...And I look forward to it, too. Because I've been lonely my entire life, and you... Well, you understand.
[23:55] Her: More and more often, I'm finding myself here in my room, working or on the computer or something by myself... and right next door I can hear everyone else having a good time
[23:56] Her: and it's weird. Because I know I could go over there... I mean, the door's open and all, but... I'm still on the outside looking in
[23:58] Me: Yeah... And when it comes to reasoning it out, it's hard to think of anything in particular that prevents actually getting up and going over--I understand. But that's something I haven't solved with myself, either... So all I can do is understand.
[23:59] Her: e_e It's always where I'm not. It shouldn't prevent me from doing anything about it, but... that's how it is.
[00:04] Me: Mm, that's what I don't like about being all the way over here. I can't spend time with you in person--you're the most fun person I know, though. And I know this'll make me sound kind of messed up and weird and maybe even a little not-me-ish, but... loneliness can be abnormal, and a lot of counseling sites have advice on how to start helping it. It might not all be useful, but it's another thing to do if you have spare time. I looked around a while ago, and while I didn't feel as if I could really use the advice they gave, I think I understand it a little better than I did. Why it all is, I mean.
[00:04] Her: ehhh, I'm a little wary of those sites
[00:09] Me: Mm, just helped me a little, I guess, to read something that sounded like the writer knew what he/she was talking about. But what I got out of it was less flat fact and more just thinking more about what's actually going on in my head. And, contrary to what most of them say, I've decided that going to counseling won't help. Didn't before, won't in the future, even if my dad tries to push me back to the psychologist. I'm lonely because I'm not interacting with the same set of people day in and day out. I'm lonely because I have no one here who knows the stories from when I was younger, or what I liked in high school. I'm lonely because I've always had trouble reaching out to people, being too shy. I'm lonely because I have no one around who can say they love me without it being over a phone line or IM. I could list tonnes more... But as I said, it's more what comes out of thinking than what they actually say. Or, that's how it was for me.
[00:16] Her: I've never been one to trust anyone who advises going to get counselling -- if anyone will understand you, it won't be some stranger in a room, no matter how much training they've got on how to be polite and nod and listen
[00:16] Me: XD And that's all they ever do.
[00:17] Her: I knoooow
[00:17] Her: Or, when you ask them for advice, they sit there and list your options
[00:17] Her: and you're like "YES. I KNOW. I JUST EXPLAINED THEM TO YOU."
[00:18] Me: Yeah. XD I think the best thing I ever did, to be perfectly honest, was to break down crying in my advisor's office. He at least made me feel better. The college counselors have PhDs in sitting and nodding. >>
[00:19] Her: ...yeah, my advisor sucks
[00:20] Her: It's ironic... but the only one I can really talk to about everything is my dad, and that's because I don't HAVE to talk to him. He just seems to know
[00:24] Me: Mm. Why are dads like that? Mine does the same... It's unusual. And I didn't like my advisor, so I requested a change... but it's also fun bothering professors who are just fun and understanding. I cried in front of all my professors the first semester here, and quickly learned that the one who understood best was the one whose class I hated. >> Psychology. He wasn't getting paid to sit and nod--he actually gave advice. Like a fortune cookie that actually gives a fortune--rare as heck, but wonderful when you find one. I haven't had the guts to approach him since, though, since I'll never have dealings with him again.
[00:24] Me: Whee, I got off-topic quick.
[00:26] Her: XD
[00:27] Her: ...meh.
[00:27] Me: XD I think it's 12.30's fault. Meh?

[Moonchild]

[00:27] Her: I don't know
[00:27] Her: I want to talk to people, but I don't really know how anymore
[00:28] Her: Last time I tried to talk to my mom, it ended with me struggling to explain and her going "So you're saying you hate me now and you don't want to be home" and "So you're saying you wish we didn't have the kittens and the horse" and I'm like WTF. that's not what I said.
[00:29] Her: trouble is, I don't know what I AM saying
[00:29] Her: and I'm just... terrified. All the time. that I'm doing something /wrong/.
[00:37] Me: Mm, figure out who the most abstract thinker you trust is. Sounds like she was trying to reason it out too much, I think... Sometimes the best people to talk to are the ones who just take something as it is, whether it makes sense or no, and leave it outside the box rather than trying to drag it in. And not knowing is what other people are useful for--they can help put the puzzle together, in a way. Even if you didn't intend to, that's kind of what you do for me. And everyone will do some things that they regret later on. Or regret doing something they couldn't have changed. But even with a little possible wrong, there is a great deal of /right/. Concentrating on what might be wrong is easy to do, but may, in fact, be wrong in itself. I like everything about you. I don't see any wrongs, even if you do. But seeing that in yourself--and I can say this one for certain--is part of human nature. Even those who come across as full of it have some self-doubt. But being like that is rather like being afraid of the dark--it's scary because you don't know what's there and you can't see what's going on very well, but it can't hurt you. And making mistakes might sting for a little while, but unless you kill someone, it won't hurt you. You're a good person, a fun person, a nice person, a loving, caring person who, like half the population, doesn't quite know what to do. There is no wrong in that.
[00:39] Her: ...I am not. I am a ****ing selfish, self-absorbed, socially inept weeaboo with no writing skill, no drive, no point to life, and quite honestly I think you'd all be happier without me being... me.
[00:39] Her: And she wasn't trying to reason it out, she was doing what she ALWAYS does
[00:39] Her: which is make everything ****ing personal
[00:53] Me: Mm, similar, if someone's trying to reason in their own context. And on those points... You apologized more than once to me in the course of this conversation. I have never once felt used or that you were being unreasonable. It's not selfish at all to want to be happy and full and loved--those are necessary parts of the human experience. And being a bit interested in your own happiness and well-being is far from the harsher "self-absorbed" that you used above. On socially inept, I don't quite believe that. You have friends there, people you love and trust--you're surrounded by them, as you said yourself. And even with me, so many years ago, you actually spoke to me in the lobby that night. About a trading card game, if I recall, and how an older artist was better than a newer one, or something of that nature. Also how no one played anymore... If everyone were a social butterfly, we'd never be able to think for ourselves. Sabrina, for example, can't stand being alone, can't amuse herself at all... There's a different degree to each of these things. Being unable to walk into a room and joining the not-party party isn't being socially inept, I think, it's more just being too bothered by internal things and self-image (a problem for both of us) that gets in the way. I don't know what a weeaboo is. I happen to like your writing very much, moreso than most published authors I've read works of. And no, I'm not just saying that because I know and love you--your style is unique and wonderful, and everything, even incomplete, draws me in. Every word, every image... I enjoy everything you put on paper. The drive is something that's related to not being quite sure of direction.... and this affects most people. When you figure out where to point your arrow, the drive will come as needed. You have a point to life, as everyone does. You may not be sure of direction, as I said, but that's not so much a point as it's just something you do--until that drive appears to make it life, as happens to many who become dedicated to their fields. But as it stands, you make me happy. You make so many people happy--those who are happiest seek your company and are your friends. We all love you. None of us see you as just another person--someone who is, entirely, just another person really does have no point. But you're wonderful. (And I'm going to continue, give me a sec, this is long. XD;)
[00:56] Me: I most certainly would not be happier if you were less you than you are. As I've said, I see no wrongs. You're my friend. You are the person who has been here for me every time something's wrong, who has helped me through the worst times in my life, who has sacrificed some sleep here and there to talk to me. No one can match that, ever. I'm your friend because of who you are, not who you aren't. And I can say for sure that that goes for all of us who call ourselves your friends.
[00:56] Me: Whew. XD;
[01:00] Her: e_e One. I am, in fact, selfish and self-absorbed. If I were not both of these things, I would not be having this conversation. Two. I am socially inept; I am friends with people because I can make them laugh, not because I am actually worth spending time with. My friendship with you is... some sort of oddity, I honestly don't know why you stand me. Three. A weeaboo is, essentially, an Internet ****tard who spends more time with the voices in her head than with the real world. Four. I can't even call myself a writer if I don't write. Which I don't. Five. I do not have drive because I am a lazy procrastinator and I am coasting on the bare minimum to look successful without actually getting anywhere. Six. I am not wonderful; you could find a dozen far better than me on Washcoll campus just by walking around for two minutes.
[01:13] Me: On one, the selfish and the self-absorbed tend to sacrifice the emotions of those around them in order to have some benefit. Or they're just annoying. You do neither of the above. For two and six, I like you because you /are/ wonderful. Maybe I'm not so odd after all. There could be many who think the same. I can't speak for them, but I imagine that their friendship with you is more than just for the laughs. I "stand" you because you're everything I've elaborated on above--I do, in fact, think you're [insert one of a million positive adjectives here]. Wonderful, amazing, caring, interesting, fun, friendly... For three, I guess I'm a weeaboo then as well. It happens when the real world is too messed up to deal with, and I don't see it as quite so much of a bad thing. Could arise partly from the loneliness, also a bit from boredom. When nothing else seems better than browsing the internet and dealing with fictional characters... For four, I can understand that. Makes sense, anyway, but things still creep in when we're roleplaying--extended paragraphs that go into detailed actions, for example. I reread the log just to look back at some of those. For five, you don't have to have your entire life set in stone right now. The bare minimum, in this case, is acceptable. Drive isn't something that dies away, never to return. You'll find it the day you discover something worth fighting for with everything you have. On six, though already addressed--I doubt it. No one could be a better friend than you. I'd put my life on that. My soul, since I believe in eternity. Everything I have, everything I will have, and whatever reputation I might be carrying around.
[01:14] Her: mrrr. e_e My roleplaying skills = about zero, anyway.
[01:15] Her: i'm too damned tired to argue anymore
[01:16] Me: Mm, it's early, isn't it... (I'll just point out that 2500-ish pages and still having fun says otherwise. >>) Do you want to sleep?
[01:16] Her: a little... I have to wake up at 7 or so, I think
[01:19] Me: Yeah, it's probably a good idea, then. I'm still going to be on for a while; I don't need to be up until 10.00 and I have something to get done. Not pressing, just side spam. So if not wanting to outweighs that little, I'll still be here in either case.
[01:19] Her: e_e 2500 pages or whatever with you. and only you. no one else is really interested, ever.
[01:21] Me: Mm, everyone else is just weird, then. >> (No one else is interested for me, either.) Roleplaying doesn't seem as big as it once was, especially if there's no graphic aspect. I mention roleplaying to people and, ten times out of ten, the response is, "What game?" Text isn't good enough, I guess. But that's completely unrelated to skill.
[01:22] Her: mrrr. but I hang out with roleplayers. AIM RPers and LARPers.
[01:22] Her: my characters are just... not interesting enough, I guess.
[01:22] Her: (which makes some of them cry, particularly the wizard, but oh well)
[01:22] Me: Excuse me for slipping into this, but it's the first thing that came to mind...
Elizar: OBJECTION! >>
[01:23] Her: XD;;; *has mental image of Elizar as Phoenix and Asher as Edgeworth*
[01:23] Me: XDDDDD I did not think of that. The image! XD
[01:24] Me: Well, I find them interesting. Very, completely. XD The roleplay is the most fun thing I do, to be perfectly honest. Beats out PSO, anime club, and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. All at once.
[01:25] Me: The only thing it does not beat out is spending actual time with you, but it seems to creep in there anyway. >>
[01:25] Her: mrrr. e_e They're not much, though. I mean, I don't think things through, I just sort of toss things together... I've stopped updating the wiki, though I keep intending to...

[Moonchild]

[01:27] Me: I haven't thought anything through since Celia came along. Planned or not, organized or not, and even with the occasional mess we make (remember when Hunter said something while not having his voice? Yeah. >>), it's still a hell of a lot of fun. The Wiki isn't a necessary element, just a way to not forget things like birthdays and eye colours and timelines. Whatever can be remembered on its own can just be remembered on its own, especially if it's recent.
[01:28] Her: regardless, in terms of writing skill, lack of planning or actual writingness = meh.
[01:29] Her: You've practically finished Trial. e_e I only have the most basic skeleton of plot events.
[01:32] Me: XD Mm.... I wouldn't call 45 pages and an outline for more "practically finished". I'd call it "has not been touched in a year", like everything else I write, save the poetry. What I ended up doing, and I don't regret it, even though I've come to a grinding halt, was just writing the scenes that were interesting at the time and putting things together. Made the seams less noticeable later on, and it seemed to work pretty well. But no planning at all, aside from my "basic skeleton". So by your definition, I'm not a writer--let alone one with any skill--either.
[01:32] Her: You have forty-five pages to my zero.
[01:33] Me: Most of which was written because I was being graded on it.
[01:33] Her: You had considerably more before that, which was scrapped, as I recall?
[01:34] Me: Ah, the stuff from middle school? Mm.... Not even the same story, really, just later in time in the same universe. Trial in its form now ends when Elizar runs off. Like the ending of the Giver, though I once swore I'd never do that. XD;
[01:36] Me: The difficult thing about writing is that sometimes it just /comes/. And most of the time, it doesn't want to.
[01:38] Her: ...When it does come, these days, I don't write it anymore.
[01:40] Me: Why's that?
[01:46] Her: I don't know. It never comes out right when I sit down to write it.
[01:46] Her: It's all in my head, I know that. But it's... not there.
[01:49] Me: I think I know what you mean... But sometimes it's better to force it, as messed up as that sounds. XD; Even if a first draft isn't of quality you're used to, that doesn't mean it can't be fixed later.
[01:49] Her: e_e
[01:49] Her: ...well, it's now nearly five hours 'till I must be up for class.
[01:49] Her: I'mma go sleep, okay?
[01:50] Me: Okay. Hope you feel better tomorrow. Er, later today. Whatever.
[01:50] Her: Hahaha that's funny
[01:50] Her: no. I doubt it. This doesn't go away overnight.
[01:50] Me: Well, I can still hope. And if it doesn't, I'll hope tomo---today, later, too.
[01:51] *** "Her" signed off at Thu Sep 06 01:51:05 2007.

PART II : MY PROBLEM

[02:29] Her: ((e_e It's 2:30...))
[02:29] Me: ((So it is. >< Goodnight?))
[02:29] Her: ((But I want to get this done tonight... D= Because things are going to get Awkward if the characters have to spend overnight in wherever they are...))
[02:30] Me: ((Mm, wouldn't that make it more fun, though?))
[02:33] Her: ((Meeehhhrr. I always feel really really weird about leaving it at a totally awkward time.))
[02:33] Me: ((We could pretend it hasn't been overnight when we pick it up again. XD;)
[02:33] Her: ((Because then the things we say we're going to finish tomorrow, we don't actually finish tomorrow.))
[02:34] Her: ((We just sort of... blargle. I don't know.))
[02:34] Me: ((If you want to finish this up, we can. But it's not a five-minute thing, and I'm worried about you and sleep. D=))
[02:34] Her: ((I need sleep. I desperately need sleep. But I ****ing hate this.))
[02:35] Her: ((And it keeps on happening.))
[02:38] Me: ((I'm sorry. I don't know what I can do. >< If I could magically make it so neither of us need sleep, I would. If I could magically make it so everything works out all right in exactly one night, I would. ..Though the second one, I can probably help. ...I started this one because things were dying out again and I was worried. Because it's hard to find holes in my characters like this, and the forest stuff from the original Trial is all that came to mind. I don't know what to do... I mean, we could recap the conversation up to this point and continue right from there--that's my only idea. Beyond that, I don't really......))
[02:39] Her: ((Remember a while ago, we said that we were going to make it so that it didn't have to be exactly real-time? And that never happened?))
[02:40] Her: ((And maybe it should die out. Maybe I actually need a rest every now and then.))
[02:40] Her: ((Maybe that's what I actually mean when I tell you that the voices in my head are *shrug* or "same as usual" or something like that -- because /I am tired and it has been a long day and the last thing on my mind when my life is falling apart are the troubles of imaginary people/.))
[02:47] Me: ((For count one, it didn't really get to the point where I saw need for a jump. For count two, maybe it should. For count three... For count three, I fail at social stuff. I honestly, truthfully fail. I never know what to say to you, you know? You already know everything about me. Everything... And what I do every day just repeats, week to week, and I never find anything new online, and I never go out with people, and I never read an interesting book, and I never talk to anyone interesting, and I never go interesting places. There's nothing to my life at all, so sometimes, the only thing I can think to say is, "How are they?" You know everything else. You know that I talk to approximately two people other than you, you know that I rarely leave my room and have literally nothing to do on weekends, you know that I don't have any interesting clubs that do any interesting events. Neither of us are big on having someone there to just sit and nod, but I don't know what else to do. I'm really sorry for all this. I really am. But I don't know what else to do with myself... There's nothing here. There's nothing here at all. And I just want to talk to you, but I don't have much to say. I certainly don't have much you can respond to.))
[02:48] Her: ((...I'm signing off now, okay? Because I'm in a terrible mood and this is only going to get worse if I respond to that.))
[02:48] Me: ((I'm sorry. Goodnight...))

...When she's happy, she's wonderful. When she's sad and stressed, I'm not sure what to do. I regret what I said, and I don't like how I can't really get my tone across to her--rereading that, I can see how it could be taken in a somewhat unpleasant manner.

**IF YOU SKIPPED, START HERE.**

I have problems. Social anxiety disorder--I've been speaking with someone here on campus about it. Public speaking phobia. Just... general social dysfunction. She has problems. Stress from class, stress from parents, stress from parents /moving/... I no longer agree with her on the "psychologists don't help" point. Ranting has its uses. But... Excuse how I phrase this, but we're both really ****ed up and I don't know what to do anymore. Loving her doesn't even come into play here--I want my friend to be okay. I want to /help/. I just don't know how.

[miSSleepy]

WOW

One thing that bothered me about her is her refusal to listen to you at all. You were very patient, describing her qualities and why you like her so much, but all she did was rebut you as if arguing against a bill for a chemical plant at a debate. She didn't really accept any one of your compliments, and that's probably half her problem.

I have a friend with the same attitude whose life is also not exactly the best at the moment either. I did exactly what you did, for days on end, and I would get nothing but rebuttal in return. It gets a bit draining and frustrating and sometimes I get angry at her, thinking "Can't you even give me credit for seeing these things in you? I'm trying to help here". And it's a difficult position. I want to do everything in my power to help this girl, but it's almost impossible. She won't see a cunsellor either because she doesn't want to talk to a stranger so I feel like i'm not only one in position to help her, but she won't let me.

So in your situation, I guess all you can do is continue to be good friends and share these things with each other. If you both have loneliness issues, then it's important that you at least have each other. Talking is therapuetic, even if it doesn't seem like it at first.
You seem like an amazing friend by the way. My opinion of you just esecalated more than it has during any of your other posts combined.

[vashti]

This is going to sound callous, but I don't mean for it to...

You can't save people from themselves. You can suggest she go for counseling, but if she doesn't want to do it, there is nothing you can do. Quite honestly, at some point you will get sick of hearing her complain about things when she won't make every effort to help herself.

If what I said makes no sense, it may be because I skipped down to the bottom paragraph of your post.

[Gribble]

There isn't much more you can do to help. You've offered suggestions and a shoulder to cry on. What more can you do? You can't force her to seek professional guidance. She's going to have to make that decision on her own.

I wish I had some pearl of wisdom to impart, but I don't. She's stuck in this downward spiral until she determines she's had enough.

[Moonchild]

Thanks. ._. Yeah, it's something only she can pull herself from. But my main concern is probably the fact that it's getting more and more difficult to figure out what frustrates her, because the entire situation is getting more and more fragile. She knows I will forever be in her cheerleading section, so to speak, but...

I don't know. Most of it will reset over winter break, at least.

[Gigabitch]

You are a delightful girl, Moonchild. I really like you.

Your friend needs to do some evolving. I don't know if you're helping her or hindering her, actually. It seems to me that she needs some kind of dramatic departure from familiar things to get some perspective on the world and her path through it. She seems awfully comfortable being The Broken Princess, and I think it's possible that you're supporting her in that role.

You're a cheerleader, not a mechanic. There comes a point where you have to let her take responsibility for herself. You love her, of course, but you can't live her life for her.

I think you might also want to look at how much of your energy is pouring into her where it's clearly not having much of an effect. Eventually, that's going to start to deplete you, even if it is in the name of love and kindness.

[Moonchild]

I think you might also want to look at how much of your energy is pouring into her where it's clearly not having much of an effect. Eventually, that's going to start to deplete you, even if it is in the name of love and kindness.

Mm. While true, it's not as if I have anything else to do with my life. ._.;

[Gigabitch]

Mm. While true, it's not as if I have anything else to do with my life. ._.;

Then she's distracting you from what you should be working on, which is your own life.

[Gribble]

Listen to Giga, she's smart.

Depression defies logic. A person can have everything and still feel miserable. Look at your friend. She's clearly intelligent and she has a true friend in you. Friends like that are one in a million. She has a lot more than most but she's still miserable and she still feels worthless no matter what you do or say. You can't reason with depression.

I believe nothing and everything frustrates her.

[Moonchild]

Gigabitch: Don't know what to work on, really. I go to class, I do well, I take care of all my responsibilities just fine... I'm just bad with people. I talk with her, my roommate, and someone from Japanese class. And due to the rather forced online nature of our relationship while we're both away at college, I can multitask and talk to her while talking with those other two people. Just so happens that they're the type to sit in on weekends, too. The lights here in the dorm room tend not to go on, even, until about 4.00 PM on a Saturday, simply because we're too lazy to actually deal with it. I'm talking with someone about the social anxiety thing, but I don't know what else I can do with myself when being around too many people scares the crap out of me.

Gribble: In a way, I can understand what she's going through, and I must admit to being part of the problem on this count. Everyone around her is figuring out what they're going to do in life, where they're going to be, what they'd like to do. I've known since eighth grade, when I wrote in all the CS courses on my four year plan for high school. She's majoring in what she thinks interesting, but she's stuck on what to do with it. Part of her reason for choosing those two majors in particular may have simply been so she has /something/ to major in. She doesn't know what to do with it. She doesn't know what she wants to do with it, or what's possible to do with that kind of thing. She's trying to look beyond college, but can't. And me having my life in order certainly doesn't help with where she thinks she's supposed to be at this stage. I just wish I could do something about all of it. I guess my feeling of hopelessness is a problem in itself, isn't it?

[Charlie Boy II]

hmmm it does sound like a tricky situation. I feel for you Moonchild. What if you nibbled at each other's carpets? Do you think that could help in some way?

[DoesntMatter]

I just saw this thread but don't have to time to read it now cause I have a prelim in 2 hours and need to cram but when it's over I will Moonie Mwua!