why do some girls date down

[GrkScorp]

Also, I recommend against assuming that no matter what your career is, you MUST be more successful than the woman you are trying to talk to. That is rather arrogant, and besides, we all know the world hates lawyers.

I said no such thing.. but it just happens to be the case that women I meet don't have their future as carefully & realistically planned out..

Given, you get the aspiring.. actresses/prefomers/artists/writers/musicians/models/dancers/teachers/etc..

But even from the more educated breed.. lawyers (constitutional law, international law), doctors (pediatrics), dentists (general)

with the exception of pediatrics & general dentistry, the legal specializations these women pick don't reasonably add up to a stable high-paying job in the future.. and when you slowly peel the layers off of their future plans, you start to realize that they're not independent at all.. in fact, their future is heavily dependent on them finding a guy to support them.. as for the "dreamers", with the exception of NYC teachers which get paid well over ($70k) annually with full-health insurance and the largest state retirement pension fund; it goes unsaid that their future plans are heavily dependent on finding that guy to make up for their lake of determination, willpower, and ambition..

Not that I mind; I mean, I do.. but given the numbers.. it's actually rare to find a woman who takes her financial future and independence seriously.. to the hard & cold reality is that women in New York fiddle with "dreams" until they find some guy who isn't.. That only works in my favor as time goes on; and the luxury of choice becomes even more broader.. (but that's an entirely different conversational thread)

I also actually like taking care of the other person.. But that doesn't mean that I prefer them to be less financially successful/independent than myself.. Yeah, women like someone to take care of them, and guys like to take care of someone, but the reality is, that in NYC, both people need to be working (and not some BS job), to be providing well for their family, AND accumulating enough equity by age 40.. by age 50, college is around the corner, and it should be able to easily be financed, a steady cashflow should be maintained to pay off for the primary residence and any investment properties (which hopefully leave a positive cashflow).. that's a solid plan; but if the guy is the only earning-asset in the family, that's a plan that will be materialized after age 60, when it's too late..

[misombra]

i don't know that i'm all that particular about dating up or down.

i would particularly not date somebody who gave a tremendous amount of thought to what tax bracket i should be dating in. i am invaluable. plus, i can make the living i want just fine on my own.

[vashti]

GRKSCORP - It is hard for me to buy that the majority of women in NYC are aspiring models/dancers/etc. Maybe that is because none of the women I know living in NYC (past or present) did that, and they all managed to support themselves.

Are you looking for a woman to supplement your income? Also, are you paying your way through school on your own?

[GrkScorp]

GRKSCORP - It is hard for me to buy that the majority of women in NYC are aspiring models/dancers/etc. Maybe that is because none of the women I know living in NYC (past or present) did that, and they all managed to support themselves.

Are you looking for a woman to supplement your income? Also, are you paying your way through school on your own?

No, they're not.. the majority are Media majors, Marketing majors, and Business majors (Accounting, Economics, Finance, Management, Human Resources, etc)

Some women who go into business actually have the motivation and ambition to survive; which I think is sexy.. but the ones who usually do are not my type; they're my brother's type (Asian).. not that I have a problem with Asian women; it's just that aggressive Asian woman are not sexy, at least not to me..

Am I looking for a woman to supplement my income?

Well, we can digress a little bit from the thread I guess.. Personally I would roughly estimate $150-250k from salary; and conservatively, $90-120k net income from a private accounting/law practice (small office, under 10 employees). The secret to wealth is using other people's labor to make money for yourself.. (income/year isn't nearly as useful as income/hour of YOUR labor). So by myself, that would leave me in the $240-370k range "gross". I'd definitely need to be filing as MFJ in that range, and it could support a primary residence (debt financed at 80%), with roughly $80k left over for other expenses, savings, etc.. So say about $20k per year goes into savings.. at that rate, that's about 1 investement property (2-family + store) every 8 years. That's horrible! (and i'm not taking college education into consideration after 17 years!)

If I had a household with 2 earning-assets (myself and my partner), her extra, let's say $150k would translate to $75k net, $25k of which would go towards living expenses (so everyone could benefit from a slightly better lifestyle; mostly the kids), but more importantly, $50k of which would go towards investing.. That would mean $70k per year towards investment properties.. that's 1 investment property every 2.5 years.. in 10 years, that's 4 investment properties; saving us taxes, leaving a positive cashflow, and accumulating equity..

In 20 years, that could be 8 properties, PLUS (since they leave a positive cashflow for all those years), enough money to cover the cost of a college education for the kids, and again, since all investment properties leave a positive cashflow, and accumulate equity as the loan gets paid off, there's a more than secure retirement plan (by age 50!), and more than enough to write off on the will and leave to each child.

It's not a small difference.. it's a HUGE difference.. that's eventually what i'm aiming for.. but if I don't find the right partner to help me get there.. then i'll have to fall into work-wh0re mode for 20 years and set up offices in 2-3 locations and jump around and manage them.. But I don't feel it's fair to either partner (even the guy, just because he's the guy) to not enjoy his life, just so he can provide for his family.. If both partners are earners.. they can both work moderately & modestly, enjoy some luxuries and financial security, and still enjoy their life.. and more importantly.. eachother..

[TheSphinx]

Some women who go into business actually have the motivation and ambition to survive; which I think is sexy.. but the ones who usually do are not my type; they're my brother's type (Asian).. not that I have a problem with Asian women; it's just that aggressive Asian woman are not sexy, at least not to me..

I've noticed that the executive career minded women that I have dated like to date what a lot of people would consider "down."

Each of them has stated something to the effect of desiring a relationship in which they could relax and allow a man to take the lead for a couple evenings a week.

Frequently this turns out to be a guy is in a totally different career field (i.e. white water tour guide) and not intimidated by her mannerism. None of these women are married yet, so I am unsure if their preferences will change when they begin to consider it.

Oh, and aggressive Asian women make me roar.

~Sphinx

[vashti]

So that would be a "yes" to looking for a woman to supplement your income? I seriously doubt anyone is going to pay a new grad anywhere close to $150,000, BTW.

And what about your school expenses? Are you independent, or are your parents supporting you?

[vashti]

I've noticed that the executive career minded women that I have dated like to date what a lot of people would consider "down."

Each of them has stated something to the effect of desiring a relationship in which they could relax and allow a man to take the lead for a couple evenings a week.

Frequently this turns out to be a guy is in a totally different career field (i.e. white water tour guide) and not intimidated by her mannerism. None of these women are married yet, so I am unsure if their preferences will change when they begin to consider it.

Oh, and aggressive Asian women make me roar.

~Sphinx

Hah! My sister is a high-powered professional, and she met her husband on a white water trip we took together... he was our guide! (But only on the weekends, for fun... he is a lawyer during the week.)

She went to guide school, and now she guides trips on the weekends, too.

[IndiReloaded]

So that would be a "yes" to looking for a woman to supplement your income? I seriously doubt anyone is going to pay a new grad anywhere close to $150,000, BTW.

And what about your school expenses? Are you independent, or are your parents supporting you?

Hahaha, no, new grads do not start out at 6 figures. Not that they don't THINK they're entitled to it, but that is wishful thinking syndrome. They see our generation & think we made this money straight out of undergrad (or grad or professional school) & have no idea of the time that goes into it.

This is GrkScp just talking shit again. He's a poster boy for that Gen Me book I mentioned, Vash.

New grads generally don't make that kind of money (there are, of course, rare exceptions--kids who move straight into their parents preexisting practice or business). Lawyers, physicians & others who run their own business have too much overhead in their first 3 - 5 years plus paying off their school debts. And a Bachelor's degree starts out at even less, they are lucky to find a job that pays 50 - 60 K.

But you can work up fairly quickly, that is true. But the idea that you will start at that level is generally not correct & is an overexpectation. Brokers & traders might do that in a year, but then they can easily lose that much also. I know a couple ppl who were 400K+ and lost it all in a year.

[TheSphinx]

Hah! My sister is a high-powered professional, and she met her husband on a white water trip we took together... he was our guide! (But only on the weekends, for fun... he is a lawyer during the week.)

She went to guide school, and now she guides trips on the weekends, too.

Haha, well I'm glad to see my observation was on track.

I don't think I've ever been rafting with a guide that didn't know how to cut loose and really enjoy himself, even in the middle of some serious rapids. It speaks a lot for a person who chooses that lifestyle.

~Sphinx

[IndiReloaded]

I've noticed that the executive career minded women that I have dated like to date what a lot of people would consider "down."

Its damn hard stuffing two ppl into a pair of trousers...

I've unfortunately seen a couple of marriages tank in just this past year. Both couples were both academics, with small children. At some point, something has to give.

I think more & more women are figuring out that a less 'high powered' spouse may actually have the time & inclination to give them the emotional support and relaxation they crave. Just like men have worked out the same thing generations ago.

Housewives & househusbands may become a premium commodity before too long.

[vashti]

Housewives & househusbands may become a premium commodity before too long.

I remember reading in Newsweek or Time or one of those papers that stay at home moms were considered "status symbols" these days.


Hey, Sphinx - do you do whitewater trips very often? Kayak or raft? Where do you go?

[IndiReloaded]

I remember reading in Newsweek or Time or one of those papers that stay at home moms were considered "status symbols" these days.

I didn't mean a trophy wife/husband. I meant a helpmate who genuinely believes in emotionally supporting their high-powered partner. Its very hard to do that with two ppl juggling family & two high-powered careers.

Maybe that's too old-fashioned, dunno. I'm not necessarily advocating stay at home moms or dads, but I think those in stressful, high powered jobs might do well choosing partners with more flexible occupations. Teachers & nurses seem to be good combinations, for example, based who I know anyway. Maybe its more to do with the personality of ppl in those fields tho?

[vashti]

I think those in stressful, high powered jobs might do well choosing partners with more flexible occupations. Teachers & nurses seem to be good combinations,

So, of the teachers and the nurses, which is the "high powered" job?

[IndiReloaded]

So, of the teachers and the nurses, which is the "high powered" job?

Oh, neither. I meant they are good fits for ppl who work the mental, crazy hours. Not that you can't as a teacher or nurse (and no offense to anyone who is one), but those jobs don't tend to be 6-figure jobs & don't tend to be 70-hours a week like some insane execs & professionals jobs (I know, I used to be one--it nearly destroyed my marriage).

[TheSphinx]

Hey, Sphinx - do you do whitewater trips very often? Kayak or raft? Where do you go?

I'll usually take a couple of weekends in early autumn to do the upper and lower Gauley River.

I did raft the first time, but the kayak is my suicide pod of choice.

If your sister and her husband ever want to give this river a shot, let me know and I'll pass the information along to you.

~Sphinx