why do some girls date down

[vashti]

Thanks! That's pretty far from the west coast, but I will let them know if they are heading back east..

[GrkScorp]

So that would be a "yes" to looking for a woman to supplement your income? I seriously doubt anyone is going to pay a new grad anywhere close to $150,000, BTW.

And what about your school expenses? Are you independent, or are your parents supporting you?

Not only will they start at $150k per year (at least).. that's what first year attorneys are getting paid right now..

White & Case; Sullivan & Cromwell; Cravath, Swaine & Moore; Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz; Davis Polk & Wardwell; Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates; and Shearman & Sterling.. will all suck the life-blood out of NYU, Columbia, Fordham, and Cornell graduates from the top 5%.. especially in a field like Taxation & Securities Regulation; and especially when the candidate has his CPA.. i've met almost nobody else who is specializing in Taxation and has their CPA..

And it's not just law firms.. CPA firms also want Tax Attorneys.. PWC, Ernst & Young, KPMG, and Deloitte will easily start top graduates off at $150k.. (they keep them in house, and cut their legal expenses; smart move).. in NYC, each Tax Attorney at a top firm bills over half a million each year, so he/she gives the firm more than 3 times what the firm pays him/her.. So instead of giving that up, CPA firms just keep the same quality of attorneys in house..

I don't know why you're all blown away.. in NYC, this IS NOT a lot of money.. take into consideration the cost of living.. and 18% state & local taxes.. so snap your jaws back up, because it's nothing serious to be jumping around about..

Also, if law school graduates from top schools, and top of their class wouldn't make 6 digits or more on graduation; I would just be an accountant.. by the end of those 3 years, you'd get promoted to Senior Auditor or Manager and be close or over 6 digits..

As for my education; i've taken out a loan, but my father has also co-signed the loan; and he pays it off. (if he were to simply give me the money to pay for it, there would be a gift tax "gift would exceed $24,000; MFJ; $12,000 if Single & other") Before you rush to make a comment on that; all I can say is that it's been the greatest chance of a lifetime to be able to focus on school and work without having to struggle with the financial burden of a legal education.. and because I know exactly how important this was, I want to be able to give the same gift & chance back to my own kids one day..

Now, I hope i've more than satisfied your strange interest in my affairs.. and YES, it would be great to find someone (female) who would earn at least as much as $120k during a year.. But, that's more like a bonus.. we'll see.. I have 10 more years to find someone who brings the full-package to the table..

[GrkScorp]

Hahaha, no, new grads do not start out at 6 figures.

If this were the case, nobody would be paying nearly $50,000 a year for three years.. in fact, nobody would even bother to strive to get into a top school.. or be in the top 1%, 5% of their class..

The reality is, at least for the legal sector; top firms want the top talent that top 25 schools have to offer; and in N.Y., L.A., Boston, & Chicago, that talent starts at $120,000.. depending on the specialization, it can start higher.. in Taxation & Securities Regulation (SR is obviously in demand in NY), starting actually IS $150k..

Why? Well, you can thank the 80-something% of law students who want to specialize in Constitutional law, International, Family, Divorce, Litigation, and Health law.. (litigation is no longer in demand; everyone is turning to mitigation)

What's really in demand? Patent law.. if I could, I would.. but attorneys who are really in demand for it are Engineers, Biologists, Chemists, etc.. Then you have the typical 10% of the class who is specializing in Corporate, Commercial, & Business law.. they're going to come in at just around $120k, and in 5 years of busting their butt.. maybe they'll be getting $180k, and they won't even be partner..

So, unless you're specializing in "dreamer" law (Con, Int, Family, Divorce, Litigation, Health); you can expect to come out in NYC with well over 6 figures.. (Divorce & Health law will get you that, but not at your first year, track record matters A LOT in these areas, and you start to tap into office politics; ugh.. fcuk that)

[vashti]

All students believe they are going to max out on the starting salaries when they start working. Only time will tell.

Anyway, my point is this: you are criticizing young women in your age range for not being "independent", and for counting on a male to provide the lifestyle they desire, whereas it looks as though you are in the exact same boat. You are entirely dependent (for now), and you even went so far as to state the salary you'd want your partner to earn and how you plan to spend it all. How is this any different than the women you criticize?

[Only-virgins]

Women have a low self-esteem in this culture in general. Let them date losers for what ever reasons they have, don't let it bother you though maybe you should look in the mirror and check if you are one. It all comes back to bite them in the a$$...just don't take them under your wing when they are bitching about the problems.

I think that these women just need to get it out of their systems. Nothing teaches appreciation for people who are motivated to achieve better than dating a loser.

Yea, but as a achiever I don't want to date a loser either...and a girl who dated a loser is a loser herself.

You just seem bitter.

Judging people from one or two actions is completely misguided.

Sort of like you just did?

Money & Looks won't get you women..

Hahahaha....oh that was a good one. You need to get out a bit more I think. I think this should be under the word "wrong" in the dictionary. Oh, and what is fun and entertainment is extremely relative. I think the way some of you people try to logically rationalize everything a "group" of humans does is just absolutely wrong...each person is an individual and should be treated as a separate entity to be rationalized about...this is why loveforums is a bit more of touchy subject than some car forums where you can rationalize why this car is faster than that car. You can't say all women like these people because "blank" .... some date pot heads for example simply because they fell in love with them (the chemistry thing)...this is one of hundreds of possibilities. I think social life is complex to each individual and this "they date them because" ...kind of BS is nonsense.

[GrkScorp]

Anyway, my point is this: you are criticizing young women in your age range for not being "independent", and for counting on a male to provide the lifestyle they desire, whereas it looks as though you are in the exact same boat. You are entirely dependent (for now), and you even went so far as to state the salary you'd want your partner to earn and how you plan to spend it all. How is this any different than the women you criticize?

Exact same boat?

If you're saying that because my father is generous enough and financially able to provide a jump start in my life with a legal education; I am somehow on the same boat, please reconsider..

Secondly, not that this really needs an elaborate response, but (not mysogenystically) men are simply more ambitious and cut-throat.. Look at business schools, law schools (bad example; historically largely male).. I should take a survey and get some statistics on the guys and girls I meet randomly.. i'm not saying that there are no ambitious women out there.. but most of the time, I just meet women who have zero ambition (no; looking for a sugar daddy doesn't constitute ambition).. all they have are unrealistic dreams.. which is cute when it comes to dating; but it's tragic come time for marriage..

When you put both parties at the table.. and one has 40+ years of earning to offer, and the other can't match up.. then in reality, reguardless if that person had his education paid for or not; he/she is independent, and the other person is simply dependent..

Am I entierly dependent for now? The only help my father provides is for my legal education.. aside from that, I provide for everything else.. Grow up in a Greek household, and by 18, you're out the door.. (not because your family doesn't love you, or because you don't love them.. it's because there's love between everyone that you have to leave.. think of it like a bird being nudged out of the nest so it can fly)

How is this different from my criticism? Well, the difference is that women (there are obviously exceptions) make demands on what they expect from a man in terms of financial support, but the reason is simply vague, in fact, there's no reason at all other than (he's the man, we're married, etc).. they also don't make and hard-line offers on the table.. they just expect to take.. (again, there are exceptions).. Men don't seem to mind.. for all they care, if they're able to find someone to settle with, they're willing (at the moment) to accept a marriage on those terms, and then later realize how much they compromized the financial growth of their family.. "I" on the other hand put my earning ability up on the table, and expect the same from my partner.. I don't just make a demand for the other person to earn.. I simply make a request for them to meet me half-way.. I don't want to feel like i'm the only one busting my @ss for all these years to provide for my family, only to find someone to lie around and look pretty.. or to pretend to "work & help" with some petty job (under $70k per year)..

If reading that made you feel slightly upset, just realize that I'm only requesting that someone who otherwise qualifies (looks, personality, etc) will also meet me half-way.. Now imagine how someone must feel when their partner makes a DEMAND that the other person be the provider; without making any assertions of contributing similar financial support to the family..

[miSSleepy]

ahhhh it's nice to come back to the same old same old
OP, you keep asking "what is fun" ... well, only you can answer that, for yourself only. Fun is objective, and you can't tell others what they should think is fun.
Also, since when are we back in the 1800s and beyond where women were expected to marry up for the social status and financial gain???

[vashti]

You sound a little defensive there, Grkscorp.

Actually, the number of female law students is similar to the number of male law students (49% vs 51%). Women out number men in medical school. I don't know why you seem to know so many unaccomplished women. On the west coast, underachievers and dreamers tend to be equally distributed amongst the genders.

So, you are gainfully employed to support yourself? I didn't realize... What do you do?

[GrkScorp]

You sound a little defensive there, Grkscorp.

So, you are gainfully employed to support yourself? I didn't realize... What do you do?

Oh please.. first of all, there's nothing "defensive" about what i've responded with.. I don't even care much to respond back.. but it's simply the polite thing to do.. It would just be rude to ignore you, especially someone who's your senior (social programming)..

Since the interview is still going on.. I'm a state examiner of the New York State's Controller's office.. I also have my Real-Estate license still registered under my father's office.. (I'm not actively involved with Real-Estate at all.. I spend zero minutes on it).. the occasional deal will come by means of family networking or friends; but that's not a stable source of income, so if I ever hear anything, I just get the listing and dump it on the office so some other agent can take the time to sell it, because I simply don't have the time..

Which brings me to something my father has been bugging me about lately (his 1040).. tax season is comming up, but the only two returns i'm going to prepare are my parents' and my own.. It's simply not worth it to underprice well-established independent accountants to try and earn some extra cash.. it's simply too much work..

I'm happy with what I have for now.. It's better to live a little under my means for 3 years and get out of school debt-free.. than to live at or above my means and get out of school with tons of debt.. If you're trying to make me feel like i'm missing out on something for the moment, it's not working; i'm more than satisfied with my lifestyle; both the future, and the present..

[wxyz00]

WOW... may be we should change the topic to "Introduction to GrkScorp Finances 101" ........ jk... no harm intended

[GrkScorp]

WOW... may be we should change the topic to "Introduction to GrkScorp Finances 101" ........ jk... no harm intended

No.. not at all.. in fact, I agree with you.. it really irritates me when a thread turns into a personal interview/interrogation about me or anyone else for that matter.. it just wastes time for admins & readers..

Honestly; no hostilities intended, I don't have bad feelings towards anyone on the forum.. but if you want to ask me something about my life or about me.. just PM me.. don't take up thread space on something totally unrelated to the original post.. it's just bad manners.. and disrespectful to the OP and all the readers.. (not attacking anyone or implying that Vash has bad manners; just stating this for the future)

[misombra]

No.. not at all.. in fact, I agree with you.. it really irritates me when a thread turns into a personal interview/interrogation about me or anyone else for that matter.. it just wastes time for admins & readers..

Honestly; no hostilities intended, I don't have bad feelings towards anyone on the forum.. but if you want to ask me something about my life or about me.. just PM me.. don't take up thread space on something totally unrelated to the original post.. it's just bad manners.. and disrespectful to the OP and all the readers.. (not attacking anyone or implying that Vash has bad manners; just stating this for the future)

if you're that offended, why not respond with a pm?

[GrkScorp]

if you're that offended, why not respond with a pm?

Because i'm not "that offended".. it's just irritating.. it's excessive "filler" on a topic.. it doesn't add anything related to the thread.. and it usually creates this snowball of follow-up posts..

So, if it's in fact a genuine question, I don't see why they wouldn't just PM me in the first place..

See.. lol.. this is exactly what I mean.. look at what we're doing.. we're not even talking about anything related to the topic right now..

[vashti]

This is actually on topic. We are discussing "dating down", and you are blabbing on and on about why you consider yourself to be more worthy than the average New Yorker and what kind of girl would be good enough for you, and I am trying to determine if you are as fantastic as you think. So far, I am getting this response: meh... your expectations don't sound much different to me than theirs do to you.

Many people who believe themselves to be on the upper rungs of the dating ladder and artificially inflate their own value believe that to date XYZ would be to date "down". This belief system usually surrounds income, and I think it's kind of funny that no matter how much a person makes, it is never enough.

Anyway, I suspect the problem you are having with finding suitable girls has more to do with the types you attract.

[Mathias]

This is actually on topic. We are discussing "dating down", and you are blabbing on and on about why you consider yourself to be more worthy than the average New Yorker and what kind of girl would be good enough for you, and I am trying to determine if you are as fantastic as you think. So far, I am getting this response: meh.

Many people who believe themselves to be on the upper rungs of the dating ladder artificially inflate their own value, and believe that to date XYZ would be to date "down". This belief system usually surrounds income, and I think it's kind of funny that no matter how much a person makes, it is never enough.

I make plenty of money.