why do some girls date down

[vashti]

I make plenty of money.

Yeah, but you aren't a snob.

[IndiReloaded]

Yea, but as a achiever I don't want to date a loser either...and a girl who dated a loser is a loser herself.

Even if it was 2 dates & she realized he was a loser & dumped him asap? Do you also expect your dates to read minds?

Lots of ppl come across as something they are not on first meeting, sometimes its done deliberately. Takes a little bit of working out to sort the wheat from the chaff, OV. No different for you, young man.

Which is why I think its a bad idea to sleep with someone too soon, FWIW. Three or 4 dates is NOT enough time to figure this out, as seems the norm these days.

[IndiReloaded]

Well, GS, I finally got around to your posts (sorry, but they ARE long). Anyway, I think you are being very upfront about your financial expectations from a partner. I wish you luck in finding her.

I disagree w/your comments about women in general. Vash's statistics about med & professional school enrollment are correct. Women are on the 'up' while men have largely plateaued in terms of earning potential. Which is a good thing for you, b/c it will make your quest for the 'whole package' that much easier.

I do wonder tho whether you are planning on having a family? You will find it difficult to have both of you in high-powered jobs & raising small children. Unless you plan on having a nanny or spending $$ on childcare. That is a complicated decision that has much to do with your (and your partners) definition of parenting.

Are both your parents working professionals, GS? You need not answer in detail, just curious.

[miSSleepy]

I do wonder tho whether you are planning on having a family? You will find it difficult to have both of you in high-powered jobs & raising small children. Unless you plan on having a nanny or spending $$ on childcare. That is a complicated decision that has much to do with your (and your partners) definition of parenting.

I think the fact that he wants a girl as close to physical perfection as humanly possible will be a hurdle before that one comes along.

I don't know where you live, GrkScorp or what kind of women you meet, but I know plenty of women that are more ambitious than most men. It's just that traditionally, and these days as well to an extent, it was more important for a male to be financial successful in order to attract and support a wife/family. You're talking from your own limited experience and applying it universally...as you always do.

[Only-virgins]

Even if it was 2 dates & she realized he was a loser & dumped him asap? Do you also expect your dates to read minds?

Lots of ppl come across as something they are not on first meeting, sometimes its done deliberately. Takes a little bit of working out to sort the wheat from the chaff, OV. No different for you, young man.

Which is why I think its a bad idea to sleep with someone too soon, FWIW. Three or 4 dates is NOT enough time to figure this out, as seems the norm these days.

Oh, uh....I don't think it matters if there was no sex...its like it never happened then.

[GrkScorp]

Oh, uh....I don't think it matters if there was no sex...its like it never happened then.

Exactly.. on the face-value of things.. (after you get to know the person; on a personal level, which does not take years or months, or even weeks).. and there's still an agenda in place on the other person's part.. you simply leave.. and YES, on the face-value of things.. you're "just friends".. and feed her the "let's just be friends" line and move on..

[GrkScorp]

Are both your parents working professionals, GS? You need not answer in detail, just curious.

Both work, but only my father is a serious earner..

When I was born, I was "shipped over" to Greece to live with my grandparents there until the age of 6.. that's when my parent's picked me up and brought me back to New York.. because when both people are working, it's tough..

But you know what.. that's how our culture is.. it's not uncommon to have kids and expect the grandparents to take care of them from time to time (in my case, for 6 years)..

And believe me.. I DO want a family.. and the fact that i'm working, or that both of us are working isn't going to stop me from having one if we're financially and emotionally ready for one.. (but I can't exactly trust my parents with my children; so I hope my wife has a great family).. nothing personal.. I just don't want my kids to have a dictator/totalitarian/hard-@ss upbringing.. my father is a pretty rough/strict/serious guy.. and my mom is overly-sensitive/push-over.. so it's not the environment I would like my kids to be next to in their early development years..

[GrkScorp]

I think the fact that he wants a girl as close to physical perfection as humanly possible will be a hurdle before that one comes along.

I don't know where you live, GrkScorp or what kind of women you meet, but I know plenty of women that are more ambitious than most men. It's just that traditionally, and these days as well to an extent, it was more important for a male to be financial successful in order to attract and support a wife/family. You're talking from your own limited experience and applying it universally...as you always do.

Perfection? That doesn't exist.. everyone has flaws.. I have flaws, you have flaws, everyone on this forum, country, world, universe has flaws.. and if you'd like to get philosophical about it, that's what makes us perfect, and our flaws are actually good for society to work properly..

But, as far as selecting a partner to spend the rest of your life with and start a family with; you should always aim for the best (as long as it's reasonable).. I don't ask for looks.. who I "date" and who I will "marry" are two different types of people..

For the moment, I agree with you ladies.. my view of women is largely based on the women I "date".. which are not the same type of women I would "marry".. so naturally.. things only last about 2-3 weeks or no more than a month until their lack of concern for their future & zero ambition starts to bother me.. When I feel that in an other person, I feel myself being dragged down.. it's not a good feeling..

Are there women who are ambitious; more so than most men? YES! Absolutely; and in fact, i've met one.. and I was very much attracted to her.. but she was not someone I would "date".. she was someone I would "marry".. but that point is moot, because she was already engaged.. (she was getting her master's in biochemistry and heading off to medical school after that.. her fiance' was a sound engineer; she was 21, he was 37.. she was bisexual "but really good-looking and feminine, not manly-looking or strange-looking at all".. and i'm not about to bash the guy she was with.. that's the way things were..) But they do exist; and in 8 years; she'll be making 4 times what he makes..

Now, so far, the post didn't bother me.. lol.. the only minor subtlety that got to me was "financially successful in order to attract... ...a wife/...".. Given, financial success is needed to support & raise a family.. but if my finances is something someone is ATTRACTED to.. that's a HUGE turn-off for me (and I would imagine that would be the case for most guys aswell).. She could otherwise be amazing in all other areas.. but if I sense that.. that's an instant deal-breaker.. (that's like feeling that a guy just wants to get into your pants.. how would you feel?).. given, there are times you just want casual sex.. but there's no such thing as casual marriage.. so the concept of someone being ATTRACTED to a man's finances is disturbing..

[Mathias]

Yeah, but you aren't a snob.

That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me.

[needfeedback]

There are doctors and lawyers who smoke marijuana and snort cocaine. There are Mcdonalds cashiers and cooks who don't do any drugs, there are people who are smart enough to go to college but don't or can't.

The only difficulty with dating someone from a different background would be different perspectives and interests.

[needfeedback]

Perfection? That doesn't exist.. everyone has flaws.. I have flaws, you have flaws, everyone on this forum, country, world, universe has flaws.. and if you'd like to get philosophical about it, that's what makes us perfect, and our flaws are actually good for society to work properly..

But, as far as selecting a partner to spend the rest of your life with and start a family with; you should always aim for the best (as long as it's reasonable).. I don't ask for looks.. who I "date" and who I will "marry" are two different types of people..

For the moment, I agree with you ladies.. my view of women is largely based on the women I "date".. which are not the same type of women I would "marry".. so naturally.. things only last about 2-3 weeks or no more than a month until their lack of concern for their future & zero ambition starts to bother me.. When I feel that in an other person, I feel myself being dragged down.. it's not a good feeling..

Are there women who are ambitious; more so than most men? YES! Absolutely; and in fact, i've met one.. and I was very much attracted to her.. but she was not someone I would "date".. she was someone I would "marry".. but that point is moot, because she was already engaged.. (she was getting her master's in biochemistry and heading off to medical school after that.. her fiance' was a sound engineer; she was 21, he was 37.. she was bisexual "but really good-looking and feminine, not manly-looking or strange-looking at all".. and i'm not about to bash the guy she was with.. that's the way things were..) But they do exist; and in 8 years; she'll be making 4 times what he makes..

Now, so far, the post didn't bother me.. lol.. the only minor subtlety that got to me was "financially successful in order to attract... ...a wife/...".. Given, financial success is needed to support & raise a family.. but if my finances is something someone is ATTRACTED to.. that's a HUGE turn-off for me (and I would imagine that would be the case for most guys aswell).. She could otherwise be amazing in all other areas.. but if I sense that.. that's an instant deal-breaker.. (that's like feeling that a guy just wants to get into your pants.. how would you feel?).. given, there are times you just want casual sex.. but there's no such thing as casual marriage.. so the concept of someone being ATTRACTED to a man's finances is disturbing..

but don't you "date" to find someone to "marry"? what's your definition of "dating"?

[GrkScorp]

but don't you "date" to find someone to "marry"? what's your definition of "dating"?

Dating is what you're doing when you're not really in a relationship with someone, but it goes beyond "just met/just friends/petty familiarity".. So it's beyond just meeting someone, but not yet a long-term relationship.. (not because of time!)

The amount of money & times is meaningless.. I make the same investments in dating & relationships.. the only thing that sets dating apart from relationships in terms of investment on my part is my ego-investment (emotional).. I simply don't hold any major attachments (other than sex and pictures, movies, romantic memories) but I basically don't dig my hole too deep or tie my knot too tight when i'm "dating".. I like to have the option of a quick & easy exit strategy.. In a relationship, i'm pretty tied down.. (example: My most recent relationship of 3-years, took me 1.5 months to break off!).. and not because "I" was attached.. but because the other person was so invested in me emotionally, (and I actually cared enough) so I didn't want to just break-off instantly & violently.. It was a transition.. and even though it was quite frankly the smoothest, she still has feelings lingering.. but we're still friends..

But if i'm looking for a wife.. "dating" won't last more than a week until we move into a "relationship"..

[needfeedback]

Dating is what you're doing when you're not really in a relationship with someone, but it goes beyond "just met/just friends/petty familiarity".. So it's beyond just meeting someone, but not yet a long-term relationship.. (not because of time!)

The amount of money & times is meaningless.. I make the same investments in dating & relationships.. the only thing that sets dating apart from relationships in terms of investment on my part is my ego-investment (emotional).. I simply don't hold any major attachments (other than sex and pictures, movies, romantic memories) but I basically don't dig my hole too deep or tie my knot too tight when i'm "dating".. I like to have the option of a quick & easy exit strategy.. In a relationship, i'm pretty tied down.. (example: My most recent relationship of 3-years, took me 1.5 months to break off!).. and not because "I" was attached.. but because the other person was so invested in me emotionally, (and I actually cared enough) so I didn't want to just break-off instantly & violently.. It was a transition.. and even though it was quite frankly the smoothest, she still has feelings lingering.. but we're still friends..

But if i'm looking for a wife.. "dating" won't last more than a week until we move into a "relationship"..

Meaning the "ego investment" starts right away or the physical relationship starts right away? Sorry, just trying to understand.

[Mathias]

But if i'm looking for a wife.. "dating" won't last more than a week until we move into a "relationship"..

This is bad. Going just a week of dating before committing is not the way to go in any sense, unless it just happens that way. Taking things slowly is a great way to build something before jumping into a relationship, no matter what you're looking for in the end.

[miSSleepy]

[/quote]
Now, so far, the post didn't bother me.. lol.. the only minor subtlety that got to me was "financially successful in order to attract... ...a wife/...".. Given, financial success is needed to support & raise a family.. but if my finances is something someone is ATTRACTED to.. that's a HUGE turn-off for me (and I would imagine that would be the case for most guys aswell).. [/QUOTE]

It's not that simple, and one isn't attracted to the finances per se. And it's not necessarily a matter of earning 6 figures a year. One can have a reasonable job, earn 60-80, 000 and enjoy their work and use the money very wisely. A steady income and ambition and enthusiasm and intelligence = reliable. It's not the buckets of money a woman may be attracted to, but what a man's job and finances mirror about him. If you go back to the basic theories of human nature, the man's role is to be a good father and support the offrpsing and partner, and that's a good (and was a primary) indication of whether he was capable of this.