Inner Game

[Only-virgins]

I'm going to just talk about a really oversimplified model:

Unconscious mind (Picks up on secondary information, processes it) ---> Conscious mind (Picks up on primary info, processes it, gets info from UC mind and rationalizes it as intuition/feeling/premenition/instinct/choice)

Now, 7% of all communication is based on verbal content.. the other 93% is based on (tone of voice, speech patters, speed of talking, and non-verbal communication)

Your conscious mind, picks up on just 7% of this communication and can at times get "overloaded" and not be able to process all of it.. The only thing we can make note of that's important for this discussion is that the conscious mind will take the 7% of the info it has, and the 93% of the info it gets from the UC mind, and make a "choice".. you can then see that this 93% of info plays a large role on the feelings/intuition/premenition/instinct/etc your conscious mind will make.. at it will feel as if it make a "choice"

Maybe you said "are you ready for it?".. or maybe you said "ugh! what's that smell? did you just fart?".. it doesn't really matter THAT much.. it's not about WHAT you're saying.. but HOW you say it..

Example:

- Girl walks into an elevator; she says "Mmm.. that looks good, I could really go for some pizza right now.. lunch?" (I'm already not interested; even though she's a 7.5)

- Girl walks into an elevator; she says "A little warm outside to be all dressed like that don't you think?" (Competent flirting, she caught my interest, and she was a 7!)

What happened? It must be that I don't like women who comment on my pizza, but love women who are sarcastic and comment on my lack of clothing during a cold day.. Obviously not.. It just has to do with what else is going on here..

In the first case, the girl was nervous, uncertain if she was worthy enough, that was a turn-off and unattractive.. all of that from her eyes, facial expression, and voice.. her body was frozen in place trying hard to not expose any emotion.. the UC picked it up.. and whatever she said went through that filter.. right away.. the more she talked.. the more disinterested I grew..

In the second case, the girl was lively, confident, smiled, was chearful, her voice was content & relaxed, her body was natural, her facial expressions and eyes were expressive, warm, friendly, and natural.. And they both practically said the same thing.. but totally different reactions internally in my mind..

So when you said something to her.. maybe you sounded like you were trying too hard to hold her attention.. to keep the conversation going.. maybe you conveyed pushy-ness, needy-ness.. maybe your voice showed it was nervous, as if it didn't feel worthy to be around and talking to someone like her.. maybe not enough eye contact (not staring! just confident, relaxed, warm, expressive eye contact).. your voice (expressive, rich, soothing, commanding, powerful).. or maybe you were reacting TOO much to her..

- Tragic mistake (and it's not a guy's fault).. when you feel a girl interested in you.. you get happy, and you start reacting.. maybe you smile too much, move around too much, maybe you're a little too lively and hyper, maybe you start talking faster and your voice inflection changes completely.. when that happens.. you change the entire vibe (the vibe she was comfortable feeling, and was starting to grow attracted to)

Notice if you had a different state of mind:

- You would be doing her a favor to still be there talking to her and giving her your attention (it's not cocky, for as long as you don't make it cocky.. you can still be a friendly and warm guy and radiate this message.. people will be drawn to you because you have such value to add to the interaction, but you're not cocky, instead you're friendly and warm and give them the chance/privilage to enjoy your company.. it's your gift to them, and unless they give you some reason to stay, unless they DO/SAY something that sparks your interest, they might lose that value you provide very quickly)

When it's your state of mind, obviously the verbal content changes a little, but the change you REALLY notice is in the actions you'll make, timing, voice, speech patters, and non-verbal communication.. You also won't be looking for reasons to keep her attention.. (you don't really care!).. that's not to say that you won't keep the interaction fun.. but this is YOUR world.. and she's a pawn in it.. if you don't find her interesting or fun.. YOU lose interest and excuse yourself.. not the other way around..

This State of Mind is the most powerful DHV you can have.. and remember (not cocky "unless with 10s, they go crazy for cocky", just be warm, friendly, and fun while you have this state of mind)

- Imagine that popular girl/guy in HS or College who was "too good" to hang out with your group.. You really didn't like her/him.. you rationalized it as "ugh, what a b*tch/jerk".. and rightfully so, we're not attracted to such people, because they're not good for our own ego.. But imagine if she/he came over to your group and was friendly, open, and warm towards you.. started sharing her/his value with your group.. and as you feel yourself opening up and warming up to them.. notice how you see that same person through a different light.. That's because you're convinced of their high value, but are now given the chance/privilage to enjoy it! That's powerful, and that's what's going on when you have that State of Mind..

Also notice how this ties into Frame Control! When you have this State of Mind internalized and natural.. you automatically & instinctively control the frame and never give it up.. When you study Covert Persuasion enough, you'll reach the point where you'll have ZERO resistance to getting control of the frame.. you'll actually convince people that they are having more fun when the spotlight is shining on you.. when you are the ring-master.. and naturally.. the entire group accepts you as the leader of the group.. again.. powerful..

In your case.. I think it's natural, and it's happened to all of us when we got a little nervous around someone.. we did something stupid.. or maybe we did something "normal", but in reality, unconsciously, we projected our nervousness through our delivery.. And the way to correct that is NOT through the conscious! State of Mind is NOT conscious.. it's ALL unconscious! You can't FAKE it.. you can only BE it! (for more on that.. make a thread called "Inner Game" and i'll expand on that.. if you're willing to allow yourself to be hypnotized "as much as it's possible via online-text", i'll try and help remove some universal & personal sticking points)

I know this is another thread but hey. I know I make mistakes in the most subtle ways when talking to individuals and I'm hooked on the some of the ideas Grkscorp has mentioned. This thread is devoted thus to improving ones social interaction and I with that reasoning placed it in the "development" section of the LF forum.

Maybe we can learn how to avoid some things such as
1.) Being nervous
2.) Sounding needy
3.) wrong body gestures
4.) improper eye contact


Whatever it is I have been doing wrong I want to know. Girls approach me and than they run. How can I be something I am not, that doesn't make to much sense. If the conversation is going no where what do I do? what do I say? and how do I say it?

Just maybe this thread will be helpful to all the people making threads along the lines of "I like a girl but how do I approach her, what do I do, and what and how do I say it?"

Some questions I guess.

Hey Grkscorp, is there anything I can actually say to this girl when I see her tomorrow to regain my interest and maybe get things moving? or is it over?

and I know everyone has some kind of experience or idea to add, so you better tell it and add it or burn in hell for all eternity haha.

[GrkScorp]

Hey Grkscorp, is there anything I can actually say to this girl when I see her tomorrow to regain my interest and maybe get things moving? or is it over?

I have to clean up and go to sleep to wake up early tomorrow.. but since this question of yours is time sensitive, i'll take the time to answer it..

Last Friday, I went to a lovely little cafe' with a good girl-friend of mine and my best guy friend.. The only reason? To hit on the hostess.. (9.5, cute, adorable, sweet, rich dark tan skin, long black hair, deep hypnotic puppy-dog brown eyes, and plump sensual lips.. i'll stop, but her body was 36-24-36).. I called her over and we told her we needed her opinion on something.. My friend Maria took over.. before you know it, she's shooting opinions, and all of a sudden Maria stops talking and offering resistance to the 9.5's POV.. the conversation starts to die out.. so I jump in to keep the fire going.. I stack onto "this girl basically got books on hypnosis to try and get him to stay with her.. can you believe it! I mean, honestly, do you believe in that magic stuff?".. the hostess said "no" and not too enthusiastically.. (she was starting to feel the pressure of being hit on).. that's when the food came.. as soon as it did, a switch flipped inside of me (this is your chance to push her away to convey non-needy-ness, and quite litterally I did).. "anyway.. i'll show you something later.. (she stood interested).. after we finish our food, i'm hungry.. (she said "excuse me?").. i'll show you later, our food is here! go! (I stick my hand out as if to tell her to leave) come back when we're finshed.. go! (she finally left)".. My friends then huddled around me shocked.. "dude, what the fcuk was that? If I was her, i'd throw the food in your face and then spit on you.. that was rude!" (honestly, it was.. it was pretty bad)..

But could it be fixed? (Mission Impossible IV)

- A waitress came over to our table and we started talking to her while the hostess watched, the waitress was having a great time (increasing the feelings of hate, and creating jealousy at the same time).. It was 2am and the hostess got dressed and ready to go home.. I got off of my seat, and as she was walking out the door, I stopped her.. "hey, look.. tell you're manager we're all really sorry for calling you over and talking while you're working.. (her: what? no it's ok "she was shocked, now she was re-rationalizing what happened, it was highly plausable and she bought it") Well, seriously.. I didn't mean to get you in any trouble, and I saw him walking over and looking your way.. and I was trying to get you to leave.. but you wouldn't budge.. (her: "laughs" no, it's ok "smiles-genuine")".. She left the place with really mixed emotions for that night.. (This Friday, i'm going back.. broke the ice, on neutral terms.. might as well)

Now, if that was put under control, I hope you notice how your situation will be easier to fix..

1. WARNING: You did something.. it HAPPENED, it's OVER.. the worst thing for you to do is say "sorry" for what happened (obviously, there are exceptions).. but this isn't one of them.. If you say "sorry" it means you've been thinking about it.. it also draws negative attention to it.. so, honestly, just forget it.. because honestly, it's very likely that she didn't feel it the same way you did, and she may have already forgot about it (after an exam!)

2. If you feel your actions were yelling the following message "i'm interested in you, I like you, I have feelings for you, I want your attention".. there's a quick fix! (that's right).. In your case, that quick fix is:

"Hey you! How was your exam? (Good/bad/blah blah).. Aww, that sucks../good!.. anyway.. I actually have to run, i'll see you around.."

That's it.. it takes less than one minute.. when asking about her exam and reacting to how it went, give her your attention, blur out the rest of the world.. but as soon as she says how it went.. react and realize that you have to get going.. blur her out.. your focus should shift to where you have to run off to "have a story in case she asks (where're you going?) make it a place that she can easily come join (lunch with friends, some place close by) and DON'T offer/invite her to join"..

Analysis?

- Problem: You think you did something to signal that you're a needy guy (DLV)..

- Quick Fix: You do something for her to rationalize as non-needy, non-desperate, non-attention seeking.. (DHV).. if she asks where you're going (interest on her part; but don't gauge/test for it).. when you have a story, and you tease her with the potential of fun/stimulation "lunch/party with friends for someone's birthday/acceptance/etc" and don't offer to invite her.. (she realizes that you're doing something fun.. but you didn't volunteer the info.. she had to dig for it.. and she's not invited).. again you (DHV).. then you walk away (WALK, don't run! Think about it! You couldn't stay and talk because you have to go somewhere, but you're not exactly running because you're late.. you're taking your time walking.. HUGE! She's not as important to you as your friends are, and you didn't NOT talk to her that much because of some time constraint, but rather because of choice.. her subconscious/unconscious mind will pick up on this, and her conscious mind will rationalize "wow, I guess I was wrong.. no way he likes me, he wasn't shy or nervous, he just didn't care.. he didn't even invite me! I can't believe i'm that much of an idiot to think he liked me.. I could have sworn he did.. I guess I was wrong about him".. (DHV).. (Again, learn from my most recent mistake, DON'T GO OVERBOARD with active disinterest! AD isn't being COLD/RUDE.. it's still being friendly and warm.. but just having other things you find more interesting, worth your attention and time.. like her friends or that lunch you have to go to with your friends)

- It gives her time to remove and re-rationalize those feelings of you being interested in her or "shy".. while giving you time to come here tomorrow so we can talk about Inner Game..

Best of Luck..

P.S. (Subtle Unconscious sh*t-test warning: She may start acting warmer and might actually want to keep talking to you even though you're leaving, and you might be tempted to stay.. DON'T.. it's simply inconsistent.. she'll be thinking (oh.. i thought he had to go, what happened?).. run the quick-fix.. and take your time walking away.. no matter what.. DON'T act, have someplace to actually be so your unconscious mind doesn't feel a sense of conflict as if it's lying.. you actually DO have somewhere to be.. and it will show..)

[Only-virgins]

Well, I am off to there. Be back. I'll try and bring up something fun and not sound needy. I hate being in a hurry.

[GrkScorp]

I'll try and bring up something fun and not sound needy.

Well, I hope that goes well.. just always be sure to be the first one to leave the interaction, and always leave on a high-note, not when it's drying/dying out..

It's better to have "her" thinking.. (Oh.. we were having such a great time but then he had to go).. rather than.. (Ugh.. thank g-d he left! it was getting pretty awkward/boring)..

Rule of 10: If someone tells a joke.. and it's funny.. then "it's funny".. but if someone tells 10 jokes which are funny.. then "he is funny".. Comedians use this during stand-up.. they establish to vibe in the beginning, use new material in the middle.. and finish with well-tested material which they know is funny..

Have 10 encounters with her, or 10 moments where you leave on a high-note.. and all of a sudden you're go from "that was fun, funny, interesting" to "he's fun, funny, interesting".. It takes a big man to be able to leave on a high-note and not try and push it further.. when you're on a high-note, you can only go lower! The conversation can only start to fall! So it's time to make your exit, even if just temporarily.. because she'll rationalize:

- We were having so much fun.. but now that he's gone, i'm not having as much fun.. therefore when he's around, i'm having a great time.. (let her rationalize this 10 times and you will have just succeeded in conditioning her to be more happy around you and like it when you are around)

- Notice how this is better than leaving on a low-note by trying to push the interaction further after a high-note: Ehh.. when he's around and when he's gone, it's pretty much the same.. Even worse! I actually have a better time when he's not around.. (moral of the story, don't push the interaction after a high-note, because it can only go lower.. be able to know when it's time to temporarily exit "i'll be right back.. I have to go to the bathroom, hold on I need to make a call I just remembered something.. etc")

A great way to pull away and come back is to "anchor" that "high-note" moment onto her.. (usually by sound "voice", touch "preffered", or smell "not a nasty smell, try your neck or arms, make sure they smell good and go close as the interaction is on a high-note.. she'll unconsciously register the smell and associate it with the high-note moment.. as you're leaving.. be close enough for her to smell you.. if you don't want to chance it.. ask her to tell you if she likes the cologne you're wearing.. it'll send an unconscious jolt through her mind that will bring her back up to those high-note emotions")

Notice how useful anchoring is to prevent you from making the mistake of pushing the interaction too far and falling into a low-note.. you can quickly tap into that anchor, regain some of those high-note emotions/feelings.. and then exit..

Again.. the popular HS kid.. you don't like him.. but he comes at your table and he's friendly, fun, and interesting.. he makes you feel good.. and then he's gone temporarily.. when he's gone, you notice that you're not feeling as great as you did around him and you're not having as much fun.. but then he comes back.. and all of a sudden, your mood is elevated.. but all he did was come back.. think about it!

It's sort of like pulling the plug on Christmas.. She's having such a great time around you, and so is everyone else, but you can take it all away, or keep yourself there where she can have fun.. when she picks up on this, that you control this social/emotional power over the interaction.. that you are in control of these feel-good feelings.. and she's no longer able to resist it as fact.. the chase has started..

Believe me, i'm a guy.. i've seen all of this in action.. and despite having it all work in practice, I still place Psychology under a chick-crack category.. eventually, and rather quickly.. the best way to learn is by doing..

"I hear, and I know.. I see, and I understand.. I do, and I learn"
- Negotiations Prof.

[GrkScorp]

1.) Being nervous

I'm glad you placed this first, so let's first talk about what it is and what it means to be nervous..

Simply put, nervousness is an internal conflict that exists between a person's conscious reality and unconscious reality.. this contradiction creates stress as both senses of reality clash and are found in conflict with eachother.. the result, nervousness

I like to use the lie-detection example to illustrate this.. The challenge is simple.. you can put your hand in a bag and grab either a white or black ball.. only YOU know what color you have in your hand.. Then, you are hooked up to a polygraph test and interrogated by an expert.. (NSA training).. The objective is to be able to lie through the test & interrogation..

It's impossible to consciously control the microsignals your body produces, because they are beyond conscious control.. they are all a product of the unconscious.. (hence the beauty of the polygraph test).. BUT! all you need to do is convince yourself that the ball is the opposite color "the one you have to lie about".. and thus, your unconscious reality is consistent with your conscious reality.. they are no longer in conflict, not only is there no nervousness, there are no microsignals that will give the agent away..

Now, no more examples.. How does this apply to you?

Simple.. your unconscious is very aware of your internal reality.. you meet someone you like.. and now you're consciously trying to present yourself in your best light.. (confident, quality, value, funny, interesting, fun).. that's when your conscious mind begings to question itself, unable to validate what it wants to project, it starts to consciously fake it, creative inconsistency, creating nervousness..

So, the first thing I want you to do, on this thread, on this forum.. is ask yourself some questions.. and post up the answers.. Meaningful/full/deep answers..

- We've all had embarassing moments in our life, while you're thinking through many of those times, i'm sure a couple of them stand out more than others. What are some of those times? How did they make you feel?

- We've all faced challenged in our lives, we face them every day. Some are large, others are small. What are some of the challanges that you've faced in your life? What was going through your mind as you were faced with them for the first time? How was it like to get through them? How did you feel afterwards?

- I'm sure there've been times where you've felt great about yourself. Maybe it was something you did or said, or maybe it was something that happened. Whatever it was, when you think back to those moments, what were they? How did your body feel like? How was your breathing different? What emotions were going through your head? How did it feel like to feel great about yourself for that moment?

- Every person is unique. Although we're all similar to some degree or another, we have traits, characteristics, and qualities about us that compose our own unique identity. I'm sure you can think of some of those qualities in you. Some people can write an entire book, others are more modest. As you think about all the unique qualities you have, make a list of the 5 best qualities you have that define you as a person. Take a moment to think about them and write them all down. How do they all tie in together? Can you think of moments where you've seen them in action? What were some of those moments?

- Lastly, we all want something, we all have goals. Can you think right now, about what you want? What do you want from life? What do you want from other people? What do you want from your future? 1 year from now? 5 years from now? 10 years from now? While you're thinking about that, ask yourself, what do you want from yourself? What qualities in you do you want to bring out from within? What do you want to be able to do? Before you change and improve yourself, you have to know what you want to be able to do. What is that?

[IndiReloaded]

Here OV, I was going to put this in the other thread, but read you made a new one. I did a quick curiosity search & found this:

[url]http://www.sosuave.com/articles/talktowomen.htm[/url]

I was skeptical, but at a glance, this actually seems like an interesting site.

[Only-virgins]

Here OV, I was going to put this in the other thread, but read you made a new one. I did a quick curiosity search & found this:

[url]http://www.sosuave.com/articles/talktowomen.htm[/url]

I was skeptical, but at a glance, this actually seems like an interesting site.

I disagree with this from that site Indi. Though I can see why someone would maybe think that. Some girls may freak when they feel interest from the guy and in may cause uncomfortable feelings in her.

If she feels like you are actually interested in her, she'll become MUCH more interested in YOU

[Only-virgins]

Hey. I ran into her and said "What is this? you again? I keep running into you" ....she looked at me and I asked "How was that test?" ..When she responded "It went ok but I'm not sure"...I than started to slowly take a turn down the hallway away from her saying "See you later, I have to get going"...she slowed down and stopped ...and gave me this cute smile...dude...I almost caved! so I smiled and walked away....crap!

[Only-virgins]

Simple.. your unconscious is very aware of your internal reality.. you meet someone you like.. and now you're consciously trying to present yourself in your best light.. (confident, quality, value, funny, interesting, fun).. that's when your conscious mind begings to question itself, unable to validate what it wants to project, it starts to consciously fake it, creative inconsistency, creating nervousness..

So, the first thing I want you to do, on this thread, on this forum.. is ask yourself some questions.. and post up the answers.. Meaningful/full/deep answers..

- We've all had embarassing moments in our life, while you're thinking through many of those times, i'm sure a couple of them stand out more than others. What are some of those times? How did they make you feel?

- We've all faced challenged in our lives, we face them every day. Some are large, others are small. What are some of the challanges that you've faced in your life? What was going through your mind as you were faced with them for the first time? How was it like to get through them? How did you feel afterwards?

- I'm sure there've been times where you've felt great about yourself. Maybe it was something you did or said, or maybe it was something that happened. Whatever it was, when you think back to those moments, what were they? How did your body feel like? How was your breathing different? What emotions were going through your head? How did it feel like to feel great about yourself for that moment?

- Every person is unique. Although we're all similar to some degree or another, we have traits, characteristics, and qualities about us that compose our own unique identity. I'm sure you can think of some of those qualities in you. Some people can write an entire book, others are more modest. As you think about all the unique qualities you have, make a list of the 5 best qualities you have that define you as a person. Take a moment to think about them and write them all down. How do they all tie in together? Can you think of moments where you've seen them in action? What were some of those moments?

- Lastly, we all want something, we all have goals. Can you think right now, about what you want? What do you want from life? What do you want from other people? What do you want from your future? 1 year from now? 5 years from now? 10 years from now? While you're thinking about that, ask yourself, what do you want from yourself? What qualities in you do you want to bring out from within? What do you want to be able to do? Before you change and improve yourself, you have to know what you want to be able to do. What is that?

What would be the point with all those questions to myself. Specially the ones about where I want to be in like 1 or 5 years. Am I supposed to change myself or just do something else to be a better person at conversations?

I have had a shitty love life and have not been with a woman till a few years after high school. Before that I was chicken shit, I can barely forgive myself for the opportunity I missed with a girl that I still think about. The signs she sent out were incredible and I did nothing. At one point she was even getting tears in her eyes during class and I knew it was because I didn't do anything for along time. I hate myself for it sometimes. So I don't have really strong feelings for anyone at the moment and I WANT TO MAKE SURE that when I have these feelings again that NO anxiety, nervousness, and lack of conversations skills get in the way. I can't have that happen again so I am sure you know where my interest is coming from. I find these now girls practice. I need to talk to girls. Some sex wouldn't hurt once in a while .

I think it would be hard to try and pretend for someone that they have some great qualities to offer. Anyways, I am content with my life...I wouldn't mind some affection now...as pathetic as that sounds.

[GrkScorp]

What would be the point with all those questions to myself. Specially the ones about where I want to be in like 1 or 5 years. Am I supposed to change myself or just do something else to be a better person at conversations?

The point of this is/are many things..

1. To eliminate any limiting beliefs you have towards strangers/women
2. To focus and build a strong sense of identity
3. To make your unconscious mind fully aware of a realistic picture of your internal reality, one which you want to project to others

This doesn't involve changing yourself, although you should always be improving yourself (body, learning interesting things, learning fun things, doing fun things, etc)

All this is doing, is getting you to think.. and all it will do is bring out the person inside of you which is for the moment very inhibited..

But it's a personal journey.. I can't take it for you.. it's something that's up to you.. you have to take the journey, and as you take that journey and feel those changes from within.. you have to be able to land where you want to in terms of where you want to be.. The only thing I can do, is guide you in this journey, which is why these questions are vital.. These are really the only questions we'll BOTH need to know.. from that point on.. the journey is entierly yours.. I'll only be steering you and keeping you on the road.. but it's YOU that has to be taking the inner voyage.. and as you feel your internal reality become crystal clear to you.. I want you to notice now natural & instinctive your interactions will become.. but all in due time.. for now.. back to those questions!

[GrkScorp]

Hey. I ran into her and said "What is this? you again? I keep running into you" ....she looked at me and I asked "How was that test?" ..When she responded "It went ok but I'm not sure"...I than started to slowly take a turn down the hallway away from her saying "See you later, I have to get going"...she slowed down and stopped ...and gave me this cute smile...dude...I almost caved! so I smiled and walked away....crap!

A simple "hey you!" always does the job.. "What is this? you again? I keep running into you" screams (This is obviously not how I normally speak.. and you can probably tell I took a good moment to put this sentence together.. i'm trying hard.. which means I like you.. but I hope you'll see it as confident/cute/fun/funny).. But if your mind had an exit-goal already in place, i'm sure your tone of voice was non-needy/non-try-hard..

Don't worry about almost caving.. (although you did fail a test.. she showed you interest and you almost caved.. but at least you didn't run up to her and stay there).. I'm honestly very proud of you though.. e-high-five.. you went through with the quick fix and it seems like it worked..

Analysis:

"It went ok, but i'm not sure".. (comfort, that's all this suggests).. don't confuse it with "It was ok".. or "I dunno".. seperately, those translate to (ugh, leave me alone; I can't stand it when you're around me and I have to keep talking to be polite).. but together.. it's safe to bet there's "comfort" (not the same with interest, not even close).. but comfort is good..

As for the cute smile.. can't say much about it.. Women are infamous for fake signs of interest.. Like the insecure creatures they are.. they constantly strive for attention and validation (their weakness, or your doom.. whatever you choose to make of it).. one way they do this is to feel they have you under their belt.. they may touch you, smile at you, tease you, and talk about sex the whole night.. and for any poor guy who can't read into the whole situation too well.. he'll naturally try and step things up just slightly.. (touch back, go in for a kiss, tease back, talk about sex with him and her, etc) and before you know it, she's running for the hills yelling "ugh.. I swear.. all men think about is sex.. pigs, all of you.. dogs.. sex crazed animals.. how dare you! don't talk to me again.." (but she's not really shocked.. she was expecting this.. actually waiting for it.. so it can all end and she could move along to the next desperate guy who will gas-up her ego & esteem)

So, what i'm worried about is if this smile was a fake IOI.. if it was.. let's hope the quick fix kicks in.. if it wasn't.. then the quick fix will still kick in.. and you'll be getting more IOIs..

No more theory.. take the time to answer the questions so we can get this ball rolling..

[misombra]

so you're teasing women with our feigned interest and telling ov to feign disinterest.

anyway, i could always tell if a guy liked me the very moment he opened his mouth to say something to me.

if she wasn't smiling because she likes you, she was probably amused with the whole "i'm SO not interested" thing.

but i have to agree with gskorp in that i think the person with the least interest has the most power.

[GrkScorp]

so you're teasing women with our feigned interest and telling ov to feign disinterest.

if she wasn't smiling because she likes you, she was probably amused with the whole "i'm SO not interested" thing.

First of all, not the case that she was "amused".. that implies that she rationalized OV's actions to mean he likes her (had to go? didn't dig deeper and want to talk? took his time walking away? not exactly OV looking to be around her).. I can't believe you would use such a counterproductive psychological tactic in favor of this girl and to the disfavor of OV.. (LF Bros be4 hoes)

The quick fix is instant and on the spot.. the fact that you showed no willingness to stay, no needy-ness in trying to push for a conversation, etc.. helps in the rationalization process..

This is the beauty of active disinterest, put-downs, and ignoring her and talking and being friendly with everyone else.. She can't rationalize that you like her, because doing so would be vain of her, and inconsistent with available information you're giving out.. her ego-protection mechanism kicks in, and instead of thinking "he likes me".. thinks.. "hmm.. why doesn't he like me? everyone likes me, i'll show him.."

That's when she'll start to test.. with her fake IOIs & IODs, but I think the quick fix should have done the job.. But equally as important.. always be the one to leave/exit/hang-up/have to go/etc from an interaction.. The subcommunication of that is that you lost interest first (and while to guys this doesn't work, SHE'S NOT A GUY!) for as long as she's having fun around you, and you're pulling away, taking it away.. you're conditioning her to chase..

Lew Burke's Dog Training: (Punishment/Reward system)

- If she gives you IOIs, ignore them, always be conservative and consider them fake and manipulative (initially).. eventually, when she's continued to qualify herself and has displayed at least 3 unconscious IOIs.. you can "reward" her with more attention/fun/good-feelings.. and eventually, IOIs of your own
- If she gives you IODs, be unaffected, and "punish" her.. what I mean by this is simply take away the fun/value you're providing so that she no longer feels as good.. talk to her friends, shift attention to someone/something else and be distracted.. (but don't make it a big deal, make it seem natural, as if she just did something to make you bored & uninterested)
- Set up a situation where she can qualify herself or shine in a positive light (show off for you).. then reward her with IOIs sometimes, while not being that impressed other times..

Theory: Obvious & Simple

- When she gives you IOIs that are genuine & real, she has more fun.. you're conditioning her to increase the frequency & degree of IOIs she gives you
- When she gives you IODs, she no longer feels good, but not because you're punishing her directly, but rather indirectly by taking away those good-feelings.. you are conditioning her to stop giving IODs, because doing so means she has less fun (something she can rationalize to be her OWN fault, within her direct control, and she'll stop doing it so she can continue to feel good and have more fun)
- Lastly, you condition her to WANT your IOIs as a reward via qualifying herself.. In short, you're both training her to chase you, and to look at your attention, validation, and IOIs as a reward; offering almost no resistance to them..

Reality: She has nothing to offer you.. Unless she cleans her butt with $100 bills.. for the moment, she has nothing to offer you.. the only thing she can do is sit there and look cute (boring).. In reality, the only person providing life & fun in the interaction is YOU.. So I ask, why are you chasing and seeking her attention? DON'T! Because doing so implies that the only thing you are after is her sexual favor.. When she qualifys herself to you, and you slowly & eventually (on-off) reward her with IOIs, you make your interest in her legitimate (that is to say, she can rationalize that she has DONE something to give you reason to like her for HER, and not just for sex)

The person with the power here is YOU.. Don't fall for her state of mind or get sucked into her frame.. YOU provide the fun and feel-good-feelings.. she provides nothing but company you could find anywhere else.. The only value she has, is the value you give her and make her believe you think she has.. That's a useful tool, FOR LATER! But enough with Theory.. back to State of Mind & Inner Game, no more distractions OV.. the sooner we get this over, the sooner you can have whoever you want..

[TheSphinx]

I have had a shitty love life and have not been with a woman till a few years after high school. Before that I was chicken shit, I can barely forgive myself for the opportunity I missed with a girl that I still think about. The signs she sent out were incredible and I did nothing. At one point she was even getting tears in her eyes during class and I knew it was because I didn't do anything for along time. I hate myself for it sometimes.

Some people may argue the point, OV, but I feel you are a genuinely awesome fellow.

Whether through Grk's advice or otherwise, I think once you are able to get past this and actually accept yourself as an awesome guy, you won't have much trouble meeting women.

I say this because women are especially good at picking up on someone else's energy or state of mind ("reading" people) and they most likely detect it in you if you are carrying this thought process around.

So I don't have really strong feelings for anyone at the moment and I WANT TO MAKE SURE that when I have these feelings again that NO anxiety, nervousness, and lack of conversations skills get in the way. I can't have that happen again so I am sure you know where my interest is coming from. I find these now girls practice. I need to talk to girls. Some sex wouldn't hurt once in a while .

It's excellent that you are deciding on what you want to take care of now for the future, but please don't lose sight of the fact that you will be dealing with another person.

You can sling pickup lines or "openers" as you please and even have whole conversations with random women that you meet to practice your social skills.

Hell, you might even find that a few of these women want you to come to their place after meeting you, solely to practice a more physical skill set on you.

But in my opinion, you have to reach a point that you can allow yourself to let go of the fear, embrace strong feelings for a woman and experience her on a deeper level.

I encourage you not to hold yourself back because of the past or out of fear of having some part of you rejected.

Bare in mind that a "now girl" could very well be that future one you are hoping to find. And even if things don't work out with a girl you meet now, OV, would you rather fill the space between "now" and "time I meet my ideal partner" with half-assed relationships?

I guarantee to you that the confidence you will gain from sharing yourself wholly with another and satisfying her, even with things about yourself that you may find boring or nerdy, will far outweigh the confidence that comes from a wallet full of phone numbers.

~Sphinx

[Only-virgins]

OK, I don't even know where to start. I see that girl Monday and now I don't know the next step. There is another girl now in the picture in a lobby(hehe she will be my trial number two after the look she gave me...it is time to return a bit of favor to the opposite sex for all the teasing they have done to me in the past). Anyways, I said all that because it seemed like a simple "hey you" was a boring attention getter. I rationalized in my mind that she would think that "I keep running into you" as something playful. Man, I think she saw right through it....that smile felt more like a "what the hell?" kind of mind frame for her. I really don't know. By the way, I would rate her an 7 out of 10. She for sure is the blonde girl that a lot of the men around here look at. For a few seconds when I talk to her I always think "She is talking to me!" ...gets me in trouble every time.

To everyone else, I don't know but the things he says make sense. I see it happen all the time. I used to hang out with my friend named Stan. This ugly guy had girls up to his neck ...I couldn't believe it. I at first thought that he was just a "nice guy" ..man he ignored half the girls that later were coming onto him. I still don't understand how. One girl came up to him and asked him to buy her a drink ( she was hot) ...he refused with a pretty mean expression....and I saw him with her two days later in his car! I was like...."wtf!" ...why do I get the gut feeling that if he accepted and played along with her that she wouldn't be there?

Anyways, I just realized Grscorp is right...women have nothing to offer accept sitting there and looking cute in social events...lol...why do I feel like I am always the one trying to win her over....well....I realized why...there is one flaw man....it is called COMPETITION. You are showing disinterest and you lose her? someone else walks in on your plan? after all..parties or social gatherings and have more people right? I know, she still might be thinking "why doesn't he like me when most guys do?" but if there is a better looking guy in front of her will she care?

How can you pick up on IOIs like that? what if you miss her real meaning or something?

LF bros before hoes! ...lol ....bros before hoes...that is what Stan always said.

Lots of people aren't going to like the "training" women into chasing you on here haha.

I'm taking off for a bar and dance grill club right now. Maybe I can see something I like.

Some people may argue the point, OV, but I feel you are a genuinely awesome fellow.

Whether through Grk's advice or otherwise, I think once you are able to get past this and actually accept yourself as an awesome guy, you won't have much trouble meeting women.

I say this because women are especially good at picking up on someone else's energy or state of mind ("reading" people) and they most likely detect it in you if you are carrying this thought process around.

Isn't that what he kind of is saying? To make yourself believe that you have something to offer?

Anyways, I really appreciate that you have this opinion of me. I think I am an awesome fellow too...but for some reason a unlucky awesome fellow and I am just trying to find out why. I am sure it has something to do with the way I present myself and say things because I get women approaching me first with interest once in a while.

Anyways, I don't understand what fear you are talking about when you say let go of the fear and you can share a deeper feeling with a girl. Also what kind of past is holding me back. Didn't understand that at all.