Dimension of the Mind

[Zach]

I know that during meditation one can completely cut off the 5 senses and remainly completely aware of the mind only. In this case I would have to say that its possible for a brain to be self aware without senses. Just a thought

[Tiay]

Better, interesting point you just shared.

thanks

have you ever gone into the house of somebody who has bad energy, a drug addict, or a depressed person? if they have plants in their house, you can pretty much figure the mental state of the inhabitants by looking at them.

I guess you have? It sounds creepy.

I know that during meditation one can completely cut off the 5 senses and remainly completely aware of the mind only. In this case I would have to say that its possible for a brain to be self aware without senses. Just a thought

Good point. Then again.. we can't know if they really can totally separate the senses. Seems like it wouldn't be the same as having no nervous connection. But, I don't see why a brain couldn't be self-aware without senses. But, an awareness of what would it be? We are aware of ourselves, our bodies, our existence in the world. We use our senses to ascertain those things. If your brain was suddenly isolated, wouldn't you loose some aspects of your self-awareness?

The brain contains an image/representation of your body in it. If someone pinches your arm, you're not feeling it on your arm, it's actually.. I usually imagine a little guy in your brain is looking at a map of your body and a wire from which the message came, and saying "well.. that must be on our arm".
This is why people with amputated limbs can still feel stuff on the missing limb. Without being able to maintain that body map, how would the brain cope?

[Zach]

thanks



I guess you have? It sounds creepy.



Good point. Then again.. we can't know if they really can totally separate the senses. Seems like it wouldn't be the same as having no nervous connection. But, I don't see why a brain couldn't be self-aware without senses. But, an awareness of what would it be? We are aware of ourselves, our bodies, our existence in the world. We use our senses to ascertain those things. If your brain was suddenly isolated, wouldn't you loose some aspects of your self-awareness?

The brain contains an image/representation of your body in it. If someone pinches your arm, you're not feeling it on your arm, it's actually.. I usually imagine a little guy in your brain is looking at a map of your body and a wire from which the message came, and saying "well.. that must be on our arm".
This is why people with amputated limbs can still feel stuff on the missing limb. Without being able to maintain that body map, how would the brain cope?

Well I think you would have to be right in some way because I think that the human brain is totally used to and probably completely adapted to using a body as a direct part of being now a days. Although Im sure in some other way it might be able to be aware of itself although if it were born with no senses it probably would experience a much different awareness overall than one who had all the same senses to begin with.

Strange.. although I think I have gotten off the topic a lil?

[boobaa]

Absolutely nothing. 'Foo-foo' is just my nonsense word for things that may be intellectually interesting, but aren't actually testable in a scientific sense. Fun to think about, but only in the sense of 'brain stretching' rather than actually expecting to increase our actual factual knowledge base on a subject. Sort of like discussing art, or philosophical ideas.



I think hypothesis = investigating question, boobaa. They are the same. Meaning a question that will produce facts that either adds to or detracts from the strength of a theory. OV probably thinks the same.

Discussions of the nature of consciousness are necessarily esoteric & I think everyone posting here understands this. While there is some interesting neuroscience being done, truth is noone really knows how to even ASK the questions yet, much less test hypotheses leading to answers.

If you like thinking about this subject, I would suggest the movie 'What the Bleep do We Know?'; the 'scientists' in the movie are mostly nuts (IMO) but the ideas are fascinating both of themselves & how ppl respond to thinking about them.

Hypothesis can be investigative question, but it might not. But I guess that is irrelevant right now anyway, just some nonsense of who can define things better, that have no significance to the topic...

And I don't think there is anything bad in brain-stretching. If you really mean thinking as learning to see things as they are, not just dreaming, then it can be really good experience. I call it meditation which comes down to whole life lasting session. You learn to see things as they are and accept it or change some things without any kind of illusion, it creates a whole lot of better feeling in the end and your life is fulfilled.
About the brain-stretching stage... hmm, yeah i think every teenager goes trough some point when they seem to know everything, but it depends what level are you talking about right now. For some, it last whole life, and its normal because people are different and act differently.

Oh and I have seen the movie "What the bleep do we know".. was a good introduction.

And Zach, according to science, our brain is very much not used... there are even people who doesn't have much brain or just have half of it, and they live normal life, heh. Or did you mean something else? I am sorry, I haven't looked trough the whole thread... A different awareness? Hmm, thats an interesting question. You ever wondered how blind-and deaf people feel, sence and think? And, have you also thought about an octupus, who according to the amount of separate controllable body parts, must have very complicated brain, I wonder how he senses things.

[Only-virgins]

Well I think you would have to be right in some way because I think that the human brain is totally used to and probably completely adapted to using a body as a direct part of being now a days. Although Im sure in some other way it might be able to be aware of itself although if it were born with no senses it probably would experience a much different awareness overall than one who had all the same senses to begin with.

Strange.. although I think I have gotten off the topic a lil?

People born with no senses are vegetables their entire life and barely survive. Those who are born with a lack of certain senses, depending on which ones, are mentally retarded through out their entire life and have a harder time accomplishing things compared to those who have these senses. Their IQ is dramatically lower compared to those living healthy lives.

have you ever gone into the house of somebody who has bad energy, a drug addict, or a depressed person? if they have plants in their house, you can pretty much figure the mental state of the inhabitants by looking at them.

try it for yourself. if someone has plants see if they're happy, reaching for the sky, or if they're wilted and sad. even with sunlight and water a plant will be sad if the energy of the house is sad.

Define "bad energy". My answer is no....but I can imagine how a pot head could neglect taking care of his plants and smoking around them(which is no good for plants) and making the plants look like shit. Lets not be silly, plants are not conscious but they are alive. Thanks though, I loled.

according to science, our brain is very much not used... there are even people who doesn't have much brain or just have half of it, and they live normal life, heh.

False, lies. Show me where science says this directly? Every part of a brain has a specific function. When brain matter is lost there are always consequences, you can live but there are consequences. The false rumor that says only a certain percentage of out brain is used has gone to far, but that is all it is...a bad rumor. I don't mind hearing an opinion but I don't like when people lie in the name of science.



By the way, the left brain is just as busy with the functions that it has.

[Only-virgins]

Here is an interesting story for you guys:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage[/url]

Please read some of this, it is very interesting. If you guys have the interest in how the mind works.

Phineas P. Gage (July 9?, 1823 – May 21?, 1860) was a railroad worker remembered for his incredible survival of a traumatic brain injury which destroyed one or both of his frontal lobes, and for the injury's reported effects on his personality and social functioning—effects said to be so profound that friends said he was "no longer Gage."

He was NO LONGER Gage, guess that piece of metal pipe that destroyed his frontal lobes managed to open up a portal to the other conscious dimension where he went.

[IndiReloaded]

Well, I actually know who you were, for one. Who's the grasshopper now? HMM??

I wondered, never having gotten the 'noob' comments from you. I am your little love cricket then, LW. At your disposal.

:bows:

[Mish]

Good point. Then again.. we can't know if they really can totally separate the senses. Seems like it wouldn't be the same as having no nervous connection. But, I don't see why a brain couldn't be self-aware without senses. But, an awareness of what would it be? We are aware of ourselves, our bodies, our existence in the world. We use our senses to ascertain those things. If your brain was suddenly isolated, wouldn't you loose some aspects of your self-awareness?

The brain contains an image/representation of your body in it. If someone pinches your arm, you're not feeling it on your arm, it's actually.. I usually imagine a little guy in your brain is looking at a map of your body and a wire from which the message came, and saying "well.. that must be on our arm".
This is why people with amputated limbs can still feel stuff on the missing limb. Without being able to maintain that body map, how would the brain cope?

I agree with that

I think there is more to consciousness than we think. I don't think it's simply located in one place.

[anachronistic]

I wondered, never having gotten the 'noob' comments from you. I am your little love cricket then, LW. At your disposal.

:bows:

Ohh love cricket? I like the sound of that

I recognized you right off the bat, remembering you from beforehand... oh, and by the way, your custom user title is "Returning LF Alumni" if you've forgotten.

[Tiay]

[url]http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percent.asp[/url]
the myth that we only use 10 percent of our brains has hung on so long because people like the idea that 90 percent is there, untapped, available to explain all sorts of paranormal abilities. People simply like the idea.

I agree with that

I think there is more to consciousness than we think. I don't think it's simply located in one place.

ah, duality. I don't agree with that conclusion, but hey, that's just me.

[Zach]

Yeah, I have always heard people say that we only use a small % of brain. I tend to be skeptical but I do my best to keep a open mind.

I have my own idea's about our brains but unfortunately I lack any evidence to support it. I think that instead of using only 10% of our brain we might only be using 10% of the capacity at which the brain can work. Kind of like running a nascar engine only at 10 mph although the whole engine is being used it still has much more room for improvement.

I would recommend everyone checking this video out, I found it incredibly interesting. It blows science away

This is the 1st part of the video, there are 2 more.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTIApotjNI4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTIApotjNI4[/ame]

His brain structure must be somewhat different than our own?

Boobaa,

As for not having senses and still being self aware, Im pretty sure this is possible and for the most part would end up with a less intelligent brain in the long run. A awareness of self in this physical world without senses wouldnt do the brain much good at all. Like OV said, it would probably end up being so primitive that it wouldnt seem very alive at all. Although Im curious about what sort of thoughts a brain like this would have. It wouldn't have any of the 5 senses to use so what would its dreams be like? Or rather, what kind of dreams would it have?

I guess I think theres too much more to discover to come to any serious conclusions quite yet about consciousness.

[Tiay]

zach, I saw that thing before, it's very impressive. I don't see how it "blows away" science. Science explains this guy's brain just fine- maybe not as well as we'd like, but there is no fundamental mystery there.

I believe we can get a lot more out of our brains if we trained them. I don't, however, believe that it is drastic as 90%. That doesn't make evolutionary sense. Our brains are our main assets, really, and our high energy high meat diet made it possible. It is a big liability in times of hardship. Evolution would not give us a bigger brain with more capacity than we absolutely need to survive and reproduce.

[IndiReloaded]

Yeah, I have always heard people say that we only use a small % of brain. I tend to be skeptical but I do my best to keep a open mind.

I think its more to do with 'known function' rather than it not having one.

Scientists used to say that most of our DNA was useless 'junk' until ppl started doing experiments and figuring out what its function is.

In my opinion, biology has been around so long that practically everything has a function, we just may not know what it is. New science findings in the last 20 years has almost come down to 'if you can imagine it, biology already has'. So once you come up with an idea you just go looking for the example of your imagining. I could fill pages listing examples of this type of thing.

I have my own idea's about our brains but unfortunately I lack any evidence to support it. I think that instead of using only 10% of our brain we might only be using 10% of the capacity at which the brain can work.

FWIW, I agree with this^. My personal reasons comes from observations of children. Kids today are exposed to concepts much younger than I ever was & they are just sopping it up like dessicated sponges.

Is the internet conscious? What do you think?

[Only-virgins]

Kids today are exposed to concepts much younger than I ever was & they are just sopping it up like dessicated sponges.

There are different reasons for that but I am just gonna leave it alone. College today is what high school was a while back. It used to be where a HS diploma actually meant something, today it is just a stepping stone if you want anything done.

[Tiay]

Is the internet conscious? What do you think?

mmmm no. at least I hope not! but, could it become conscious? Can man create consciousness in a programme or robot?

I think you might like some of Cory Doctorow's fiction, indi.