I'm Dishonest

[vashti]

???

Is this thread about critiquing someones writing style?

[IndiReloaded]

Ha! You already know how I feel about certain longwinded posts full of BS.

Better out than in, but flushed away as soon as possible.

[anachronistic]

???

Is this thread about critiquing someones writing style?

Well, I guess if you are going to keep straddling from the subject matter to criticize me for complimenting someone on short notice, yeah, it could be, so stop.

[vashti]

Better you should just admit you changed your mind, lilwing.

[anachronistic]

Nah, I don't really care, especially if Barney doesn't. I was just thinking about that while I was working yesterday. Like, I would normally say I'm an honest person. But that kind of action is very dishonest, in that I'm lying, and also taking advantage of another person...essentially stealing from them.

I cannot believe I'm the only one who has done this, though.

It is more typical of one to be dishonest in your situation. Like I said, you're probably underpayed anyway, and it's not really hurting anyone.

When you see it is necessary though, you should try to be honest, because it could YOU, ultimately. Indie said that you should ask for a raise; I'm sure you're considering doing so, assuming I know you well enough. I don't think you really need people slapping you on the wrist telling you right from wrong though. You're a man, and you know what they say? A man is only as good as his word.

Responsibility

Better you should just admit you changed your mind, lilwing.

Now now, you were wrong, Vashti. That's what you get for jumping on me with your assumations.

[misombra]

it sounds to me as though he is trying to be nice and help you out.

[GrkScorp]

Exactly.

She's saying, LW, would you want someone like this to manage YOUR money?

GS, lol, its a pity you are so young (23, right--that's a huge amount of management experience, lol), you would have fit in perfectly at Enron.

Consider the source guys.

Indi, again i'm flattered at all the effort you continue to take.. if only you'd put just some of that effort into researching the Sarbanes Oxley Act and internal controls before you post..

Pre-Enron, there was no Sarbanes Oxley Act in place, and statutory requirement for companies to make any assertion on their Internal Controls..

And for the longest time, Auditors would take a look at the financials without much serious investigation to the nature of the Accounting System & Internal Controls a company had in place.. Today, (post-Enron & post-Sarbanes Oxley)

So the reason cases like Enron took place was simply because "they" (not accountants; officers and managers, with lots and lots of experience) COULD do it.. They would hand the auditors the financials, with no mention of the internal controls in place to suggest and sense of accuracy or reliability, or the level of integrity the management had in the preperation and maintaining the financials accurate.. Auditors would also not be required to test internal controls to see if they were actually in place.. so in effect, they would "take their word on it"..

Now, i'm not doubting that experience is important in whatever field you're in.. but when it comes to safeguarding money.. a manager, an economist, or financier; not even a bookkeeper can even attempt or claim to do a reliable job.. they're good in matters of business or in the case of the bookkeeper, journal entries.. but when it comes to understanding the framework of money flows, appropriation of assets, accounting systems, and internal controls.. you not only "prefer" an accountant.. you NEED an accountant.. and not just an accountant, but a CPA, who's at least had some experience in auditing public companies to be able to get his/her license..

The source is someone with an M.S. in Accounting and his CPA, with a better understanding of Accounting Systems, and how to close exploits, flaws, and failures in them.. and with special attention given to Internal Controls as part of Auditing since I learned accounting post-Enron & post-Sarbanes Oxley.. It's almost a science, with multiple layers, backups in the event one control defects, backups of backups, and so on.. Most companies now spend more time on hiring great Internal Auditors to set up strong internal controls; because in the first phase of a statutory audit, when the auditors need to determine how much testing/sampling they'll need to do to provide reasonable assurance that the financials are fairly presented; the more they can rely on the internal controls, the less testing/sampling they'll have to do, because strong internal controls will act as a filter to weed out fraud/errors (testing of both controls and financials still takes place).. and this will lead to less hours billed for staff auditors, and a lower fee..

And that's why i'm laughing, and judging Fras's manager in the worst light possible.. because he's non-public, so he's not obligated to file with the SEC or get audited.. so he feels he's cutting costs by not taking the time to set up a solid accounting system and internal controls to safeguard his assets and prevent "leakage".. but the joke is on him.. clearly.. You can also see that this isn't something a bookkeeper would catch, because the journal entries will add up.. the problem exists in verification of hours.. the problem is internal controls..

People like that deserve leakage.. sneaky, cheap, and lazy..

[Junket]

it sounds to me as though he is trying to be nice and help you out.

Oh, Barney has definitely tried to help me out. Several times.

He doesn't like the boss either, so that's definitely a factor. But he knows what it's like to be in my shoes, and I appreciate every bit of help he's given me.

It's hard not to turn down "free" money. There's no tax on this pay, so it's even better.

On the other hand, I pretty much just quit that job, I was stolen by one of the electricians he had hired who while, offering the same pay (of course, taxed), but is going to teach me electric work.

I worked my first day today.

I already love it...though not the commute.

I feel like I'm in survival mode. I haven't taken a full weekend off in 2 weeks. I've been here 3 weeks.

Doesn't seem like much I know, but it's starting to wear on me. Everyday I think about all the stuff I could be doing, things I could be seeing, places I could be going. But my conscience compels me to keep working. Keep stressing. Keep worrying.

It's definitely taking it's toll on me.

[Mish]

Reputation is what others know about you. Honour is what you know about yourself.

It may be just a lousy $10/hr job & so no big deal, that's one way to think about it. Another way is: Is it really worth compromising your morals for a lousy $10/hr job? Not judging you, Fras, just another thing to think about.

I like that line Indi

Positive self image is very important

[Junket]

I truthfully didn't dwell long on all of this.

It was more of a "huh...I guess I'm not that honest, after all"

--continues to sweep--

Plus, I thought it'd make for an interesting discussion.

However, it seems nobody else is fussing up to stealing office supplies, or clocking out at 6pm when it was really 5:29pm. Or taking an extra 15 minutes for their lunch break even though they're only clocked out for 30 minutes.

Why don't I feel bad?

Because I spent 3 hours taking that aptitude test prior to going in to work rather than sleeping in until 1 because I was too hung over to get up.

Is it wrong to steal bread if I'm starving?

Hell yes.

But I wouldn't give it a second thought.

"I prefer to see in shades of grey."

[DoesntMatter]

Clearly your boss isn't very bright if he has a system in place that it is so easily manipulated, if even for just a few extra bucks

[vashti]

Are you starving, Frasbee?

[IndiReloaded]

Indi, again i'm flattered at all the effort you continue to take.. if only you'd put just some of that effort into researching the Sarbanes Oxley Act and internal controls before you post..

GS, sometimes you actually have me convinced you truly are a narcissist. Get over yourself you egomaniac, I didn't post that for your benefit.

I understand I make you insecure; perhaps you should try to learn from me rather than try to win a battle you are way outclassed for, hmm? Or send a PM to complain?

Grow up already.

[IndiReloaded]

Oh, Barney has definitely tried to help me out. Several times.

He doesn't like the boss either, so that's definitely a factor. But he knows what it's like to be in my shoes, and I appreciate every bit of help he's given me.

It's hard not to turn down "free" money. There's no tax on this pay, so it's even better.

Well, the fact you even asked means you had an issue. Anyway, its really all about accepting responsibility & risk/benefit. Are you willing to risk losing this job over something like this if you get caught billing extra hours you didn't work? If so, then its your choice.

I would also be wary of getting too schmoozy w/someone who would do this kind of thing. If shit were to hit the fan for something, your buddy may not be too inclined to save your bacon. What goes around, comes around usually.

What does Amy think about this?

[GrkScorp]

GS, sometimes you actually have me convinced you truly are a narcissist. Get over yourself you egomaniac, I didn't post that for your benefit.

I understand I make you insecure; perhaps you should try to learn from me rather than try to win a battle you are way outclassed for, hmm? Or send a PM to complain?

Grow up already.

Why not try and think of some reasons why you would start to make me feel insecure? If that's what you genuinely believe, i'm interested to find out.. You can PM me if you don't feel comfortable enough talking about it openly.. but a hallmark of the insecure is a tendancy to result to insults and personal attacks.. in an attempt to try and bring down the other person's esteem.. it must really bother you deep inside when you have no idea what you're talking about.. I would normally ignore your rants and petty drama, because i'm sure it's just everyday stress that's venting.. but you brought up the issue of Enron.. and I thought you should just know the facts so that you don't humiliate yourself when you're talking to other people who actually know what happened..

It's people that have misunderstood the Enron crisis, (and it's not their fault.. it's the media's fault.. they did a sh*tty job of explaining what happened, but then again, nothing too exciting to report on during an accounting scandal.. you don't want your viewers falling asleep).. that have taken that "accounting scandal" and cast a cloud over the accounting profession.. it wasn't caused due to accountants.. The upper management and officers simply "cooked the books".. and handed them to the auditors, and because pre-SOX the profession's attitude towards internal controls come auditing was so lax.. auditors were i'll equipped, rather, I take that back.. they had the tools to catch the mistake.. it's just that there was no statutory requirement in place to force them to investigate internal controls to the amount of detail they do today..

Personally, I could care less either way.. i'm not an auditor.. taxation is the flip side of that coin.. just trying to be a little helpful there Indi.. but.. not going to bother with that ego and attititude of yours from now on.. i'll just leave you to your wikipedia.. but don't let that stop you from venting.. before you continue to vent though, take a moment to think if it's even worth posting in that state of mind.. don't get me wrong, I don't personally mind at all.. but maybe you should just PM instead of vent via posts.. but, it's up to you I guess.. what's important is that you do whatever you feel like doing now..