Used my looks all my life now what do i do?

[fstep]

Long story short; i modeled all my life from when i was 16 to almost 25 and got a lot of girls i guess just from my looks, dated the cheerleaders in hs, the hot soro girls in college, etc. When i turned 26 i married a girl who i thought was the right one for me but we grew apart and 6 years later i am divorced.

Now i'm older (33) and i'm just not getting the kind of attention i used to get from women still get perhaps more then my friends but it seems to be only from girls i'm not interested in these days. So i guess because i kind of rode of my looks all my life i just never developed any game and i really find myself stuck now, i have no problem keeping up conversation or anything but i really can't get myself to approach women, just that initial line or even coming up at a bar and saying hello seems unbelievably difficult i guess because i just never did it before.

So i really need some help here, whats a good way to in a way break out of this shell, its like everytime i think about walking up and talking to some girl i just freeze and don't do it...

[littlewing]

Kinda late to start learning picking up girls at bars, if you still have the looks it shouldn't be too hard for you to attract women

[GrkScorp]

Long story short; i modeled all my life from when i was 16 to almost 25 and got a lot of girls i guess just from my looks, dated the cheerleaders in hs, the hot soro girls in college, etc. When i turned 26 i married a girl who i thought was the right one for me but we grew apart and 6 years later i am divorced.

Now i'm older (33) and i'm just not getting the kind of attention i used to get from women still get perhaps more then my friends but it seems to be only from girls i'm not interested in these days. So i guess because i kind of rode of my looks all my life i just never developed any game and i really find myself stuck now, i have no problem keeping up conversation or anything but i really can't get myself to approach women, just that initial line or even coming up at a bar and saying hello seems unbelievably difficult i guess because i just never did it before.

So i really need some help here, whats a good way to in a way break out of this shell, its like everytime i think about walking up and talking to some girl i just freeze and don't do it...

Your situation reminds me of my friend Ben's friend.., Savoid.., I believe he's 32.., an underwear model for major companies like Calvin Klein and Polo.., and a DJ.., that's what his life is.., modeling and being a DJ.., working out.., and listening to music.., now that he's getting older.., his body is not what it used to be.., and he's not getting the same modeling jobs.., he's losing them to younger guys with younger bodies.., his carpet of luck ran short.., and now he's living from paycheck to paycheck..

I remember going out with him a couple of times.., unlike Ben.., Savoid is actually a really nice guy.., We would walk into places.., and heads would turn.., heads that would not turn.., were secretly looking from the corner of their eye.., it's as if all women in the room stopped talking and started to eye-code eachother.., there were a couple of women who came up to him the whole night.., and those were mostly drunk.., chain-smoker.., 30+ y/o women.. But aside from that.., nobody was going up to him..

I asked him why he just didn't go up to someone and start talking.., and he said.., "I can't".., as if it required some fundamental component.., but it finally clicked.., he was intimidated.., that's right.., this Adonis of a man.., was intimidated.., and not just by 10's.., but by 8's.., 7's.., 6's.., 5's.., yup.., 4's.., 3's.., 2's.., he was terrified.., and what he was terrified most about.., was being judged.., being assessed.., for the quality of person that he was.., for what he had to offer.., he felt that he had outlived the peak of his looks.., that his life was not going anywhere.., and that he had nothing to offer any woman that he would meet.., and because he believed that.., the thought of going up to a woman to talk to her for the purpose of dating her.., was intimidating.., he felt like he was jumping into failure.., and if not in the short-run.., then in the long-run.., so this fear was holding him back..

At first I misjudged Savoid through the process of association.., Ben uses women for sex.., therefore since he was very close friends with Savoid.., I thought.., Savoid must be the same way.., totally wrong.., this guy had nothing but complete respect for women.., and because he had that level of respect for them.., he felt intimidated when he thought about going up to someone and talking to them for the first time.., he didn't want to be a fcuk-buddy.., he wanted a meaningful relationship.., and he genuinely felt that he wasn't able of offering a woman that.., that's what held him back..

So.., enough with that backround.., how we got past that:

We went on the Queens bound N & F trains a couple of times.., and somehow.., this idea just flashed in my mind.., but it was one of those things that just happened to work for him.., it was completely random however..

I saw Savoid looking at this woman sitting down.., she was asian.., about an 8.., and he looked at her.., then looked away.., pretended to be looking at the interesting map of the subway system.., that's when it hit me.., I tap his shoulder and tell him.., "ask her if we passed Parson's Blvd. yet".., he looked at me as if I just asked him to propose to her.., "are you crazy.., i'm not talking to her.., it's weird"

Me: Look.., i'm not asking you to go over there and marry her.., or telegraph some interest and imply that you want to date her.., or get her number.., e-mail.., or even her name.., i'm not even telling you to go over there and start talking.., just fcukn' go up to her.., and ask her if we passed Parson's Blvd. yet.., it's a simple question.., with a yes or no answer.., what's the big deal?
Him: Alright..

He walks up to her like he's on death row.., bashful and shy.., like he's carrying all this guilt on his shoulders because of some ill intentions he has.., and he asks her if we passed the stop yet.., she says "no".., he smiles and tells her thank you.., and then he walks back over and tells me.., "no.., we didn't pass Parson's yet"

This became our new routine.., whenever we were in the train together.., I would tell him to go up to the most attractive woman in the subway car.., and ask her if we passed Parson's yet.., the more he did it.., the less guilty his walk looked.., and the more he started to do it to everyone in the subway car.., we would hop from car to car.., and he would ask a total stranger if he passed the stop yet.., this really helped get him comfortable with just talking to new people..

Next.., was working on the only form of "game" that is useful.., "Inner Game"

Best,

GrkScorp

[GrkScorp]

Next.., was working on the only form of "game" that is useful.., "Inner Game"

The better question is.., "what is Inner game?".., well.., you have "outer game".., which is the way you look.., the way you dress.., the way you walk.., your voice.., your body language.., your facial expressions.., how clean and groomed you are.., all of that is "outer game".., AND.., also part of outer game is what you are consciously thinking about.., "what? isn't that Inner game?".., no.., it's not.., if you're consciously thinking about it.., it's outer game.., so what is Inner game?

Inner game is whatever you're not consciously thinking about.., but instead.., whatever you have internalized and everything that has been unconsciously learned.., it is your reality.., your understanding of this world.., of people.., of female psychology.., of social dynamics.., and above all else.., of yourself.., and it's argued.., that the path to personal growth.., lies within constantly trying to improve your Inner game..

The first building block of Inner Game.., is "who are you?".., it's a very important question.., who are you? Yes.., 6'2" built.., dark.., and handsome.., but "who" are you? Yes.., you're a model who makes $X a year.., but "who" are you? What are your needs and wants? What are your insecurities? What is your unique personal skill set? What are your inner qualities as a person? What is your identity? Who are you?

The second building block of Inner Game.., is "what is the meaning of life?".., people have always looked for more to this question than there really is.., in short.., the meaning of life.., is to survive and reproduce.., to pass on traits that will do the same.., that's it.., and when you understand that.., you can start to see how everything revolves around that.., how you can sit there.., and trace back everything that people do.., everything that people think.., every way that people act.., to the need to survive & reproduce.., "why don't people like mean people?".., they're not beneficial to society.., they are counterproductive and demoralize others.., lowering their full potential.., which lowers the net benefit society receives.., which lowers your chances of both survival and successful reproduction.., "how do people choose their social alliances & friends?".., based on survival value added.., "why are we more willing to be friends with Bill Gates than say a needy and desperate clingy guy?".., because it's a useful and valuable social alliance which can increase our chances of survival.., as opposed to a useless and even counterproductive social alliance which either won't help us or were we will be worse off..

The third building block of Inner Game.., is "what are people.., how do they think.., and why do they think this way?".., people are products of natural selection.., our neural networks are the result of thousands of years of evolution.., every feeling and emotion.., every thought you have.., be it conscious or unconscious.., has two purposes behind it.., to survive.., and/or to reproduce.., and your emotions.., feelings.., and thoughts act as a guide.., to steer you towards meeting those two goals.., and the mechanisms behind that are.., "needs & wants.., insecurities.., ego & self-identity".., people have a unique skill set passed down to them.., the more aware of it they are.., the more they can use it to its full potential.., which is both useful to society and to their direct survival.., they are constantly looking to validate this skill set.., their value to society.., (ego & self-identity).., similarly.., there are aspects about them or the world around them which will hinder their chances of survival or reproduction.., (insecurities).., and factors which cause them pleasure or comfort.., positive emotions put in place to motivate them towards the path of social productivity.., survival.., and reproduction.., (needs & wants)..

The fourth building block of Inner Game.., is "how do people interact? How can we account and explain sociobiology & social dynamics among humans?".., people are social creatures.., two heads are better than one.., and 7 billion heads are definitely better than one.., the old saying goes.., If two people can lift 100lbs by themselves.., together.,. they can lift 250lbs.., because of our unique skill sets and social value.., each of us is able to help society advance in our own different way.., some are farmers.., some are warriors.., some are caretakers.., some are leaders.., some simply provide entertainment and motivation.., but every healthy person has their value in society.., and human social interaction is an effort to increase one's chances of survival and reproduction.., but these needs are not always compatible.., they can run in conflict.., and they often do.., and you find situations where a woman is "jealous" of an other woman for getting the guy she liked.., (reproduction/survival).., or a woman walks into a room and is far more attractive than any other woman there.., causing other women "envy".., (reproduction).., or a man insults an other man about his inferior financial status.., causing him to be angry or sad.., demoralizing him and hindering his full potential.., (survival).., as social creatures.., we are unconsciously very aware of this.., and naturally.., we seek out others who are useful to us.., but at the same time.., won't create situations that will be counterproductive to us (negative emotions).., this is why we like "secure & confident" people.., and do not like "insecure & egotistical" people.., because even if it would benefit you to know Bill Gates.., it would actually do more damage to your chances of survival if knowing him would constantly put you down and make you feel useless and worthless or inferior to him.., so people act and interact accordingly..

The fifth and final building block of Inner Game.., is "female psychology & partner selection".., given that everything else is understood.., about people in general.., this last part of Inner game is actually the simplest to understand.., as it ties everything together.., women are people.., and like people.., are social creatures.., and have the same need to survive and reproduce.., a primal quest to motherhood.., an affinity for children.., and a drive to select an ideal partner to foster both her survival.., and her children's survival.., this accounts for why younger women who are further away from having children in their life are more interested in looks.., as opposed to older women who are closer to having children in their life and more interested in financial stability.., intelligence (notice: a factor in her children's survival).., social status and networking.., sensitivity and loyalty (notice: a beta male trait that will increase the probability that her & her children survive).., women are however on the wrong end of the reproductive chain.., they are the ones who bear children.., carry them for 9 months.., endure changes in their body as a result.., and become attached.., to ensure their survival.., given that.., it is women who have the most to lose from the birth of a child.., from pregnancy.., and there is a serious cost in place.., If a man walks into her life.., gets her pregnant.., and then leaves or fails to assure the survival of her children.., she's fcuked.., she really is.., remember.., she's hardwired through thousands of years of evolution.., way before abortion.., way before condoms.., way before any of that.., so that the "cost" to sex was very very real.., her body would change.., hindering her chances of survival in the future from attracting an other male.., or her chances of reproduction in the future.., and because this cost to sex was very very real.., evolution has put in place.., an interesting mechanism in women.., the desire to have sex.., to bear children and reproduce.., but also.., a fear of sex.., and more importantly.., of men.., if she allows the wrong male to get her pregnant.., her chances of survival and the survival of her children.., are seriously compromised..

Best,

GrkScorp

[vashti]

Quite honestly, if you are still a reasonably good looking guy, getting a woman to talk to you shouldn't be all that hard. Most of us want for men to feel comfortable when we are talking to them, so if we are remotely interested, we will do more than our share of talking. You might feel more confident about approaching and interacting with women if you develop yourself as a person separate from your looks. The qualities that women will find interesting to hear about usually surround your hobbies and your work (unless you are doing some boring job like a computer geek or accountant, etc.). If you think you are lacking in these areas, I would work on fixing that.

[GrkScorp]

it's argued.., that the path to personal growth.., lies within constantly trying to improve your Inner game..

The fifth and final building block of Inner Game.., is "female psychology & partner selection"

You have the 5 building blocks of Inner game.., that's good.., you may feel slightly better off now than you were just before reading them.., but you're not looking to be slightly better off.., you're not looking to stop at the foundation.., you want a skyscraper of understanding..

The fifth and final building block of Inner Game.., (continued)

Did you ever wonder why.., on average.., women are more socially intelligent than most men? Did you ever wonder how come they are more in touch with their feelings than most men? What this "intuition" they speak of is? Why it's there?

A large part of why that intuition is there.., has to do with partner selection.., the second part of why it's there has to do with her mode of survival.., heavily dependent on social dynamics and female-to-female frame-games.., so that she could out-alpha other females and get the alpha-male.., let's forget about the second part of that for a moment.., let's just consider partner selection..

It would definitely save a woman a ton of time if she could just go around from guy to guy and ask.., "hey.., are you the type of guy who is beneficial to my own personal survival and well-being.., as well as that of my children? Because if you are.., if you truly are.., what are we both waiting for? Let's have sex.., that's the goal isn't it?".., yeah.., and there's also a reason things don't normally happen this way.., how much "risk" do you think a woman is subjecting herself to by going around and doing this? I would wager.., a ton of risk.., nobody is making any kind of guarantee that every male will be honest and act in good faith.., she may find a man who will lie to her.., just so he can have sex.., and then leave her and her child.., or stay but fail to help either of them survive.., So this is something the woman must assess on her own.., by herself..

Through natural selection.., you end up with the women who were bad at this process.., being filtered out.., and the ones that were good at this process.., being able to select a good partner.., and raise children successfully so that those children would survive to do the same.., what you end up with.., is social intuition.., and unconscious thought process that is constantly "testing" to assess the quality of a potential male partner.., on a very basic level.., it reads something like this:

"Is a social alliance with this man beneficial for my survival and that of my children?"

Notice: social alliance does not have to be sexual.., this man can be a "friend".., and still provide her with beneficial value to both her survival and that of her children..

"Does this man have genes that I want my children to have? (survival).., Is this a man that I can have children with and I can be reasonably certain that he will significantly aid in their survival as well as my own?"

This man is all of a sudden a potential partner.., the more this man demonstrates that he has value to add to her life.., the more his potential as a partner grows.., but if this is a man that will not add to her life.., then he is rather quickly dismissed as a potential partner..

Applied Inner Game: (subcommunication)

When a man walks up to a woman.., and asks to buy her a drink.., this is what he communicates:

(I am interested in you.., you qualify as a potential partner.., and I am trying to qualify myself to you as a potential partner)

It doesn't stop there.., this is what it further communicates:

(You have met all my standards just by me looking at you and with what limited information I have from who you are.., which means that I was attracted to you based on your looks only.., or that I have low standards.., which means.., that i'm either looking for just sex.., or that i'm really not a man who will have much value to add to your life.., therefore.., either way.., you lose.., what do you say?)

Intuition kicks in.., and the following rationalization takes place:

"This is a creepy.., desperate.., needy.., clingy.., loser.., who is interested in me.., he has nothing to offer my that I want.., i'm not attracted to him.., and any action I take from this point and on.., will be with that understanding.., so do I want to go ahead and return the same message to him.., that i'm also interested in him by accepting his interest and advances.., or do I just want to find a way to reject them and slowly escape from this situation with or without hurting his feelings?"

For.., I would have to say.., for easily 80% of men out there.., this seems like some complex paradox to overcome.., some epic dilemma with no real solution..

They see a woman they find attractive.., and there's a failure to make that small mental leap to go over and start talking.., they are aware of the rationalization that awaits them.., they fear it.., they can almost accept and fully endure rejection before it's taken place.., the ones who go up and ask have already been rejected in their mind before they've even come into contact with the woman.., the ones who sit down have to live with regret.., and a constant replay in their mind of how things "could have been" different..

And that's the problem.., the irony behind it all..

There really are men out there who go around.., "hitting" on women.., looking for either just sex.., or a sense of validation from being accepted.., to these men.., the fear of rejection is very real.., they are walking into a situation with ill intentions.., burdened by the weight of their own guilt.., or a sense of doubt of the unknown..., they don't feel they're worthy.., and rejection will only act to confirm that.., and so they fear it.., they look at a woman and think.., "how am I going to go up and talk to her? what am I going to say?".., and the frame they are working with.., is:

"I am interested in this woman.., she has already been qualified as a potential partner.., and I am going over there to talk to her now.., I hope she does not reject me.., I hope she will also qualify me as a potential partner as well.., so I don't want to do anything "bad" that will cause rejection to occur"

And when you walk in with that frame of mind.., rejection has already taken place.., if it hasn't taken place.., you really are "lucky".., this is why the majority of men have coined the term "lucky".., they got "lucky".., that guy is "lucky" with women.., because these men go in with that frame of mind.., and under that frame of mind.., it's almost impossible to avoid that female rationalization of "this guy is hitting on me.., is interested in me.., is a loser.., how cute that he likes me.., I feel so special.., oh how boring now.., why won't he leave.., next".., when it does happen.., the term is actually very fitting.., because you really do have to be lucky to go in with that frame of mind and not get rejected..

So.., what frame of mind does one have?

Best,

GrkScorp

[GrkScorp]

So.., what frame of mind does one have?

The frame of mind of Savoid.., asking random women on the subway.., a simple question.., "did we pass Parson's yet?"

There is no intention.., there is no motive.., there's no interest.., and for very very attractive women.., this is unusual.., but for not so ridiculously attractive women.., it's also good.., because it's not intimidating or threatening.., they don't have to be on guard or defensive.., they can be at ease and comfortable.., and just like Savoid.., rejection will never take place.., in the weeks he spent hopping from subway car to subway car.., he NEVER met anyone who didn't tell him.., "No.., we didn't pass Parson's yet".., or "Oh.., I don't know"..

I like to think of it as small steps.., looking at how most guys fail.., and then doing the opposite of that.., most guys look at an attractive girl and think.., "that's someone I would date.., i'm going to go over and talk to her.., try and get her number.., or get her to like me.., blah blah".., and that is "wrong".., that's a mistake.., that's a cocktail for disaster.., and rejection.., and rightfully so.. (we'll explore why that is)

Instead.., I go back to the first building block of Inner Game and ask myself.., "who am I? and what am I looking for in a partner? what is important to me in a woman i'm dating? what do I want my ideal relationship to be like? what qualities must a woman have to give me that?".., and then I go out.., and just by looking around.., I realize.., I don't have the slightest clue if any woman.., a 10 or a 6.., is the kind of woman that i'd want to date.., and the only way for me to find out.., is to go up and talk to them..

When there's a woman somewhere.., and she's easy on the eyes.., the frame of mind reads something like this:

"She has yet to be disqualified by her looks alone.., but I still don't have a good feel for the kind of person she is.., so i'm going to go up and talk to her.., and hopefully get a better idea.."

That's it.., that's all it is.., not going in because her looks have blown you away.., have made you so powerfully attracted to her that you would consider her girlfriend material based on her looks alone.., but she's not ugly.., she has not been disqualified based on her looks.., and you are going to talk to her.., to determine if she will qualify (or disqualify) based on everything else..

When you go in with this frame of mind.., you are:

- Not telegraphing interest
- Are not intimidating or threatening
- Are not coming off as needy or desperate (loser, unattractive, rejected)
- Are allowing both her and her group to feel comfortable and safe

All of that.., before you even open up your mouth to say anything.., before you make a sound.., you've already eliminated all possibility of rejection based on impulse alone.., you are not a threat.., so then what are you?

Unless you establish a "reason/excuse" as to why you're there.., the default she has to refer back to is that you're some guy who is interested in her.., and came over to talk to her.., (it is fair.., no.., but life's not fair.., so deal with it).., for the longest time.., "how the hell does one get around this problem?".., and then it finally clicked..

Disqualify.., "what?".., yeah.., just disqualify yourself.., disqualify her.., because when you do that.., she can no longer rationalize.., "this guy is interested in me".., it makes no sense to do that.., he just either implied directly or indirectly that he is not interested in you.., and that he is not available.., so that deals with that little issue..

What I like to do is say.., "I'm just focused on getting done with school right now.., that's the most important thing.., that's the main priority.., just doing well.., and then work leaves almost no time for anything else.., I barely have time to go out and see anyone anymore.., this is like the first time in weeks that i'm out with everyone.., outside a classroom or office".., and if they don't get the hint.., "Just two more years though.., and then i'll have time for friends and relationships and.., myself.." (disqualifying myself)

Then.., if they're tall.., "I really like short girls.., there's something just really feminine about them.., I don't know what it is.., but I never really felt attracted to tall women".., if they're short.., "I like them tall too.., I don't think I could ever date someone short.., it would just feel wrong".., if they're blond.., I like brunettes.., if they're brunettes.., I like blonds.., whatever they are.., the implication is that I like the opposite.., and in their own mind they will rationalize.., "he likes the opposite of what I am.., therefore he must not like me" (disqualifies her).., disqualifying her could be more indirect..

Example: (Indian girl)

Her: A lot of people.., when they first look at me.., they think i'm Spanish
Me: Really? You don't look it at all
Her: Well.., I usually get guys coming up to me and telling me "hey mami"
Me: Hmm.., now that you mention it.., "if you were Latin.., you would be very attractive".., so I can see how people who think you're Spanish could constantly bother you like that

(that's right.., quite the backhanded compliment.., implying that if she was something else.., she would be attractive.., but she's not.., so therefore she's not attractive.., and what follows is..)

Her: That came out wrong.., so what do you mean.., are you saying i'm not attractive? (puts on cute-frown)
Me: No.., don't put words in my mouth.., i'm saying that if you were Latin.., you would be very attractive with the features you have.., maybe those features are also attractive for Indian women too.., I don't know..

(the point is.., most men would take the opportunity to flatter.., because they're interested.., I take the opportunity to do the opposite.., not the exact opposite of course.., don't insult.., but don't flatter.., and when she is throwing up a hoop for you to jump.., to "redeem" yourself.., don't jump it.., show her you mean what you said.., because only someone who isn't interested would do that)

Her: Well.., what do you think about me? Like.., forget i'm Indian.., how do you think I look?
Me: Look.., I don't want to say anything mean.., but I think you look fine.., how do other Indian women look like exactly?

(It's not exactly "wrong" to tell someone that they look "fine".., unless the sentence that follows it is "I don't want to say anything mean".., because that implies that she's not that attractive.., conveying your frame of mind.., that you're not under her spell.., but you're not mean or rude.., just that you're not over there because she's beautiful.., you're over there because you want to get to know her better.., and you have to do this until she gets it)

Again.., remember this.., it's not her fault.., or any woman's fault that she thinks just because you are a man.., and you're going over to talk to her.., that you are interested in her.., this is the fault of your fellow 80+% of guys.., don't blame women or give women heat for what desperate or needy loser guys are guilty of.., but it's also not her fault of thinking that about you if you go in with the wrong frame of mind.., so make sure you not only go in with the right frame of mind.., but also convey that to her.., until she gets it..

Best,

GrkScorp

[GrkScorp]

Again.., remember this.., it's not her fault.., or any woman's fault that she thinks just because you are a man.., and you're going over to talk to her.., that you are interested in her.., this is the fault of your fellow 80+% of guys.., don't blame women or give women heat for what desperate or needy loser guys are guilty of.., but it's also not her fault of thinking that about you if you go in with the wrong frame of mind.., so make sure you not only go in with the right frame of mind.., but also convey that to her.., until she gets it..

What's the point of this? It's not like going in there.., disqualifying yourself and her.., and being some guy who's just not interested in her is going to get you anywhere.., (well.., actually.. ).., but in most cases.., you're right.., it won't.., so why do we bother with all this?

Because it affords you something very very valuable.., comfort and safety.., you're not some threat.., she doesn't have to be guarded or defensive.., she can put her shield down.., and open up.., and just be herself.., and that allows you to both interact and convey who you are to eachother..

You go in.., in a non-threatening way.., and start talking.., it could be about anything.., that allows for comfort and safety.., most rejection occurs when guys come in and there is no comfort or safety.., the woman feels uncomfortable and intimidated.., and she finds the need to quickly defend herself and escape the situation (either get you to leave or find a way to leave).., so when you eliminate that.., when that is not you.., then rejection depends on the type of person you are..

The part I like about this.., is that after you are in.., there really is no chance of rejection.., you're never qualifying yourself.., it's never you trying to impress her or get her to like you.., it's just you being a fun.., funny.., interesting guy to be around.., who she just met.., and through the interaction.., is indirectly and seemingly.., "unintentionally and thoughtlessly" demonstrating his character and personality to her.., it's not like he's "trying" to do it.., so there's nothing to reject.., and when you see that she has started to not just toy with the idea of you as a potential partner.., but has grown more comfortable with the idea.., and is giving you indications of interest.., when you get enough.., and a good feel that.., "she's interested".., you can go on to start qualifying her.., (note: qualifying her in and of itself is unusual for most women.., remember.., most guys are too busy trying to impress her and win her favor.., most guys don't really know what they are looking for.., anything they can get will do.., so they have nothing to qualify.., but you do.., and you can go ahead and to it when you feel she's comfortable and interested in you.., she doesn't have to be in love with you for you to start qualifying her..)

Examples:

- I have a small dog.., but most people don't believe me when I tell them i'm actually more of a cat person.., dogs are noisy.., and so hyper.., but I guess I love my dog because it's quiet.., it's more of a cat than it is a dog.., (it's a hoop.., for her to jump.., and tell you how she feels about cats or dogs).., (her: blah blah).., really? why? You just don't seem like a dog person at all.., (her: blah blah).., well.., why don't you like cats? (her: blah blah)

- Have you ever thought about where you wanted to see yourself be in the future? Forget about dreams or goals.., if you could do anything.., or be anything.., let's say you were back in high school now.., and you could have the chance to do or be anything you wanted.., without any chance of failure.., what would it be? (her: blah blah).., interesting.., why a doctor? just because of the money or.. (her: blah blah)

- Women always talk about their feelings.., and obviously.., guys get it.., women have feelings.., but I think it's funny.., that almost every single woman I talk to (notice: ego challenge.., she'll want to be the exception).., thinks that guys don't really have feelings.., I mean.., they say that guys have feelings.., but you can sort of tell that they don't really mean it when they say it.., they think that just because guys don't talk about their feelings.., that they don't have any.. (her: blah blah).., Well.., do you think there are double standards when it comes to guys and girls? (her: blah blah).., do you think they work to favor women more.., or against guys? (her: blah blah).., Well.., let's say two people meet eachother.., at some bar.., and they like talking to eachother.., so much so that they want to see eachother again.., and they do.., and they really like eachother.., so much so.., that they start dating.., and they get so comfortable with eachother.., that they're in love.., what do you think they should do at that point? "if she doesn't catch on.., spell it out for her.., don't you think they should get married?" (her: blah blah).., but what is marriage? I mean.., just think about it.., two people.., they love eachother.., they can be with eachother.., they can have children with eachother and all that stuff.., raise a family.., grow old together.., what does marriage do? why do people see it as? (her: blah blah).., So.., it's important to feel loved.., and yes.., the guy is expected to get down on his knees.., and open up a box with some $15k+ ring.., and ask her if she wants to marry him.., implying that he loves her.., so much.., that he definitely wants to marry her.., and just wants to know if she wants to marry him.., and that's romantic.., it is.., no question about it.., and it's important.., for a woman to feel that the guy loves her so much.., but do women ever wonder.., doesn't a guy want to feel loved too? What exactly does a guy get to feel loved? To feel that this woman he's with feels so strongly about him? (her: blah blah)

Qualifying is NOT:

- Do you like dogs or cats?
- What kind of music do you listen to?
- What are you studying?
- Where do you live?
- What are some things you like?

Those questions can lead to qualifying.., but to stop there at those questions alone.., is not qualifying.., qualifying is YOU getting to explore what SHE is about.., who she is as a person.., and get a feel for the full picture.., and see if YOU like and are interested in HER for who she is.., (it also makes for a great way to keep talking and fun.., interesting.., and sometimes funny conversation)

But when you're at this point.., the one among the two of you who has the option to reject.., is YOU.., it's your call.., would you look at that.., and obviously.., you can be an insecure jerk who rejects quality girl after quality girl just to validate his ego.., or you can just let her be your friend or find some other way to let her off nicely if you're not interested in her.., just because you're not interested in her doesn't mean that she's not a person.., it doesn't mean that she doesn't have feelings.., and it doesn't give you some right to be insensitive and inconsiderate towards her feelings.. (but you obviously aren't one of those guys)

For an other overview of the whole process (see):

[url]http://www.loveforum.net/ask-female-forum/22118-am-i-fake-relationship-2.html#post336444[/url]

And if the initial approach was your only sticking point.., I think we're done.., you're good now..,

Best,

GrkScorp

[bohemiandonut]

holy goddamn, grkscp!