Turn One night stand into a Relationship?

[GrkScorp]

I almost went the law school route. I wanted to focus on criminal trial law, but the field is so insanely saturated that I just didn't feel like it.

Hahaa..

That's so true.., I genuinely feel sorry for all the people specializing in criminal law.., because more than half of them will not be practicing criminal law.., they will instead.., find that all the jobs they were aiming for are already filled up.., and they will then have to practice "loser law":

- Small-time contracts
- Accidents & Injury
- General legal services

Not that there's no money to be made in that.., but that's not what they went into law school having set as their personal goal.., they'll never be able to bill for $800 an hour.., they'll never have to work on one case for entire months.., but that's ok because they're being more than heavily compensated for it..

In a way.., it's good.., there will start to be more and more people who think like you.., and consider the saturation of a specific labor market "before" choosing to pursue it.., and eventually.., the market will return back to normal..

[Charlie Boy II]

Scorp don't you think it's a little rich getting on your high horse because the girl's being a bit calculating? I mean, given your status as self-proclaimed "101 ways for ugly guys to get girls" guru.

[GrkScorp]

What you said before that is right on the money. A lot of guys lose interest after sex because they feel like they've conquered the girl.

Guys? How many of you have lost interest in a woman you had sex with because you felt like you "conquered her"?

Charlie.., if that was supposed to be a joke.., to tease her by picking at her insecurity and fear.., of what most women think of men.., then it was very funny

[Cain]

Hahaa..

That's so true.., I genuinely feel sorry for all the people specializing in criminal law.., because more than half of them will not be practicing criminal law.., they will instead.., find that all the jobs they were aiming for are already filled up.., and they will then have to practice "loser law":

- Small-time contracts
- Accidents & Injury
- General legal services

Not that there's no money to be made in that.., but that's not what they went into law school having set as their personal goal.., they'll never be able to bill for $800 an hour.., they'll never have to work on one case for entire months.., but that's ok because they're being more than heavily compensated for it..

In a way.., it's good.., there will start to be more and more people who think like you.., and consider the saturation of a specific labor market "before" choosing to pursue it.., and eventually.., the market will return back to normal..

The law market will never lose its saturation in our lifetime.

[GrkScorp]

The law market will never lose its saturation in our lifetime.

True.., maybe not in our lifetime.., but eventually.., it will.., it has before..

There are sectors of the legal services that are under saturated..,

- Corporate Governance (note: lawyers who are also MBAs)
- Health Law (note: lawyers who are also MDs.., I sh*t you not)
- Taxation (note: lawyers who are also CPAs)
- Intellectual Property (note: lawyers with an engineering or science degree)

These are the sectors that are starting to fill up.., but again.., the barriers to entry are so high.., (especially for Health Law).., that you're not likely to see THAT many lawyers who are also.., (engineers.., scientists.., CPAs.., MBAs.., MDs).., and I know as the level of education gets better in this country.., we might just be lucky enough to see those sectors be saturated.., but again.., that's also something to expect in the distant future..

[Cain]

I'd rather just spend 6 years in school, get my CRNA, and make $175/year working 40-60 hours a week.

[lesa]

I agree, all of that does sound like extortion but that is not what my statements are.

Me and you.., Grk & lesa.., we meet up.., lesa likes my apples.., I like her oranges.., and we agree to exchange them in the course of time.. (no sexual puns please)

We have just formed a casual agreement between the two of us.., all else constant.., if we don't change anything in that agreement.., I am still expecting lesa to give me oranges in exchange for my apples.., however.., either at the time of the agreement or after the agreement.., lesa feels that she wants something more..

And your proposed speech after we have been sharing apples and oranges all this time will definitely create pressure for you. It’s not removing pressure. You are fine with the way things are now between us but now I want to add something else like pears to our non-vocal agreement. I am sure you don’t feel too good about us right now.

(note: so far.., is Grk at fault for expecting oranges in exchange for his apples even though lesa may want more? No.., that was the understanding between them)

If we have had the conversation before exchanging fruits then we both would be sure of what we wanted instead of assuming what we wanted.


[quote]Now.., instead of sitting down and negotiating a new agreement.., lesa makes a threat.., "unless you give me apples and pears.., I will no longer be willing to give you oranges in exchange for just your apples"


(In other words.., lesa is breaking the understanding we both have.., and threatening to withhold her part of our contract unless I modify the agreement between us.., there are no courts.., there is no police.., only me and lesa.., and under this situation.., this would leave me no choice but to either "forcefully & unwillingly" agree.., or to reject her threat and bilaterally withdraw from our contract.., this would be lesa exerting pressure onto me.., "forcing" me to act.., perhaps take actions that I would ordinarily not take.., just to not forgo the benefits I was already set to receive in our original agreement.., extortion)[QUOTE]

Yes, I agree it sounds like extortion. I would not threaten you to give me your apples. I would have told you my desires before exchanging any fruits…that I only have a desire to share apples and oranges, pears, peaches, grapes, cantaloupes, etc before we even show how our oranges and apples look because that is what I want. You are fine to decline and seek someone who has your oranges and she your apples. I don’t have your oranges sorry because the other fruits that I am offering come as a package and not sold separating. It is fine to sell them separating but that is not what I want. You are free to find someone who agrees on your method of sharing fruits. Are you not glad that you found that out now early in our relationship? Can you imagine all the frustration after discussing this at a much later time…I assuming I will have your other fruits one day and you assuming all I wanted was your apples? Is it better for me to have this non-verbal agreement of sharing only apples and oranges and then later verbally express my desire to have your pears and other fruits as well?

If you look at the proposed speech.., it aims at removing all pressure he might be inclined to feel.., it encourages him to make a free and honest choice.., to feel comfortable making that choice.., because it's what "he wants to do".., and not what he "feels he must do or else.."

Would you not be taken aback by my speech so late in our relationship? We have been assuming for over a year now and now I express wanting more. Do you feel pressured…almost feel manipulated, since it was my desire all along (but we never talked)?

Now you still have to decide whether you want to share other fruits just as you would have if we had spoken much sooner and not have gotten to emotionally invested. It was not my intentions to lead you on thinking it’s only apples and oranges relationship. If I did then it was wrong of me. Easily, we could have been with someone that agreed with our wants. Now, we have to reassess whether this relationship should continue because I finally know what you want and you finally know what I want.

I didn't know lesa was doing medical research. How long have you been doing that?

I’ve done basic research throughout undergrad and internships but technically have done real basic medical research for almost a year.

If medical research doesn't work out.., you should definitely.., without any doubt in my mind.., consider law school.., there are some people who are just made for it.., it's in there blood.., and you're one of those people..

Although I love research, especially medical research, I have decided to go into something else later…but very most likely still in the medical field. I do like the analytical side of law though. My bf is surrounded by several law friends and it sounds great but I do not think I can devote all of myself to it like I should…maybe I will reassess later in life because at the rate that I am going, it looks like I am making university and education a lifelong career anyways.

[lesa]

Haha! that's cold! And I think your strategy is a winner. What you said before that is right on the money. A lot of guys lose interest after sex because they feel like they've conquered the girl. Especially if that one night stand girl is sniffing around for a relationship.

It's actually really nice to see a girl in your position not playing the role of the remorseful, emotion-ridden victim.

Hehe I was thinking the same. It's both refreshing and intersting. Thanks for your perspective, questiongirl.

[lesa]

True.., maybe not in our lifetime.., but eventually.., it will.., it has before..

There are sectors of the legal services that are under saturated..,

- Corporate Governance (note: lawyers who are also MBAs)
- Health Law (note: lawyers who are also MDs.., I sh*t you not)
- Taxation (note: lawyers who are also CPAs)
- Intellectual Property (note: lawyers with an engineering or science degree)

These are the sectors that are starting to fill up.., but again.., the barriers to entry are so high.., (especially for Health Law).., that you're not likely to see THAT many lawyers who are also.., (engineers.., scientists.., CPAs.., MBAs.., MDs).., and I know as the level of education gets better in this country.., we might just be lucky enough to see those sectors be saturated.., but again.., that's also something to expect in the distant future..

Health Law or something dealing with medical law sounds like something I would do if I am able.

What is patent law or whatever it is called? My bf is interested in that but I never really got in a deep conversation about it.

[questiongirl]

Great that some people actually think my strategy is COOL!! Right now, what I know is that I'm in the game, and I didn't start right, so I'm quite aware that I needed some strategy to get things going my way.

It has nothing to do with my self esteem. His wanting or not wanting him doesn't make me change my perception about myself, because I'm defined by ME, not anyone else!! I think if the same question was asked by a man, nobody would say that he's lacking self-esteem or seeking attention. Why? Cuz it's assumed that the man should do the calculating to get the girl into his bed. But can't women do the same to get the guy into her bed? Why not? I've had a guy apologize to me when he was breaking up with me said that "he felt bad that he had sex with me but is breaking up with me." I was laughing so hard after I heard that and said:" Why? It was consesual adult sex, I enjoyed it as much as you did, grow up!" I was not being bitter, I just thought it's really stupid that he felt the need to apoligize. That's just sexism. I've never heard a girl apoligize to a guy when she's breaking up with him because she's had sex with him!! HEY, I might start doing that just to see the guy's reaction!!

[vashti]

Can someone please summarize what has been written on the last page and a half? I don't have the patience to wade through Grkscorp's posts.

[questiongirl]

Also don't give me the "booty call" crap, I can have a man as my "penis call" too!

[IndiReloaded]

What is patent law or whatever it is called? My bf is interested in that but I never really got in a deep conversation about it.

I have a cousin who is an IP attorney. Its more properly called Intellectual Property, Lesa. Basically it involves dealing with things like patents, trademarks & copyright issues. Filings, infringement, and giving advice as to how best protect your IP. Lots of hiring in the private sector, academia & government. Its a complex area, esp in biomedical science right now as regards ownership of genetic sequence & space.

Check out 'rapid DNA sequencing' and 'Celera'.

[GrkScorp]

Great that some people actually think my strategy is COOL!! Right now, what I know is that I'm in the game, and I didn't start right, so I'm quite aware that I needed some strategy to get things going my way.

It has nothing to do with my self esteem. His wanting or not wanting him doesn't make me change my perception about myself, because I'm defined by ME, not anyone else!! I think if the same question was asked by a man, nobody would say that he's lacking self-esteem or seeking attention. Why? Cuz it's assumed that the man should do the calculating to get the girl into his bed. But can't women do the same to get the guy into her bed? Why not? I've had a guy apologize to me when he was breaking up with me said that "he felt bad that he had sex with me but is breaking up with me." I was laughing so hard after I heard that and said:" Why? It was consesual adult sex, I enjoyed it as much as you did, grow up!" I was not being bitter, I just thought it's really stupid that he felt the need to apoligize. That's just sexism. I've never heard a girl apoligize to a guy when she's breaking up with him because she's had sex with him!! HEY, I might start doing that just to see the guy's reaction!!

Why do you feel that the man or the woman needs to be calculating?

Better question..

Why do you feel this strong urge to be anything but honest?

Do you enjoy the complexity of the "game"? Do you feel everyone is playing a "game"? Is this you being defensive and guarded.., or do you enjoy feeling like you've worked hard to win the guy over?

I've always found the following interesting..

"Is the lesser of two evils to have someone accept your act and the role you play.., or reject it? Would you rather be left wondering if they love the real you.., or if they would have no rejected you if they got to know the real you?"

Are there men out there who are dishonest? YEAH.. I'm one of them.., but at least i'm always honest about my dishonesty.., there are both men and women though.., which don't do it just for personal entertainment or humor.., they never come clean about it.., they use it to satisfy their own personal goals..

As a rule of thumb.., (and this is coming from someone in NYC).., most people out there.., are good-natured.., they may be guarded.., defensive.., and not open up or trust others too quickly.., but most people out there.., have good intentions.., and don't mean you harm..

It's very rare to find someone who is genuinely inconsiderate.., manipulative.., and looking to trick you.. (unless they're trying to sell you something)..

I hate to be the bearer of bad news.., but read "All The Rules".., the game-plan is the same.., and although it offers much promise.., and does seem "cool".., ask a couple of guys how well they would respond to it.., seriously..

A personal suggestion.., not just for you as a woman.., but for guys too.., don't have an offensive game.., as shown by the Celtics.., defense works better.., have a defensive game.., with a strong counter-attack!

The strategy is.., to first be defensive.., and determine if the other person is being genuine.., honest.., open.., and not playing any of their own games.. (note: remember.., the human mind is naturally conservative.., so it's very easy to view almost anything someone does or doesn't do as some kind of game.., if you find yourself in this situation.., you're probably being too defensive.., relax).., just start to open up slowly.., while seeing how the other person responds.., do they see it as an opportunity to take advantage of you and use you? do they view this as a weakness and vulnerability they can exploit? do they feel that they now have control and power over you? If the way they react clearly suggests that.., it's time to be defensive and go for a counter-attack.., but if they DON'T respond that way.., then you can go ahead and start to be more open and relaxed.., and you can expect the same from them..

The dating game.., involves two players.., both of these players are guarded.., they both want each other.., but don't want to be used.., taken advantage of.., or hurt.., so they are both defensive and guarded.., it's very hard for both of them to open up and trust each other..

You'll find.., that the simplest solutions are often the best ones.., you would not believe how much analysis has gone into this powerful piece of advice.., it might seem simplistic.., but it works..

"Just be yourself"

You've heard it before.., and quickly dismissed it.., but when you don't have thoughts lingering in your mind.., when you're not thinking.., "if I do this.., he just did that.., what does that mean.., what should I do next.., what should I say.., i'm not going to say that or else he might think.., he's probably thinking.., etc".., then you're just being yourself.., and you're also behaving in a normal way.., that's easy to read.., easy to understand.., and more importantly.., easy to feel a connection to.., you let the other person feel safe.., "this person is being congruent.., genuine.., honest.., this is who they really are".., at first they may have their doubts.., it's difficult for most people to believe that they've met someone who is just being themselves.., genuine and honest.., but when they finally realize it.., their defenses fall down.., they no longer have a reason to be guarded anymore..

When they know that this is the real you.., that you are genuine.,. this is who you really are.., then they can believe the person they are getting to know.., when they determine that you are a good-natured person.., who has no intention of harming them.., or tricking them.., or manipulating them.., they'll believe it.., because they already know that this is really you.., not some act.., they can feel safe enough to trust you.., and when that happens.., they can feel safe enough to just be themselves around you..

(This strategy.., saves you both a lot of time.., money.., and frustration)

What about if you are opening up.., but still feel that they have yet to open up? You have to ask yourself.., "why has this person yet to open up?"..., it could be trust issues.., "an ex cheated on them or hurt them.., and it's harder for them to trust someone new.., general distrust for the opposite sex.., divorced parents or worse.., arguments between the parents when he/she was a child".., you have to find out.., but if it's because.., "they're being incongruent.., fake.., not genuine.., dishonest.., calculating.., manipulative.., struggling for control.., looking for power or to dominate you.., or trying to trick you or use you".., then quickly bring your gates down.., break all rapport with them (I don't care how they look.., who they are.., or what they are doing with their life).., and counter-attack "damage control and exit"

(It's fun to beat people at their own game.., give yourself a pat on the back.., but eventually.., and rather quickly.., you'll get bored of the minimal thrill it provides.., if you need to feel smart or confirm your wits.., get a Sudoku puzzle instead.., it's pointless to out-smart a game-player.., because you don't want to be in a relationship with someone like that anyway.., so as soon as you see this kind of behavior from them.., cut them off.., and exit)

Again.., just my suggestion.., i'm a big fan of counter-game.., you only turn game on when the other person is playing games.., but if the other person is being themselves.., there's no reason for you to be playing games.., turn it off.., and just enjoy what you've always wanted! To meet someone who is just being themselves.., and who you can be yourself around!

Best,

GrkScorp

[GrkScorp]

I agree, all of that does sound like extortion but that is not what my statements are.

lesa.., I know what you mean and what you're trying to say.., don't worry..

You are fine with the way things are now between us but now I want to add something else like pears to our non-vocal agreement. I am sure you don’t feel too good about us right now.

Look.., in terms of agreements.., benefits and duties of each party involved.., if we agreed on you getting to enjoy my apples.., and me having to give you apples.., and me getting to enjoy your oranges and you having to give me oranges.., then that's what we agreed on.., either explicitly.., or implied..

(Implied contracts take place every day btw: You look at a pack of gum.., look at the $1 price.., show it to the store manager.., give him $1.., and walk outside.., you just executed an implied contract)

This has nothing to do with the law.., just the nature of agreements.., and it's great that we're on the same page as far as being logical and not letting emotions and feelings get the best of us.., I like that about you lesa..

So.., the only thing I agreed to offer were apples.., maybe I didn't want to offer you grapes.., or anything else.., and the only thing you offered were oranges.., maybe I wasn't interested in anything else you had to offer..

All of a sudden.., if you expect me to modify this agreement.., maybe you feel that i'm not too thrilled about having to offer grapes.., and that i'm not interested in your salad.., so instead of negotiating on modifying the contract.., like to civilized people.., you choose to impose (not that you ever would) your interests onto me.., by threatening to break our agreement "unless I agree to your needs & terms".., that would be unfair.. (and I know.., that's not what you're implying.., but just throwing it out there for an interesting discussion)

If we have had the conversation before exchanging fruits then we both would be sure of what we wanted instead of assuming what we wanted.

I think all this talk about food as an example is going to have me thinking of something sexual every time i'm eating..



Yes.., I agree with you.., and not just me.., but believe it or not.., most guys would appreciate that..

Yes, I agree it sounds like extortion. I would not threaten you to give me your apples. I would have told you my desires before exchanging any fruits…that I only have a desire to share apples and oranges, pears, peaches, grapes, cantaloupes, etc before we even show how our oranges and apples look because that is what I want. You are fine to decline and seek someone who has your oranges and she your apples. I don’t have your oranges sorry because the other fruits that I am offering come as a package and not sold separating. It is fine to sell them separating but that is not what I want. You are free to find someone who agrees on your method of sharing fruits. Are you not glad that you found that out now early in our relationship? Can you imagine all the frustration after discussing this at a much later time…I assuming I will have your other fruits one day and you assuming all I wanted was your apples? Is it better for me to have this non-verbal agreement of sharing only apples and oranges and then later verbally express my desire to have your pears and other fruits as well?

Exactly.., believe me.., not that there's anything wrong with your oranges.., but i'd prefer the whole package