Free Will An Illusion? (No Eco)

[NeoSeminole]

Let's imagine we can rewind time. Suppose that 10 min. ago you made the conscious decision to raise your arm. If we went backwards to that exact point in time when you made the decision to raise your arm, do you believe you would make the same choice again given that every condition leading up to that moment is exactly the same? Yes or no? Also explain why.

[Only-virgins]

You would always raise your arm exactly the same way assuming you didn't keep any memories while going back to that moment. If you raised your arm different you never raised it the other way and in reality you where gonna raise that arm that way anyway.

[Lipp]

I think there's a difference between acts of reason and somewhat random acts. So yes, I think that I would raise the hand if I did it for a reason (hailing a cab, grabbing a teacup from the top shelf e.t.c) but not if I did it just for the hell of it. Can't tell why I would raise my hand for no reason though

Or something.

[Only-virgins]

I think there's a difference between acts of reason and somewhat random acts. So yes, I think that I would raise the hand if I did it for a reason (hailing a cab, grabbing a teacup from the top shelf e.t.c) but not if I did it just for the hell of it. Can't tell why I would raise my hand for no reason though

Or something.

I have never heard of any act done for no reason....EVER.

[Lipp]

Yep, so essentially we always do things for a reason (more or less), and the reason stays the same if the conditions and our mindset is the same. Or?

[excowho]

Let's imagine we can rewind time. Suppose that 10 min. ago you made the conscious decision to raise your arm. If we went backwards to that exact point in time when you made the decision to raise your arm, do you believe you would make the same choice again given that every condition leading up to that moment is exactly the same? Yes or no? Also explain why.

[All opinion that is mine:]
Yes, if every condition is the same up to that point, then so is the condition of you deciding to make a choice, and you would be the same person so the result of the choice in those specific circumstances would be the same.

But that means nothing about our free will.
I believe we have complete free will.
As we can at any point end our own lives, how much more free will is there?

[Gribble]

[All opinion that is mine:]
I believe we have complete free will.
As we can at any point end our own lives, how much more free will is there?

When a person decides to end his or her own life is it really that person's decision or is it a result of mental illness, chemical imbalances, negative stimuli, etc.?

I'm not sure that's a good proof for free will.

[Lipp]

When a person decides to end his or her own life is it really that person's decision or is it a result of mental illness, chemical imbalances, negative stimuli, etc.?

I'm not sure that's a good proof for free will.

A person's decision remains, its just altered by "mental illness, chemical imbalances, negative stimuli, etc.", I don't see how the two are exclusive to one another.

[IndiReloaded]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrodingers_cat[/url]

[Gribble]

A person's decision remains, its just altered by "mental illness, chemical imbalances, negative stimuli, etc.", I don't see how the two are exclusive to one another.

Does it? Or do we all have a breaking point? A point at which there is too much interference. When a man finally takes that hop off the ledge did he really have a choice? Sure, you can say there are plenty of men who back down. But did they really have a choice?

It takes something powerful to overwrite the instinctive will to live. People call suicide a cowardly act but that's a load of bull. Once something has stripped a man of that most primal instinct is he really calling the shots anymore? And if that instinct hasn't been fully suppressed can a man really decide to take his own life?

[doppelgaenger]

Does it? Or do we all have a breaking point? A point at which there is too much interference. When a man finally takes that hop off the ledge did he really have a choice? Sure, you can say there are plenty of men who back down. But did they really have a choice?

It takes something powerful to overwrite the instinctive will to live. People call suicide a cowardly act but that's a load of bull. Once something has stripped a man of that most primal instinct is he really calling the shots anymore? And if that instinct hasn't been fully suppressed can a man really decide to take his own life?

I agree somewhat.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku[/url]

[NeoSeminole]

excowho says:

"Yes, if every condition is the same up to that point, then so is the condition of you deciding to make a choice, and you would be the same person so the result of the choice in those specific circumstances would be the same.

But that means nothing about our free will. I believe we have complete free will. As we can at any point end our own lives, how much more free will is there?"

so you are saying you do believe you would make the same choice again? If this is true, then how is free will possible if the same set of conditions always lead to the same outcome? You have no choice but to follow a specific path.

[excowho]

excowho says:

"Yes, if every condition is the same up to that point, then so is the condition of you deciding to make a choice, and you would be the same person so the result of the choice in those specific circumstances would be the same.

But that means nothing about our free will. I believe we have complete free will. As we can at any point end our own lives, how much more free will is there?"

so you are saying you do believe you would make the same choice again? If this is true, then how is free will possible if the same set of conditions always lead to the same outcome? You have no choice but to follow a specific path.

Well if you're going back in time, then the conditions are a known variable that can no longer be changed.
However if thinking about the future the conditions are yet to be set and can be effected by every decision, through free will, you make.

I can't argue whether or not predetermined fate is how our lives are lived, and I can't argue that free will exists. As there is no solid proof for either, sort of like religion and science.
However I feel in my life that I have full control over it, and I feel like I control my decisions, so if it is predetermined, I don't notice it.

As for the killing yourself statement, I wasn't specifically regarding to suicidal people, I was referring to everyone. I wasn't saying "Ya! lets go do it!", I was just saying that it wouldn't be hard if we truly wanted, even though it goes against all fundamentals of life.

On a more serious note, I love radiohead, and am currently listening to "High and Dry".

[Gribble]

, I was just saying that it wouldn't be hard if we truly wanted, even though it goes against all fundamentals of life.

That's what I don't agree with. I think it's incredibly hard, even if you're dead set on it.

[boobaa]

At that exact moment I would raise my hand, yes. If I don't remember going back in time, there should be no reason not to, unless the going back in time action influenced some other actions that affected my will.