Feelings for a recently separated friend ...

[jaybird365]

About ten or so years a go, a female friend and I met and worked together. We worked closely and connected on a very emotional level. At the time she was just getting married and I had been married for some time. We appeared to care quite a bit about each as friends and being in committed relationships anything beyond a friendship wouldn't be in the works. Back in the day, I did start to have feelings for her and felt at the time that the best I could do in the friendship was to simply love and care for her as a friend.

Fast forward, ten years later we met at a company reunion and have traded emails a few times and recently she told me that she had separated. I myself have been separated for five years. I haven't seen her in some five years or so prior to the reunion until I had coffee with her a few months ago. I sense she is having a very tough time with the separation that she had initiated. She was not happy in her marriage and missed the "sparkle". I think she may be unsure about her decision, kids are involved, and it is difficult to give advice as I have not been part of her life for sometime and don't know the circumstances. Like anyone that has gone through marriage failure it can be difficult to open up.

Here is were it gets interesting for me.

I still care about her very much and feel I still do love her as a friend. I hate what she is going through and would very much want to be there as a friend, but I also realize that I still have romantic feelings for her, so I want to be cautious.

I can't quite decide if I want to simply commit to be a loving and close friend that will be there to support her, or take the path to develop a romantic relationship with her. The more I think of her, the more I think I am falling in love with her ... again.

Give that she is only recently separated, I feel I must not interfere with the process she is going through and must put her feelings ahead of any selfish desires I may have. After all she and her husband could reconcile.

I think she suspects how I feel about her, but we have never talked about the subject. I want to be upfront with her about my feelings but don't know how to communicate this and don't want to lose her as a friend either.

What should I do ?
JB

[vashti]

I think given her marital status, it would be inappropriate of you to express your feelings in any manner at all. In fact, I think you should avoid all contact until she makes a decision. There are little people's LIVES in this equation, and it would be utterly, terribly wrong for you to interfere.

[Lite]

Why don't you just offer to bring black condoms so you'll be properly dressed to help her mourn the death of her marriage?

Seriously? Dude, they're separated. It'd be different if they had filed for divorce already, but you're talking about wanting to date someone before then? Let her decide what she needs to do, then let her mourn, then laugh as she finds someone else who jumped in just before you did and has a rebound relationship with them.

WTF? What is it with people not being willing to give other people the proper and necessary space to mourn and heal? Are you so desperate to have a relationship with her that you're willing to deny her this that you yourself KNOW is a necessary part of the divorce process?

You've already answered your own damn question, but you come here in a passive-aggressive manner hoping we'll tell you that your first and right instinct was the incorrect one?

Seriously this whole I'm falling in love with her again bit sounds creepy and possessive. She's emotionally vulnerable. So you can be the honest and proper person, give her space, and be honest with her about what you feel and what you feel she needs by TALKING to her, or you can wedge yourself into a divorce that isn't even filed yet hoping that you don't screw her up worse emotionally in the process.

Here's a tip. Take whatever it was you felt when your marriage died, then the divorce, then everything else, think about how long it took you to heal from that, and give her at least THAT long before trying to stick your cock in her.

[Indignant]

Why don't you just offer to bring black condoms so you'll be properly dressed to help her mourn the death of her marriage?

Seriously? Dude, they're separated. It'd be different if they had filed for divorce already, but you're talking about wanting to date someone before then? Let her decide what she needs to do, then let her mourn, then laugh as she finds someone else who jumped in just before you did and has a rebound relationship with them.

WTF? What is it with people not being willing to give other people the proper and necessary space to mourn and heal? Are you so desperate to have a relationship with her that you're willing to deny her this that you yourself KNOW is a necessary part of the divorce process?

You've already answered your own damn question, but you come here in a passive-aggressive manner hoping we'll tell you that your first and right instinct was the incorrect one?

Seriously this whole I'm falling in love with her again bit sounds creepy and possessive. She's emotionally vulnerable. So you can be the honest and proper person, give her space, and be honest with her about what you feel and what you feel she needs by TALKING to her, or you can wedge yourself into a divorce that isn't even filed yet hoping that you don't screw her up worse emotionally in the process.

Here's a tip. Take whatever it was you felt when your marriage died, then the divorce, then everything else, think about how long it took you to heal from that, and give her at least THAT long before trying to stick your cock in her.

With so much anger and sarcasm you should be taking tranquilizers and not giving advice to innocent here in search for help. Have you even been in that situation on any side of the fence?

[Lite]

With so much anger and sarcasm you should be taking tranquilizers and not giving advice to innocent here in search for help. Have you even been in that situation on any side of the fence?

First of all, even he stated what the right course of action is. Secondly yes. I've been in his situation. I've been divorced, I've been involved in a relationship while divorcing, I've dated someone while they were divorcing. It's covered in my writeup about me, and includes some of the history of what I've dealt with.

I know better, and so does the submitter. They stated as much up front, then asked for advice.

When approaching divorce, one needs to make that decision for their own sake, not because they want to be in a relationship with someone else. It needs to be because they need out of their marriage for basically the sake of their own sanity and integrity as a human.

And, what happens to the submitter if she changes her mind, has regret, etc? Why would you actively make a decision to put yourself in a position to cause a person more emotional harm?

Getting divorced is pretty much like having your terminally ill spouse die. Even if you hate them and want nothing more but for them to go away, it's a drawn out process that requires healing, mourning, support, and care for oneself. If you get involved with someone who is separated, they'll get this "grass is greener" syndrome which is mostly a chemical process in your body related to, "Oooh! Someone new, and they get me, and they're not sick of putting up with my issues yet!" and skew their decision making process.

Now, let's start with the basics here. She's separated. Which means they're in pseudo divorce mode. No paperwork has been filed, and no real division of assets has legally occurred. Now, at this point they may still reconcile, and honestly that may be the best thing that they can do. It could also be the worst thing. But they haven't really approached that precipice yet, and as submitter stated, she may be having second thoughts. Which is also normal. Now, take a person with their own agenda, and not necessarily the woman's needs and desires, at heart and use them as a wedge to further open the wound in the marriage. It aggravates things, can complicate divorce proceedings, and generally opens up the entire thing to be made as absolutely painful as possible by the other spouse in the divorce due to fears, concerns, accusations of cheating and having been wronged.

There's a huge extremely complicated process in divorce, and outside parties applying pressure (Which often comes in the guise of support) to force a decision one way or the other is generally a bad thing. The only time it isn't, is in cases of abuse, which hasn't been stated, so I will assume it isn't there.

The short, non sarcastic advice? Tell her your feelings, set strict boundaries you will not cross until divorce papers are at least filed, and just be a friend who helps rather than coerces. If you cannot do that, then politely excuse yourself from the situation and do what's right.

While there are occasionally exceptions to the rule, everyone wants to actually BE the exception to the rule. Rather than doing what's right for themselves, and for other people logically.

[Indignant]

First of all, even he stated what the right course of action is. Secondly yes. I've been in his situation. I've been divorced, I've been involved in a relationship while divorcing, I've dated someone while they were divorcing. It's covered in my writeup about me, and includes some of the history of what I've dealt with.

I know better, and so does the submitter. They stated as much up front, then asked for advice.

I guess this explains why you are divorced. What about details? Are they of any importance at all? Do even know why she is getting a divorce? What if she was abused and DOES need support from another human being male of female? Do we just let her live with her own misery or lend her a helping hand? Some men are mature enough to love a woman and help her through a divorce without jumping into her pants, I am sorry if you are not one of them.

[Lite]

Thank you for the kind words and aspersions about my character.

Truth be told, I love marriage, and I love that people get married. I think that marriage is an amazing devotion of love, respect, and honor towards another person. Something that I feel most people these days do not truly understand and appreciate until they've been through it.

Let's start with the basics. I was married to a woman who didn't care what I wanted in life. She wanted things exactly her way, or there would be no peace. I asked for counseling, she wouldn't go. I fell in love w/ someone else, asked for counseling again, was denied. Asked for counseling a 3rd time, nope she wouldn't go, nothing was wrong according to her. At this point we were married 2 years, and she had slept w/ me a total of 5 times including our wedding night and honeymoon.

I went elsewhere, I made the poor choice to have an affair. I did, I filed for divorce and was very generous in what I gave up. The affair ended badly, and including the abortion of our child (Not my choice, or desire.), and I damn near killed myself from all the emotional pain. In the meantime I lost my job, my life savings, and the house from the marriage wouldn't sell for 2 years...

The person I was having an affair with also ended her marriage, a very abusive one at that. She was very cruel to me when she left, because of her own issues involving being wrapped up in trying to heal from her abuse.

I do not think ill of my ex wife. She's now remarried, (as far as I know happily so) and has a child. And I wish her the best of luck and love in her life going forward. I merely do not want to have contact with her.

I'm not anti marriage, I'm not anti divorce. I AM anti getting into the middle of a separation that has yet to yield a divorce or a reconciliation. I'm not into assuming abuse when there may not be any.

I make no excuse for my own behaviors in the past, I was emotionally weak, hurting, and lacked an important point of reference that was clouding my judgement. I made poor choices.

So, that's why I'm divorced.

3 years later I am marrying the woman I had the affair with. Next week in fact. She has apologized for what she did to me, but for my own sake I had forgiven her years ago. We're both in a much better place now emotionally, and mentally. (Hooray for therapy!) I still periodically have to deal with landmines left from her former spouse that abused her. A turn of phrase, a misunderstood action, poorly communicated intent or assumption of that intent.

I'm no saint, but I certainly work very hard to do right by people at this point in my life. Even the ones I dislike. I may not get ahead of people by not stepping on necks, but at least I don't have the guilt from stepping on necks of others.

She isn't divorcing yet, she's separated. If he stepped in now, he could very well be responsible for causing a divorce. Not everyone is happily married, and not everyone will be. But most people seem to lack the fundamental ability to effectively communicate their needs in a forthright manner. Not to mention that you cannot expect someone to show you that they love you in the manner that you want them to. They will show it to you it in the manner that they are capable of. For some people that ends up being jewelery, for others a walk in the park after a snowfall holding hands. Or, you know, those annoying pet names people come up with.

Hopefully this sheds a bit more light on my point of reference. I believe that the submitter KNOWS what the right course of action is, he just wants an excuse to do otherwise via advice from others.

I know about reconciliation, I know about marriage, I know about the divorce process and grieving. I've helped several friends through it, both male and female.

[vashti]

Meh, I agree with you, Lite. I sometimes think Indignant is only here to stir the pot. I would take most of what she says with a grain of salt.

[Indignant]

Meh, I agree with you, Lite. I sometimes think Indignant is only here to stir the pot. I would take most of what she says with a grain of salt.

I feel like you live in a fantasy world sometimes. Everything to you is either white or black. Life is full of little things that each individual has a right to without being judged by others. You just agreed with a person who created himself an excuse for cheating on his wife (i'd like to hear her story as will before making Lite into this wonderful creature who was wronged by her).

[Gigabitch]

I still care about her very much and feel I still do love her as a friend. I hate what she is going through and would very much want to be there as a friend, but I also realize that I still have romantic feelings for her, so I want to be cautious.

To clarify: you are NOT friends.

.............


No, you're not. Back off. You're only going to confuse her when she's in a really volatile place in her life- she doesn't need that.

[Lite]

I feel like you live in a fantasy world sometimes. Everything to you is either white or black. Life is full of little things that each individual has a right to without being judged by others. You just agreed with a person who created himself an excuse for cheating on his wife (i'd like to hear her story as will before making Lite into this wonderful creature who was wronged by her).

Love isn't black and white, and being judged by others or yourself, is just something that happens. Regardless of they say anything or not. Your description of being judged, is apparently when someone disagrees with you. Do judgements also not happen when someone supports you?

I'm not a saint, I did my own things in the relationship that I shouldn't have. I was passive-aggressive, I overreacted to some things, and honestly I don't really care if you support or believe me to be some angelic creature or not. I do not believe I did right by my ex wife, but I also do not feel that she did right by me. It's not a black and white issue, most people do things to contribute to the success, or failure, of a relationship. Why do you think I spent a few years in therapy working on my life and my personal demons, and suggested that he allow this woman to do that herself?

Mostly you seem adamant on judging me to be a negative person, and it appears that you may have a habit of assuming negative things about men. Such as the woman might have been abused. Rather than take a neutral stance about why the relationship was failing, you suggested otherwise.

For all we know, the marriage is failing because of her. I just believe that a couple, especially a married couple, should have a chance to work things out before letting another person inject outside energy to influence the outcome. I do not believe in the essence of black and white decisions. I do believe that they must be made periodically, but issues are always far more complicated than we tend to portray them as.

However people who have been down the path, and have taken time to look at their decision making process, and that of others, and recognize patterns and behavior models, quite often can predict the outcome of what is going on. Which is why we tend to jump to absolutes.

We jump ahead of the problem and start pointing out the faulted logic, as that is exactly what it is, being used in an attempt to get the person to step back and work on a real point of perspective. In my experience just about everyone who goes through the divorce process has some form of depression at least temporarily. And, that's a lot of internally directed angry energy to have bottled up. It's basically, anger without the enthusiasm. And depression is one of the single biggest things to cloud your perspective.

What that person needs now, is a friend. Not a lover, not a warm body next to them. A friend. He already stated that he knows he shouldn't pursue this, which you keep ignoring, beyond friendship and that he's confused if that's indeed what he should do. He wants other people to excuse (Judge positively) his desire to pursue her romantically.

When I was cheating, it wasn't a black or white thing. I wasn't doing it to hurt my spouse. I wasn't doing it because I was angry at her. It was because I was hurting, and she wouldn't help or support me. I was the one talking to a Dr about anxiety attacks and other issues in my life. I regret that I hurt her, and I still feel bad about it to this day, and have apologized many times over. If I hadn't been depressed, and had a clear point of perspective, I would have asked for counseling sooner.

When I went to the therapist after the panic attacks started? The first thing she said to me was, "I think this divorce is a very good thing for you." My then father-in-law's response to the news, "I really can't blame you for divorcing my daughter."

I'm not an angel, I'm not a saint, I'm not a demon. I'm human, I made mistakes, I've worked every day since to be a better person. If I can offer advice to people that helps them gain the perspective that they need, great. If they choose not to listen to me, that's fine too. What they choose to do with their life doesn't really affect me.

Man, I could go on and on. Like how my ex wife made my best friend (someone my parents treat as a son) feel unwelcome in our home when his father died. How she couldn't understand why I'd spend $80 on a flag for his father's coffin. Or why I'd open our home to his family to grieve after the funeral.

Feel free to throw more stones though, I really honestly don't care what you think. (Well, of me as a person anyway.)

[Indignant]

I wasn't talking to you Lite.

[Lite]

I wasn't talking to you Lite.

No, but you did reference me. Fair game and all that.

[Gigabitch]

Okay, back on-topic:

Jaybird, having gone through a divorce three years ago, I can tell you from the woman's perspective that it's confusing, terrifying and no place for some "friend" guy who doesn't even know what he wants to do. Yes, she needs support. She needs it from girlfriends, not from someone who thinks he might, at some future point, want to be with her.

For your own self, at least try to avoid being the Rebound Clown.

[Lite]

Yes, she needs support. She needs it from girlfriends, not from someone who thinks he might, at some future point, want to be with her.

Agreed, and any guy she'd likely need support from would probably need to be more of a fatherly figure than a romantic interest.