Money in relationship

[Mish]

men generally have better jobs and get paid more than women around the world. why should men expect anything in return for the date?

That's like saying, white people generally have better jobs and get paid more than black people around the world. Why should white people expect anything in return when they interact with black people? They should just give their money and be happy.

[Nikki-Anne]

Because you never want to stiff, the right girl.

[IndiReloaded]

Why should white people expect anything in return when they interact with black people? They should just give their money and be happy.

All I can say is that if Barack Obama, Tiger Woods, or Serena Williams & I go for lunch, they'd better be picking up the tab.

[Lite]

All I can say is that if Barack Obama, Tiger Woods, or Serena Williams & I go for lunch, they'd better be picking up the tab.

Serena would probably get mad at the waiter and HULK SMASH. Woman looks like more of a man than I do.

[Mish]

All I can say is that if Barack Obama, Tiger Woods, or Serena Williams & I go for lunch, they'd better be picking up the tab.

No no no. Indi, you should pick up the tab because statistically your race group is better off than their race group. That makes you as an individual responsible for their tabs. It makes sense following eco's logic

[ecojeanne]

mish you ignored my other points that i mentioned and why are they 'expecting' something in return for paying for the date...that is my main issue not whether they are responsible for paying (its a choice of the individual at the end of the day). if they pay then stop expecting women to put out. stop leering at women, make womens clothes cheaper or at least the same price as mens with the same quality and give them higher paying jobs then we will have an equal footing when it comes to paying for dates. i also said coz some men are such expecting assholes it's best for women to pay 50/50 and women lose out more than men financially and thats my point mish and why the hell are men complaining that they expect or deserve something. men have it much easier than women and it's irritating.

the OP gets 'nothing' in return and it seems to be a common thought amongst men. now not only do women get screwed financially but they get screwed after a date coz they should give back to the guy who could afford to pay for a frikin dinner, yeah sounds fair

[Only-virgins]

People, it is just a 6 dollar sandwich. Just pay for it, holy crap!

[Lite]

People, it is just a 6 dollar sandwich. Just pay for it, holy crap!

No way man, take her to Subway and it's only $5 for a foot long. Oh, and she'd have to give me a candy bar too.

[IndiReloaded]

now not only do women get screwed financially but they get screwed after a date coz they should give back to the guy who could afford to pay for a frikin dinner, yeah sounds fair

Eco, you aren't putting the responsibility where it belongs in these situations.

Obligation in these situation is a decision. If a woman *decides* to feel obligated for a dinner and repays a guy by sleeping with him, that's her choice. A stupid one, and perhaps a learned behaviour from her upbringing, but hey, life is full of these kinds of lessons.

We get these offers all the time to go away for weekends, you know the ones? Been on a couple even. Nice getaways. But we don't feel obligated to buy into their timeshare or property just b/c they footed the bill for our holiday. That's their hope, but its up to them to convince us they have a good product.

Dating is a bit different, as I said. Reciprocity or splitting is polite to offer, esp if one thinks its likely not going to go anywhere, but the concept is somewhat similar. Which ever person requests the date must take this view, somewhat, I think. And since men & women are more equal financially these days, I don't think obligation is so much an issue anymore, if it ever was.

[lastwish]

I think its traditional for guys to pay for the first date. Maybe 20 years from now, it would be different? If a guy is looking for excuses (like..this is the 21th century, etc, etc) to get out of paying for the first date then he must be REALLY cheap. But I think the girl would be cheap if she lets the guy pay for her after the first date (unless he insists on paying). I personally would even treat him back for the second date if he treated me for the first one (that is, if I want to see him again).

Btw, I agree that from an economic perspective, if two people work and each CAN afford to pay for their portion of the date then there are no reason why the men would pay for the women. But the social expectation for the man to pay(at least for the first date), to act like a gentlemen, to be the pursuer, to be the first one to ask for the date, etc is still there. For many people, its just romantic. But to be fair, I think we are in the transitional stage where women are starting to be the aggressive ones and be the pursuer, to pay for dates, etc because they might think it shows she is a modern women, etc. However, my advice for men is if you don't know the women very well, its safer to offer to pay for the first date because if you got a more traditional women you are doom if you don't offer. Whereas, if the women is more modern in the dating arena, she would stop you and offer to pay for herself. I definately do not think that you would offend a modern women if you offer to pay (I mean, you're the one who is dishing out the cash and you're just following traditional rules, right?). But if she does get offended then...beware, she is a psycho.

[lesa]

Bah, It is just stupid money. I find it more challenging to deal with women period.

That's how I see it too. It's just money. I've saved and wasted it. As long as I am living comfortably I don't care or worry about money. If he is living well, I don't want a man who worries too much about money.

I'm like OV. I find it more challenging (but maybe in a different way) to deal with men. I like men not money. I may like the $1 meal man more than the $100 meal man. As long as he is successful in whatever he does I'm fine with him. I can't date a bum though.

Money can't buy everything sparkster.

[Mish]

also said coz some men are such expecting assholes it's best for women to pay 50/50 and women lose out more than men financially and thats my point mish and why the hell are men complaining that they expect or deserve something. men have it much easier than women and it's irritating.

the OP gets 'nothing' in return and it seems to be a common thought amongst men. now not only do women get screwed financially but they get screwed after a date coz they should give back to the guy who could afford to pay for a frikin dinner, yeah sounds fair

Some men are expectation freaks, but not all of them. I don't think a guy is entitled to anything after a dinner regardless if he pays or not. This will depend more on the connection and the flow of the interaction of the couple.

What I have a problem with in your post is you saying that men have it much easier than women and therefore women as a group are entitled to more. I think it's simply not true, every gender has different obstacles to overcome each being no more difficult or easier than the other's and there is no automatic entitlement based on a gender. I don't mind paying for my dates and if I really enjoy their company I really insist on paying for them. But if there is an obligation for me to do it, that's when I get cheesed off. I don't believe anyone is automatically entitled to someone else picking up their tab for them (at least as far as dating goes).

[ecojeanne]

What I have a problem with in your post is you saying that men have it much easier than women and therefore women as a group are entitled to more

no i don't think women are entitled to more but are entitled to an equal footing and as many agree women do have it tougher and on average still have a lower wage due to circumstances boyond our control. and for some men to then complain about getting nothing on top of that is something i don't like (as per the OP's point and my response accordingly) considering all the points as to why we have it tougher:

1) lower paid (as lite also pointed out)
2) less opportunity for promotion coz of being a liability due to pregnancy and looking after the kids when ill (usually women as lite pointed out)
3) womens clothes of same quality usually cost more
4) upkeep and preparation costs more for women (a choice i know but men like a woman who makes an effort right?...men have to make less effort or maybe women are just more understanding)
5) women are weaker in strength and therefore have to be more careful and be on alert from unwanted advances...this also plays in with my point of some men starting to think that they should get something back from offering to pay
6) women also get leered at and feels more sinister so dressing up sometimes becomes more complicated so as to not get that unwanted attention

its tougher being a woman, and myself being one feels it. but i will still pay half even if he gets paid more which is likely, coz it's the best option to protect myself

[sheri]

A man I was dating from Oct till just before Xmas blew me off the whole xmas / new year season and was not man enough to be upfront with me to tell me he was broke and couldn't afford me anymore. He had me guessing for the whole xmas season wondering what was going on in our relationship. Asking myself many questions.... Finally I asked him to tell me and that is what he stated. I said that during the xmas season, he could have spent time me my family I could have spent time with his family... It is spending time with each other. Well, we are no longer seeing each other.... On to the next!

[Only-virgins]

If a woman *decides* to feel obligated for a dinner and repays a guy by sleeping with him, that's her choice.

All this time I have been trying to sell myself and make myself a better person so I can make a woman happy maybe one day and get to taste her sweet nookie and all this time it was all for nothing because all it takes is a Subway sandwich? damn it! why didn't anyone tell me?