Wife flirting with old friend...not sure what to think...

[jjjscv]

HI everyone. I'm a noob here, and this will be my first post. I never thought I'd be here writing something like this, but there it is, huh. My wife and I have been married for 4 1/2 years, and have been together for just over 9 years total. We met in college, I was 23 and she was 22. (33 and 31 now) We have always had a very trustworthy relationship, even though I can tend to be the insecure type about things. I got better about it over time, and for years now have never "worried" about my wife.

However, our relationship does have its major flaws, things that we generally don't discuss much. Maybe I'll get into all of that at another time, but I'll just say that our sex life is nil, especially compared to what it once was. We have a baby boy that is 8 months old, our first child. Our relatinoship is very high on the emotional level and very low on the intimacy level. My wife has body self-image issues, and struggles with her weight (although she is still very attractive). However, the sex part has been a little better since after the baby was born.

The main point of why I'm writing though, is that I'm starting to obsess and worry over a situation involving my wife and a long-time male friend of hers. They have known each other since middle school, and even though they didn't go to the same college, have always maintained contact and a friendship with each other through the years. I never thought anything of him, because honestly...I'm a better looking guy than he is, at least I think I am. He is, however, a fireman now, so I guess he's got the whole fireman's body thing, but whatever, that's not the point. The point is, through all of the years my wife and I have been together, she has gotten together with this friend every now and then just to hang out. Anytime I've asked if there was ever, at any time in the past, even the slightest hint of a relationship with him, she's laughed and just explained that Mark (the friend) is "literally just like a brother." Mark is married also, and so I've never really worried about it, although it still always seemed a bit odd.

Anyway, 4 months ago, my wife told me she was going to get together with Mark. She hadn't seen him since our baby was born in the summer. I said fine. In the past, trips to see him have usually consisted of meeting for lunch, or something basic like that. On this occassion, she went over to his place (his wife and kid were out of town) to pick him up, they went out to dinner (on a Saturday night), went to a club for drinks, and stayed out until around 1am. Keep in mind, since the birth of our child, my wife and I had not had a single night out to ourselves. When she came home (she didn't call all night, very unlike her) she was almost giddy with happiness. It hurt to see her that way, and to know that this other person was with her during it.

So, I found out the password to her email. OK OK, you can judge me if you want. Truth is she's done the same thing to me in the past. But anyway, I needed to know if something was going on, and I needed to know if something had happened that night. There was good news and bad news. The good news was that the night had been basically innocent. They didn't have any physical contact or anything romantic. However, it was clear that something from that night sparked a little flame with them, because they then proceeded to start sending each other emails constantly. It's the stuff from these emails that has me in my dilemma.

(i'm sorry this is so long...I really am!)

I'll spare you all of the details, but here's a few things that I found out or read through these emails between them:

-Mark had spent the night with her at her apartment in college over a weekend when I went out of town. She never told me about this. According to those emails, they didn't sleep together.

-At the time of our engagement, about 3 months before we got married, she had him down in her bedroom of the apartment she was staying at (before we moved into our first house soon after). Apparently, she layed down on the bed topless (no bra) and he gave her a back massage. According to what she says in her email "I remember the back rub you gave me. It was nice - I got goosebumps. It occurred to me that night to just flip over and get on with things, but I didn't. I'm serious when I say I have your virtue on my mind during those moments. I've always loved your hands, though. Admittedly, it's an odd body part to find sexy, but you've got great hands and I've thought of them on many occasions. You have a very nice upper body also. That's a strong turn on for me with men." (he was already married at this time)

-There are several emails between them semi-playfully pointing the finger at the other as to why they have never "done it." She then writes "I'll be the one to make the moves next time and it will be up to you to throw on the brakes."

-Another one from her from further back says "I hope you were being serious. It's been ages since I've had a good first kiss....The thought of a date with you made me so excited today!"

-Another one from him says "You lie that you didn't want me. I seem to recall you telling me that on a few occasions. Of course I wanted you too. The feelings were mutual. I wanted to do so much." Again, this is from when we were engaged and he was already married.

-And one more, the one that probably sticks with me the most, from her: "I would be lying if I said I didn't think of you on those terms. Of course I did. You're not close with someone like we are without it crossing your mind and sometimes being on the forefront. To be honest, I think of it still (to make this conversation and future meetings good and awkward). You are just such a wonderfully fun and attractive man - quite a catch. My feelings for you are complicated. They always have been. I miss our time together too."

Beyond that, there's another bit in there that mentions that around that time they were hugging and she started to kiss him on the cheek/neck while he grabbed her butt, but then she stopped and nothing ever came beyond that.



Soooo....if you read all of that, wow I thank you so much. I don't really have a lot of friends to talk about this stuff with (i.e. my friends are her friends). They have begun to talk about getting together again. I have very subtly been working in conversations about Mark with her to see what she says about him, if she would even admit that she used to have some kinds of feelings for him besides goofy big brother. To this day, she still laughs it all off and just tells me that I don't understand, and if I knew the nature of their relationship the way she does, I wouldn't worry or wonder about anything. Obviously, this is a lie, and that's killing me. So she's asking me now if I'd be OK if she went out to see him again, and I'm just totally stuck on what to say. I mean, my wife and I have only been out on a date ONCE since our baby was born last year, and she's going to go out with him 2 or 3 times?

And, I'm convinced that something is going to happen between them if they get together again...it might just be a kiss/making out. I doubt it would go beyond that but who knows.

Somebody help me....what should I think of all of this? My wife has lied to me over the years about the nature of this relationship, and even some of the specifics (not telling me he stayed with her...certainly not knowing about the visits with the back rubs). And these things happened while we were a committed couple. Obviously, it's not like they had sex or something massive, but am I overreacting to what I know about this now?

What steps should I take, if any, to bring this to her attention? The only way to open up the dialogue on it is going to be for me to have to admit to her I've been spying on her email for a while.

Ugh...how in the hell did I get to this point?

[lesa]

Sorry I quickly scanned your post. I have to come back to it later.

From what I glanced over it appears that she was "like this" before you guys married.

What she is doing is more than just simply flirting. And he is definitely NOT big brother to her.

She is not cool. I don't know what to say to you. Sorry you are going through this.

EDIT: Oh, I didn't read the first few paragraphs. I apology. I do think this information is very important in this situation. Sex life is nothing and you guys have an 8 month old? That screams major red flag for this relationship. I am amazed about this pattern of babies and relationship damage.

[Cain]

How long ago were these emails sent between them? Dates are actually pretty important. If they were years ago then it isn't as big as it would if they were sent in the last couple of months.

[vashti]

EDIT: Oh, I didn't read the first few paragraphs. I apology. I do think this information is very important in this situation. Sex life is nothing and you guys have an 8 month old? That screams major red flag for this relationship. I am amazed about this pattern of babies and relationship damage.

Actually, he said things have been a bit better since the baby. Don't blame the baby!

jjscv - it doesn't sound like your wife has done anything wrong YET, but she is definitely heading into dangerous waters. I suggest you keep it to yourself that you know what she's been up to, but tell her you want to join her when she meets with this man. In fact, I think you should tell her you want to get together as couples because whoever is important to her should be important to you. Get a babysitter and go, and be very charming and likeable. Having the two of them sit together with spouses may throw a damp blanket on their flirtations - it's harder to stab someone in the back if you've been friendly with them.

[Cain]

While she may not have done anything wrong in terms of physical cheating, if those emails were sent recently then I definitely think she's guilty of emotional cheating. Telling someone through email that the next time you see them you're going to try to initiate something and it's up to them to stop it is a little ****ed up IMO.

[Mish]

What steps should I take, if any, to bring this to her attention? The only way to open up the dialogue on it is going to be for me to have to admit to her I've been spying on her email for a while.

What is happening by the looks of things is an emotional affair and if you don't interfere in one way or another the physical cheating will catch up to the emotional cheating already going on. There are a number of actions you can take depending on what you would like the outcome to be.

- You can take the softly softly approach, don't tell her about the emails you saw and ask her to only see Mark as a couple with you. The problem with this, she may not listen to you and see him anyway without telling you in the future (She has already broken the trust, so she is very much capable of it).

- You can escalate it, tell her that you know about what's going on between her and Mark, you have evidence and you don't want her to see him again. The problem with this approach is if she refuses the only other escalation afterwards is legal proceedings. Though it's a path that would keep everyone on the same page.

- You can turn a blind eye to the affair and hope it will run its course (path with most amount of pain for you)

- You can send the evidence you have to Mark's wife and hope she will get him to push the breaks instead.

- You can say "fcuk it" and divorce her based on the evidence you already have since she already broke the trust and it will be very difficult to repair it.

I'm sure there are a few other options at your disposal and in the end it will all depend on what kind of outcome you will want to see. Most options will be difficult and painful and I think it's very unfortunate that the child is involved in this. Whatever you may think was your fault that brought you here, I think the final fault rests with her, she's taken things too far.

[vashti]

You could bring his wife in on this, and then you could BOTH confront your spouses together.

Oh, the drama!

[carl1222]

What is happening by the looks of things is an emotional affair and if you don't interfere in one way or another the physical cheating will catch up to the emotional cheating already going on. There are a number of actions you can take depending on what you would like the outcome to be.

- You can take the softly softly approach, don't tell her about the emails you saw and ask her to only see Mark as a couple with you. The problem with this, she may not listen to you and see him anyway without telling you in the future (She has already broken the trust, so she is very much capable of it).

- You can escalate it, tell her that you know about what's going on between her and Mark, you have evidence and you don't want her to see him again. The problem with this approach is if she refuses the only other escalation afterwards is legal proceedings. Though it's a path that would keep everyone on the same page.

- You can turn a blind eye to the affair and hope it will run its course (path with most amount of pain for you)

- You can send the evidence you have to Mark's wife and hope she will get him to push the brakes instead.

- You can say "fcuk it" and divorce her based on the evidence you already have since she already broke the trust and it will be very difficult to repair it.

I'm sure there are a few other options at your disposal and in the end it will all depend on what kind of outcome you will want to see. Most options will be difficult and painful and I think it's very unfortunate that the child is involved in this. Whatever you may think was your fault that brought you here, I think the final fault rests with her, she's taken things too far.

I like the option in bold. Sure, it's chickensh*t, but what justice!!! Besides, it gives his wife an important heads up that her husband is about to f**k someone else! In fact, I think it's almost immoral not to tell his wife something you know about something so important to her.

Carl.

[LadieNisha4u2nv]

Since Misombra is an aspiring Private Investigator on cheaters, we can hire her to do the job!

[lesa]

Since Misombra is an aspiring Private Investigator on cheaters, we can hire her to do the job!

And she can fly out there....wherever you are.

[jjjscv]

Guys- thank you all so much for your replies. It really has given me a lot to think about. Seriously, thank you very much for caring enough to respond.


I read through what I typed last night, and although all of it is true, I feel like it might have been a bit misrepresentative of this entire situation. I'm not trying to say this just to back off what I typed last night and be a "peacemaker" type (even though I've done that in the past).

But it's just that I believe there could be the possibility that a lot of the dialogue going on between them is of the tongue-in-cheek variety. I don't know that my wife is entirely serious when she says things like "next time it'll be up to you to put on the brakes." Now, maybe that's just me seeing what I want to see out of it, but I know her better than anyone. At worst, I think she's confused about how she feels when she types something like that (as opposed to being all for it and not morally opposed at all). More likely, I think she's just being playful over emails with someone that she probably had an attraction to in the past (before I even knew her) and flirting. The problem is, of course, that I don't know, and since I've gotten this info by spying on her, I can't really bring it up unless I'm ready to completely blow the lid off of this thing.

I'll be honest, if I found out this was nothing more than some silly flirting via email, and I basically came out and accused my wife of indfidelity or worse, told Mark's wife that he was being unfaithful, I would feel like an idiot. So that's why I don't know how to move forward with this.

I want to include one other thing I found in her emails. It was an untitled email that she wrote to herself: This is not healthy. You're sitting there checking your email every twenty minutes looking for something that's not coming. You're developing an unhealthy obsession with this. You are married and you have to figure out how to make that work. You watched Brothers and Sisters tonight and you saw elements of a relationship that you want but don't have. You want total trust. You want peace of mind. You want financial security. Can you find that here? If not, begin making your decisions now because it will be much harder in the future.


That was from about 3 months ago. After her "date" with him, but before a lot of the emails I detailed in the first post.

Given those things added to the mix, does that change how you think I should proceed with this?

Sigh....I'm tired.

[Cain]

That's even worse.

The email makes it look like she's having doubts about your marriage and is unsure if she wants to stay in it. And the fact that those emails you showed were in the last three months after her untitled email tells me that the only tongue in her cheek is likely Mark's.

I would approach this whole thing with caution. Though she may not leave you for Mark, I wouldn't be surprised if something did happen between them.

[vashti]

It sounds to me like the other guy is the least of your worries. He is a symptom of a problem - not the root. Your wife is unhappy in your marriage. It may be related to hormones because of the pregnancy, or it may be a more serious problem, but in either case, I suggest you get some marital counseling.

[misombra]

i think you should hire a babysitter and take your wife out and show her some romance. screw her brains out and make her forget all about this so called friend.

[Mish]

Given those things added to the mix, does that change how you think I should proceed with this?

It is a serious issue, no matter how you look at it. You are seating on a powder keg which can easily explode. There are:

- An emotional affair (or at least signs of it)
- A wife doubtful or confused about the relationship
- A wife who knows she is doing something wrong (though on the bright side appears to favor not going through with it)
- A friend with suspicious motives

What I would do I would confront her only if just to bring the entire issue onto the surface. I'd prefer making a fool out of myself if I'm wrong than going through a deep suspicion that would slowly poison my relationship. But then again, I've never been married and never had a child, so I might be viewing this situation from entirely different set of experiences.

Which ever way you proceed I personally think that the issue needs to come out one way or another, even if just so you can start trying to find ways to repair the trust (just together or in a form of counseling) At the moment it seems you can't even do that since your mistrust doesn't have a motive (as far as she can tell right now anyway).