do yourself a favor

[IndiReloaded]

Who gives a damn if Socrates was murdered?

Aside: Technically he wasn't murdered. It was suicide. But he was forced to it by the emperor, which to me is the same thing.

I was just poking fun at Cams intentional 'baffle with BS' post. LOL. His important post was the one previous, IMO.

[lovesjoyajm]

Well the funny thing is that no matter what you debate, page after page, anyone who reads this shit is going to judge it to their own standard and do what they think is right. So why bother and argue what's right in the first place?

In that case, why bother debating ANYTHING? Ever?

It's not to decide which side is right and which is wrong, or necessarily even to find common ground. Ideally, we could gather up all the ideas floating around in this thread and synthesize a third possibility, better than either of the two sides, but in the meantime, at least it's interesting to hear everyone's opinions.

In my opinion.

[IndiReloaded]

I think a lot of what comes up here IS actually 'news' to some ppl. There is a lot of mis/disinformation about marriage & childraising. Its good for you young ones especially to read about the reality of these things from real ppl. Particularly if you aren't hearing it from your parents. Teachers, mentors and other authority figures in your life may also be able to provide this, but frankly speaking as one of those ppl, I'm more inclined to tell it like it is here on LF than to divulge anything about my marriage and child rearing philosophy to one of my students. For all the reasons you might imagine. Same for Cam also, I'm sure.

Cam's diagnostic point about us moving away from a societal standard actually points to a solution for the crap a lot of kids are experiencing. A reaffirmation of personal responsibility and commitment. He's telling you, rightly, not to buy into the 'virtue' of the victim mentality. That stuff about the philosophers was just his (very erudite) way of saying the argument was false b/c he could give examples where wisdom did NOT arise from adversity. Tho, who knows? Maybe Socrates came from a broken home too. But the point about how to fix these problems in your life is the key.

[lost21]

so far the arguments for getting married include, but are not limited to...

1) you can call somebody your "husband/wife" as opposed to "girlfriend/boyfriend."

2) because that's just what you do when you're pregnant or have kids.

3) in order to spite others.


wow, i'm totally convinced now.

LMAO! Nice!

[Only-virgins]

I can't wait to not get married!!!

[ausgirl]

Cynicism protects you from yourself. If you marry the first guy you "fall in love with" I'm willing to bet within ten years you'll be divorced, jaded, and every bit as cynical as anyone else around here. Just wait and see.

Well it seems to me like you have no faith in humanity. May I ask what happened to you?
It's hard for me to fall in love with 'just anybody', and I don't use the word love lightly so I'm willing to bet that I will be as happy as my parents are after 35 years of marriage. I don't care how much of a cliche that is...that's what I believe.

[CAM]

alright, i'm a little more sober and able to deal with all this lol.

cam, i'm not saying that good only comes from bad situations. i'm saying that a lot of good has come from bad situations.

usually the people who argue with me on this are those who have lived pretty comfortable lives.

So, the last paragraph is 'class-consciousness' or what? Well, I have no idea what you mean by "comfortable" because there isn't a person in the world (or at least damned few) who have led a life without blemish. Good can come from bad situations--I know from personal experience. I also know that there are tons of examples of people who don't learn the right lesson from bad situations. I also know that a wise person will be able to identify the right path in life regardless of their experiences.

[CAM]

In that case, why bother debating ANYTHING? Ever?

It's not to decide which side is right and which is wrong, or necessarily even to find common ground. Ideally, we could gather up all the ideas floating around in this thread and synthesize a third possibility, better than either of the two sides, but in the meantime, at least it's interesting to hear everyone's opinions.

In my opinion.

How conveniently Hegelian.

[IndiReloaded]

I can't wait to not get married!!!

I just snorted my tea.

These posts are the reason I keep coming back here. Thanks OV.

[ecojeanne]

How conveniently Hegelian.

so what. she has a good point.

[FLY_hope1]

your idea is great!I agree with you