do yourself a favor

[misombra]

There is a big difference when kids are involved.

Read back.

your argument doesn't have strength. people separate and break up when children are involved all the time, especially if they're married.

in fact everybody i know that went and got married and had kids in their 20's have split up with children less than ten years old.

the whole kids argument seems more of a religious thing or societal pressure to me than anything. i've seen marriage be the ultimate destroyer of relationships.

[Aeradalia]

Ultimately... it's not the marriage itself that guarantees success... it's the strength and determination of those involved in a committed relationship that make for the most successful relationships.

Marriage seems more like an 'idiot-proof' idea that was intended to force people to try harder, but it doesn't work. You cannot replace fidelity, motivation, devotion, and love with a contract. These things have to be in place for a marriage contract to even work.

The independents have a point in that marriages really don't matter... because without the emotional commitment, they can't work. Also long-term relationships with this commitment can work just as well as any marriage of equal fortitude.

Those that support the marriage idea do have a point too... it was intended to make separation more difficult. However, it fails miserably. If anything, it makes those involved far too lazy (i.e. we're married now, everything should work out... or... I married him so now he's trapped).

Children get hurt in any kind of long term relationship that turns sour... marriage-based or not. It's not the institution of marriage that needs to be enforced... it's the idea of working on a committed long-term relationship of any kind that needs to be supported. Something that involves both partners' undivided attention --- not a piece of paper that seems to make people lazy relationship-wise --- or even naive.

Basically, let's start from the ground up with reestablishing valued relationships involving more than just sex or a potential 'servant.' How about actually living out some of that 'equality' instead of arguing about it when we feel it's to our advantage?

(Yes, I know... I said I wouldn't get involved... but this has been going on for quite some time).

[vashti]

I don't have a problem with single people who don't want to marry (in fact, I don't see the point if you aren't planning on having kids), but it is really indisputable that children of divorce are statistically more likely to be poor, and really, common sense will tell you the same thing. Even if the absent parent does their part and contributes financially to their kid's welfare, it costs more to run two households than it does to run one.

[misombra]

I don't have a problem with single people who don't want to marry (in fact, I don't see the point if you aren't planning on having kids), but it is really indisputable that children of divorce are statistically more likely to be poor, and really, common sense will tell you the same thing. Even if the absent parent does their part and contributes financially to their kid's welfare, it costs more to run two households than it does to run one.

i don't see how marriage changes things, those people would still be poor and separated. the only difference is now they're divorced and poor. probably spent a couple thousand on a divorce.

[vashti]

My sister's divorce cost her almost $100,000 and they were poor.

Anyway, I'm not taking into consideration separations, which is IMO just the first step towards divorce.

[ecojeanne]

[QUOTE=vashti;431392]My sister's divorce cost her almost $100,000 and they were poor.

QUOTE]
holy mother of all that is good and pure, wtf?! you're sis aint poor if she can spend that on a divorce, get real.

[vashti]

Don't you know anything about divorce lawyers? They bill you. And bill you. And bill you. And if your ex (who keeps changing lawyers because of non-payment) decides to continue filing motions in court, you need a lawyer to defend you and keep your kids from being taken away, and they cost a lot.

And yes, she was poor. She was living in a couple of rented rooms in someone else's home, and I would routinely buy groceries and clothes for her kids. Now that she's gotten rid of the ass, she isn't poor anymore.

[ecojeanne]

wow that sounds awful, doesn't encourage the idea of marraige...

[vashti]

That's what happens when you get married at 18/19. I don't think anyone should be allowed to marry until they are at LEAST 28, and preferably 30.

[The_bobb]

That's what happens when you get married at 18/19. I don't think anyone should be allowed to marry until they are at LEAST 28, and preferably 30.

Agreed, i have a few married friends and i'm just waiting for it to fall apart, because it will

Let this be a lesson to all you people (girls mostly) that just want the wedding because you think your getting old at 26. Most marriages END. i forgot the actual %, i think it's like 50 something of them end. So please, stop getting married to people you don't love. And wait till your older. 30 is NOT old.

[misombra]

My sister's divorce cost her almost $100,000 and they were poor.

Anyway, I'm not taking into consideration separations, which is IMO just the first step towards divorce.

if she wasn't married she could've spent money to keep her kids and not all that plus a divorce.

again, i don't see marriage as any kind of guarantee that you will not be a poor, single parent at some point.

[LadieNisha4u2nv]

Waiting for their relationships to fail? Some friend you are.

Why is there an age on marriage? That is so ridiculous and stereotypical. If I'm 19 and engaged you're gonna assume it wont work just cuz of my age, just like you all assume I will get drunk and **** up the place when I go to a club, when I dont even drink. Wtf.

As for having children without a marriage, ALOT of kids get sick of seeing their mother going out on a date with a new man so much. I dont have stats, but I know people who hated it. They said it bugs them and it's part of why they are so depressed sometimes cuz they didnt have a father figure around. A real father figre, one that lives there as well and is working things out in a relationship with their mother. Then they resent their father for not sticking around.

[misombra]

As for having children without a marriage, ALOT of kids get sick of seeing their mother going out on a date with a new man so much. I dont have stats, but I know people who hated it. They said it bugs them and it's part of why they are so depressed sometimes cuz they didnt have a father figure around. A real father figre, one that lives there as well and is working things out in a relationship with their mother. Then they resent their father for not sticking around.

again, marriage does not guarantee that that will not happen. my parents were married when i was born, then they got divorced and i watched my dad date all kinds of women. most of them sucked.

[LadieNisha4u2nv]

I really wish marriage didnt turn out to seem as ****ed up as it is portrayed. Even with the possibility of it failing I still think it is worth the shot. But I'm not a marriage recruiter, I'm speaking for myself. I just personally think when children are involved in your life and you dont want marriage it will eventually catch up to you.

Personally, I'm worried about the day my daughter comes to me and asks where's her father. Yes, she has a father figure in her life, but I will have to tell her that he isnt her real father if it ever became so serious between him and I. We've talked about these things already, his main concern is he thinks the father might try to come back in her life(Which everyone that knows him knows his ass aint coming nowhere). Even finding ou that your father figure isnt your biological father can be a burden, speaking from experience.

I just think it is better to plan having children while marriage is in the picture, but that is MY opinion.

[misombra]

well i just don't understand how or why. other than it being a religious thing, or a societal pressure.