Going in Circles

[Dammit10586]

I'm not sure how apt this site will be at giving feedback to a broken up couple, but at this point I could use the advice anyway.

This particular girl, lets call E, has been in my life for 5 years, since the start of college. Immediately interested in each other, we drifted on and off and danced around painfully for years until finally I buckled down and won her over to be my girlfriend. A few months in, she flipped out on me for taking a day trip to another state with a friend and not telling her. She broke up with me and drunkenly made out with an ex. The next day she regretted and try to fix things, but I was unwilling to accept, feeling cheated, and we drifted onward in a pseudo-relationship (together, but open to the concept of dating other people) for another few months.

She didn't want to date anyone else, but understood why I was no longer certain of our relationship. Because of our arrangement, she wound up going on two dates with someone else, who we'll call L. I wasn't thrilled with this, but it WAS my idea, and she assured me that she didn't like L and was just getting a few free dinners.

Well surprise, the pseudo-relationship crashed horribly, and we broke up, seemingly for good. Being upset at the time, it was I who made the final decision, but one I regretted and tried to undo minutes later, to no avail. After a few weeks we began talking and spending time with each other again, quickly realizing we were still in love with each other. I had seen a few other girls, and she was now dating L more seriously, to my distress. I tell her constantly that I love her and that we should be together, but while she confesses that she's still in love with me and treats me somewhat she would a boyfriend, now SHE is wary of bringing back our relationship.

God that's alot of backstory. My question is this.

I recently revealed to her that after we broke up, I began hooking up with a co-worker, let's call N, one I had previously told E I had no romantic interest in. This is true. Bad as it sounds, I have no real feelings for N, and hooked up with her because I was single, open-minded, and couldn't think of a reason not to. E is in morbid distress over this fact, claiming I lied to her, I'm an inconsistent person, she can't trust me, and that she's right to not want to resume our relationship. Is this any different than what happened between E and L? She went on two dates with him while we were still together, claimed he meant nothing, and now a month later L is her new boyfriend.

I want to save this relationship, but I want her to want it too. I'm well aware of and very consistent with the fact that I only love and want to be in a relationship with her, but at the same time, I don't want to remain celibate or shut out other women. She's dating, why shouldn't I? I don't want to feel like that pathetic guy pining after a girl who won't take him back.

So yeah. There's a bunch of questions. Any thoughts?

-Doomed and Loving It

[lahnnabell]

Honestly, why do you want to save this relationship? What will you two bring into this relationship to make it a safe, caring, trustworthy environment?

You are both duplicitous (basically means backstabbing) immature people. You keep trying to one-up each other with these passive-aggressive revenge tactics.

I think you know what you need to do. No, I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear.

[Cbrider]

Too much stress and anxiety between you, all the backwater will never let this relationship move anywhere beyond friends. You will always hold a certain feeling of distress over what happened.

Best advice? Move on, it sucks but move on. Shes in a relationship with L and clearly doesn't have strong enough feelings to leave him for you, much less why should she? Its always the first thing that you think of when you miss someone, how can you get it back. Fact is break ups happen for a reason, whether it be because someone cheated or you always fight, nature took its course.

Find a more compatible person, she is out there looking too. For future advice, don't leave the state without letting your bf/gf know, both for security and safety.

[Dammit10586]

Wow, that was a quick response. Thanks. Yeah, i mean E and I are a hard couple to get at first glance, no question...and we're definitely not the best of people but we're very good together. we complement each other extremely well, she challenges me and never bores me. We're two rough around the edges people, but when things are going well, it's a match made in heaven. the girl makes me happier than anything in the world.

If I were to compare the relationship to anything, I'd say Dr. Cox and Jordan for any Scrubs fans out there.

Truly, the girl is one of the few people who get me, and im one of the few people who can handle her. It's a partnership that I never want to be without in my life. If either of us ended up getting married or having children, we both know we'd want it to be with the other. THAT's what I want to save.

Sorry if it's still confusing.

[Dammit10586]

that last post was to the first person.

Is the state thing really that bad? We both live in New York, and went to the same college in Connecticut. I went there for a few hours for a meeting with a professor/mentor. Obviously I'd understand if I was spending the night in another state, but I didn't think a few hours going somewhere she was very familiar with was a big deal.

[Cbrider]

that last post was to the first person.

I feel so cheated.

How old are you anyway?

[Dammit10586]

lol ha! sorry. new to the site, not sure how to reply to one direct post, didn't wanna leave ya out.

Yeah we're young, and I'm sure that won't help my case here. Both 22.

[Cbrider]

Both 22.

Theres your problem.

I still wake up in the morning not knowing what cereal I want to eat, I surely don't know who the hell I want to spend my life with. You're throwing yourself at something that should be the last thing on your mind at this age. Go get your fun and recklessness out now, you have an eternity to say "I do."

[Naples]

There really was no relationship to save. It was an extremely dysfunctinoal romantic entanglement which, unfortunately, caused a few feelings to erupt in the process (which is inevitable)...But I would be willing to bet most of the feelings are born of jealousy and male pride wanting to compete with her new guy, as opposed to genuine love. However you probably do care for her, to the extent that you are currently capable of caring. Truth is, neither one of you are ready for a solid, successful relationship. You both have some growing up to do (forgive me if this seems a bit harsh.)

And to answer your question-- sleeping with your coworker is in NO WAY anaologous to her going on a few dates with the new guy. First of all, she was honest with you. Second of all, you stated it was YOUR idea for the relationship to be "open."

Play the field...that's all you're presently ready to handle. After some years of maturing, you will tire of being single and unsure of your next kiss. You will be ready to settle. Best of luck!

[Dammit10586]

God did I just completely pick the wrong people to talk to. I was grateful for the advice last night, but this is out of hand.

Cbrider, unless your profile isn't accurate, you're 22 as well. Do you have some huge perspective on relationships I'm missing out on? Some people get married at 18. My brother had the same girlfriend, his first girlfriend, from 19-24 before they moved in together. He would be happy with her forever. You're gonna tell these people that they're wrong for doing what makes them happy and making adult decisions at their age? Who exactly are you?

I didn't say I was proposing to this girl. But I know the kind of man I am, and the kind of woman she is. It may not always be perfect and we may be fresh out of college, but if I got a ring and asked her to marry me tomorrow, who exactly are any of you to judge me? Relationships are imperfect, and at times volatile. They don't vomit sunshine and kittens. Give me a dysfunctional, unstable and tumultuous but passionate honest relationship anyday over something traditionally "healthy." Who is anyone to say what's "solid, and successful?" I'd be bored out of my skull with an ordinary girl who couldn't challenge me every once in awhile. Every relationship is different, and it's a matter of what works for the couple. The responses I've gotten here don't seem to reflect that.

Male pride...I'll have you know that I'm avoiding just that. I'm well aware of that feeling and it's exactly why I'm going about this the way I am. I told her precisely that the reason I've NOT asked her to leave her relationship for me and haven't wanted to learn any details of their relationship is so that she knows for certain that I want her for HER, not out of competing with some other guy, or wanting what I can't have. I would want her just the same if she were celibate. The relationship between E and L isn't exclusive, anyway. We both agree that if her and I are ever going to work again, it must be for the right reasons, and thus we won't drop everything and everyone and jump into each others arms. Rather we should take the time and thought to realize exactly why we love each other, and why it's a match that should continue. Immature my ass.

I did NOT sleep with the co-worker. Hooked up with was perhaps unclear, but no sex occurred. E says she has no problem with me seeing other women, I have every right to. Rather the ONLY reason the co-worker N bothers her is because I had said previously that N wasn't someone I would be interested in pursuing any kind of relationship with. That's still true. It's an argument based on a feeling I want to empathize with, understand, so we can talk it out. MY problem is just that I'm having trouble seeing how it's different. We both denied interest in someone, only to go back on it later. Like humans do. YES, going on dates while still in a relationship was my idea. I don't deny that. But I was single when I hooked up with N, so why would it have been wrong for me to do that?

It's clear to me that this board is the wrong place for discussing anything but the typical, generic definition of a relationship. All I want to figure out is why what she did with L is any different from what I did with N, and thus see if I was wrong, and work on it so I can be a better person for her.

Yeesh.

[lahnnabell]

We understand that relationships can be volatile, but trying to find a place where you two can trust one another and build a SECURE relationship TOGETHER is almost laughable right about now.

The reason we are not giving you steps on how to get this girl back is because there virtually are no steps. We've been through this stuff before and it hasn't worked out. Granted, not every situation is the same, but yours has had a rough history and it's very difficult to recover from that. You may spend months, probably years, repairing the damage that you have both caused one another.

The task at this point would be for you two to be on board TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME. Winning her back is negotiating. You're really going to try and convince her to be your girlfriend? What changes are you going to make in your life that will ensure she is loved and supported? What do you expect from her? I'm not talking, "Oh, I'll show her that I care more." I mean specific. Make a laundry list.

Hooking up is hooking up, man. The fact that you make this distinction between actual intercourse and making out or whatever you two did shows your immaturity. They are different, but the way she FEELS about it is clearly no different. You have to work with what you have.

To sum it up, you both breached each other's trust. Which is ridiculous because you both claimed to be committed to letting each other do whatever with whoever. You both are not in the right, or the wrong. It's just a bad situation and unless you want to be shoveling shit for a few years and potentially suffer another break up, you might as well get out now.

If you respond with another lengthy excuse as to why you just can't move on, I, and most others, will assume you simply only came here to get the advice you wanted, not what you needed.

[Gigabitch]

No, you did not pick the wrong people to talk to, unless you were just hoping we'd tell you what you wanted to hear.

Yes, you mislead E about your interest in N. i don't know that you lied, necessarily, but you mislead her.

I think you guys need a break from one another. The male competition point is valid whether you want to see it or not. The fact is, you broke up with her. You were jerking her around and didn't want her back until you realized she might find someone else, which is pretty ****ing rich coming from you, IMO. You who were busy hooking up with someone else anyway.

You destroyed your relationship. Take responsibility. Move on.

And yes, it would be a different story if you were 10 years older. You have no idea what lies in store for you, or who. Get out there and find out.

[Cbrider]

God did I just completely pick the wrong people to talk to. I was grateful for the advice last night, but this is out of hand.

Cbrider, unless your profile isn't accurate, you're 22 as well. Do you have some huge perspective on relationships I'm missing out on? Some people get married at 18. My brother had the same girlfriend, his first girlfriend, from 19-24 before they moved in together. He would be happy with her forever. You're gonna tell these people that they're wrong for doing what makes them happy and making adult decisions at their age? Who exactly are you?

I am 22, my profile is perfectly accurate, so let me break this down for you.

The U.S divorce rate is is higher than its ever been, its roughly 50%. That means that ONE out of every TWO marriages FAIL. Any idea why that might be? Its because people get married young, WAY to young. Ask people your age that are married what they think, you will get the same answer from every single one, "Its good, but not worth it this soon, wait..."

I don't care who you are, where you come from, how many people you have or haven't dated, what your favorite color is, what your cats favorite flavor of fancy feast is, you are NOT done growing into who you will be. You might think you are, but don't kid yourself, your still changing and trying to find who you really are. This is where the problem of failing marriages mainly festers. People think they have found that one person and things are great because they are young and can go at it like rabbits for hours on end, that hourly job is paying well and the world is still spinning.

The economy stumbles, you lose your job or take a pay cut, that special someone and you are starting to realize that after the lust fades you really aren't as happy as you thought you were and everything starts to look less amazing. Sorry man, you need to have a solid foundation to build on with serious relationships and the early twenties just isn't a wise time to do so.

You came here looking for advice, part of asking for advice is understanding that what you receive may not be what you're hoping for. You can disregard what I say, but I have no reason to deceive or lie to you. I may not tell you what you want to hear but I sure as hell will tell you what you should here. I am 22, same age as you, i don't claim to be an expert, just honest. You're emotionally charged which makes it hard to make heads or tails of whats going on, trust me I have been there. I empathize with how you feel, but after the storm passes your feelings and thoughts will change.

What works for your brother is entirely different than what may work for you. It is entirely possible that your brother will marry his girlfriend or at least spend the rest of his days with her. I'm only pointing out that statistically you are fighting with the odds against you. I am not Ms. Cleo, I don't have a crystal ball to see your future or mine nor would I look if I had the means. History is a compilation of successes and failures, you are one of millions upon millions of 22 year olds that think that there is no one better for them than whats before them. The right there separates happy unions from bitter unions.

I know you weren't thinking about marriage, but that is ultimately where a relationship ends, either you break up or you get married more or less. Statistics are scary, be fair to yourself, give it a fighting chance to find "the one." No one is worth waiting for or being on the fence for. Its all or nothing, this girl either has no idea what she wants or doesn't want you, neither swing in your favor. I'm not here to be your enemy or antagonist, just to do what I can to help you out. Take it or leave it.

I went through a really painful separation from my last girl friend, pain I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. I see you heading down that same road willingly and I hate to see it.

-CB