Update from camp

[Bonovox40]

Had quite a weekend at camp. For those of you following my "thrown for a loop" post, you might be like, "camp...what?" but i'll explain.
I talked to Betty Friday night and she told me that the head camp director was taking off for the weekend. The other lady in charge said that the camp counselors had Saturday free and were going to go out for the day somewhere fun but didn't have enough transportation to take everyone. Betty told them she knew me and that I had a car. (None of the other counselors know any Americans here) To make a long story shorter, I was allowed to come down and help drive, but that was just the cover excuse. The other lady in charge (Everyone calls her Grandma) knew that Betty was dying to see me and thought "what the heck, he's not going to cause trouble." so I drove down Saturday morning and got there about 9:30 am.

Betty saw me pull up and ran out to see me and launched herself into my arms. She couldn't stop smiling and didn't say anything for like 3 minutes of just hugging. We went inside and she introduced me to everyone else. I thanked Grandma for letting me visit.
Before we were able to leave, there was still things to do to prepare for the handicapped campers arrival on Sunday. I helped clean, cook, move furniture, hang up decorations, build a few small projects, organize items and I even helped fix a broken lawn mower! It was all fun though and I felt good helping out because everyone here gives more than receives. They work their fingers to the bone for hardly any salary. I had a good time and just being there with Betty was worth every bit of elbow grease.

I did accomplish what I set out to do. About an hour after I was helping, I had to go look for some nails in a supply cabin. I didn't know where it was so Betty offered to come help. We went inside and she started hugging me and saying how happy she was that I came and started giving me eskimo kisses and smiling. I just leaned forward slowly and so did she and we kissed....and then she was all over me like no tomorrow! lol. She didn't waste any time with the small, sweet kissing. She wanted to swallow my soul! hehe. Nah, it was all good. Just a flurry of passion that has been slowly simming, brought to a boil in just 2 seconds. I could tell she was longing for it just as much as me. We stopped and took a few seconds to catch our breaths and just smiled. She was like "Oh my...the way you make me feel..I must be crazy.." Needless to say, that was just the start of our little "we have to look for..um...supplies." moments. There were times we'd sneak a little kiss even with other people around and they just smiled. Only one girl gave Betty crap about me and that was when I went into the girls cabin to have betty open her package. (it arrived that morning)

About dinner time, I had her get her package and open it. She looked at the pictures I sent and the letter I wrote and was almost in tears. She hugged me and whispered in my ears. "Thank you. I love you so much." and I said the same.
There could be so much to tell but i'll leave it for another time. We had more time to ourselves when everone was asleep and kissed and touched (through clothing) and hugged and just had a great time. I slept in the guys cabin. (Grandma offered for me to stay the night) I left after breakfast Sunday morning. Betty took about 15 minutes to just let me go. Literally. lol. Hugging and holding my hand even when I was in my car starting to drive away.

She had text messages from her bf while I was there and would not reply to them except for "I am fine, I am out shopping with everyone. talk to you later." and such. She did not want to express and feelings. She told me that "You know we have talked of many things and that I told you I cannot love two people at the same time. You are the only one that fills the spot in my heart that I have to share with another. He is not there any longer."

She still has yet to break up with him and I know that if she doesn't, then this will not progress past the summer. We did have a long talk about him in the car (her wanting to just open up and tell me things and she just poured it all out, I didn't ask or pry about him) and she wants to breakup with him but doesn't want to do it over the phone, she thinks it's wrong that way. She said she also feels kinda bad that she has cheated once she kissed me but that her heart is for me and it feels happy to be with someone who she feels something for after a year or more of unhappiness and loss of anykind of loving feeling with him.

I know that's all red flags from even thinking about what i'm doing with her. (unless i'm just doing a booty call thing, which I am not) I do HOPE that she honestly ends it with him, but I can't assume she will. I also feel somewhat sad that she has not told anyone of me and talks to her family now and then. Her mother called her when I was there and asked "Have you met any nice American guy?" (referring as someone to date, because her family hates her bf because they know she is always sad with him and he has abused her)

She said that she wants to tell her of me but is scared to think that they will be upset because she is still with her bf, but loving/cheating with me. Crazy stuff.

Anyway, i'm just following my heart. I'm not trying to be someone i'm not around her, i'm not trying to use material things to gain her affection. I am trying to look ahead and be safe for my own good and at this stage, if she ends up/decides not to leave this guy, then I will not wait/commit to any form of relationship. I will not be "In case of emegency, break glass" guy. I am also concerned about being the "rebound guy", but I don't know if this situation falls under that category exactly or what. I feel a really amazing bond with her and we just seem to match like opposite sides of a magnet. I know alot of this is initial lust and affection, but it feels like we are compatible on a much more larger scale in terms of; wants, needs, goals, feelings, ideals, morals, values, faith, love and hope.
You have NO idea how much her and I laughed and laughed and laughed the whole time at things and our discussions. There were times to be serious and talk but so many time we were just smiling and laughing. It feels so good to just be me around someone and have them enjoy that are share back. I wasn't immature, but I was fun and sometimes silly and she was the same way back not worrying about being "proper" or having to "act older to fit me" (such as what Joy did for a few months because she thought she needed to)

She's only 21 but seems as though life and experience has aged her somewhat. She has childlike behavior in her heart with wanting to help and give and give selflessly but also loving to laugh and have fun. But serious adult enough to value working, and education and looking ahead to the future and also the past of her lessons and mistakes to help with growing as a person. Just so different than any other woman/girl i've been with. The only thing she has in common with my ex's, is that she has current bf baggage. But that's the only thing I can compare her with in that category.

I don't know what will happen with all this, but I know I will enjoy being with her this summer and after...we'll just have to wait and see what life brings.

There's always more to talk about but I wanted to get the nitty gritty, out of the way for everyone curious about what's been happening with me. Thanks for reading!

[Ratfish256]

Awsome news man!

[jslaughter]

Bono,

I am so happy for you and so sad all at the same time. I really want this to work out, but I really don't like the failure to ditch the bf. Believe me it would be better to dump him before he got here than to have him waste all that $$ on a plane ticket.

Enjoy yourself and know that I wish you well. (But if she comes down here with the BF I cannot promise that one or both of them may not end up as Gator Bait.)

Jules

[Bonovox40]

Lol. Thanks J...I think... I do feel the same way. But I talked with one of my friends today and I honestly don't have the right to tell her what to do. One one end of the spectrum, I FEEL like i'm her bf, but of course...I am not. I know that at this moment, feelings are strong but when it comes down to it...i'm just a guy she's cheating on her bf with. Unfortunate, but realistically true. We both feel that we should have something workout between us. But of course it's in her hands now and I can't control that. I know 5 years with someone is along time and difficult to give up. I found it very hard to leave someone of 3 years and that was AFTER the fact she cheated on me. But she was my first real ltr gf. This is the same for her. She feels he's cheated on her already but can't prove it, and he's hurt her and the love and feelings are gone but there is still those 5 years. You can't deny that just that time could be enough from keeping her from leaving. There's nothing I can do about it.

And even if she SAYS she's done with him...how do I know she really is? She goes back home and he's 15 minutes away. Who's to say he doesn't show up and goes "I forgive you for being with him. Come back to me, I'll be good." (possibly knowing that he already has cheated so they're even now in his mind)

I just don't know. My friend thinks there is a very high chance that everything will go back to the way it was before she met me, after the summer. That she'll stay with him. She asks me about him and her and what to do and I will not tell her what I THINK she should do. It's not my call. I know she's basically asking if I think I could give her some commitment if this all pans out, and on one end I would, but I know that if the risks don't change, I won't promise anything.

I'm sad because I know she's still torn up. Somehow she feels that she can't stop him from coming down. But last night she said he's not sure if he will now because he feels something is wrong. So maybe that's good, but part of me WANTS him to come down so that they WILL have a confrontation. I feel that if he doesn't show up that it will be IMPOSSIBLE for her to breakup with him over the phone. That she will not have "closure" and be sad and feel as though it isn't completly over. Always hanging on to one last bit of him which = half hearted crap for Bono.

I don't know what to think. I feel the strongest connection with this girl that i've ever felt for someone. And so much of me wants to be selfish and just tell her to dump that guy and that it's "Now, or i'm gone." kinda response. BUT, that's just the voice inside me. Looking at it logically, I know I have no right and no reason to command anything from her. I'm a guy she's allowed to get close to her and make her feel good while she's in a relationship with someone else. That's all I ACTUALLY am.

If she asks me for a commitment or to have this relationship grow, then I WILL set my boundaries. She WILL have to dump this guy and be done with him. No text messages, no phone calls, no visiting, no nothing with him. (Obvious you know?) If she does that but I feel that she is hiding the truth from me or doing stuff behind my back, i'm gone. Just like with Joy.

But I don't know if this is even a possibility yet. I know she thinks I am a risk too. She doesn't know about what I do away from her. She knows I have girls that are my friends (and that's all) call me but she doesn't know them so she's curious and jealous. She doesn't know if I could last without physically cheating if she was away and we tried doing long distance. There are alot of risks to both sides here. The bad part is, I am the one who is more at risk.

I am FREE from all situations. She is INVOLVED with another. She has more to lose (5yr relationship) but I have more at risk. (Being with someone who has cheated even though they knew the relationship is dying, and hence being with someone too weak to stand up and do the right thing because of fear or selfishly trying to avoid conflict and pain)
So I am very confused as what is correct in this case and what is wrong. (or just foolish) My heart tells me to not care and just go all out because of what I feel, but I remember that my mind and heart have to work together to stay happy. My heart is just LETTING me be happy right now. But my mind has to let it STAY that way in the future, and these choices and options will decide that in this case with her.

[Bonovox40]

Hey slaughter, she talked to me last night and said "I wanted to tell you something. I am free now like a bird." and I asked her to explain. she said "I received a text message today from him saying "I think I understand how you feel and that is ok." (or something like that) Then she got another one saying "Hi, this is (some girl's name), I am a good friend of Tony. (her bf) Just wanted to let you know that I will be taking GOOD care of him. He knows that there is life after you. Bye!" (nice huh?)

I asked her if she thought that he has already cheated on her and she said she doesn't think so but she doesn't know and it doesn't matter now. So she claims she is free now. I told her I was happy for her. She asked more questions about our future and this and that, and I tried to give her positive VAGUE answers because I am still afraid of saying "I feel the same" to everything. In alot of ways I DO feel the same, but I am still wary over all this.
How do I know he is really gone? How do I know he "dumped" her to be with this other girl? How do I know he is just joking and will call her again or show up to meet her?

I feel the she is being honest with me as much as she knows herself. She doesn't know what he might do and of course she can't control that. It looks as though this are all good signs but there might be some deception on his end. She tells me she wishes she could travel with me after camp before I go. My tentative schedule prevents this UNLESS the budget does not get resolved further. (which I actually hope. I would like to start in September or October, but I doubt they'll keep pushing it that far. When it comes to federal state funding and salaries though, you never know!)

I am thankful this has happened but I want to get to know her more before making these promises she wants to hear. You understand.

[jslaughter]

Knew I was waiting for an update, eh?

I have several comments -

The optimist in me - WHOOOOOOO WHOOOOOO

In my mind the ex has shown what a loser he is because it sounds like that was a very clear tactic to make her jealouse and make her come crawling back to him. He thinks her self-esteem is sooooo damaged that the thought of losing him will bring her around. (If everything in fact went down as she said it did.)

I think you are doing the right thing to not make any promises that you don't feel comfortable in making at this time. Bask in the glow of her company for as long as you can - see how things evolve, and make sure you keep your friends up to date.

High Hopes for the Future!
Jules

[Bonovox40]

Thanks Jules. I WANT to be able to make the same statements and promises that she is, but I just can't until I know more. I know she is hurt because she says that now, I am everything to her and that her whole heart is only for me. I WANT to believe that but I want to SEE it also. Just because she's done with him doesn't mean she has the same feelings I do about the situation. Does she still want to communicate or visit him? Major no-no in my book. I can't accept that. Ex's are ex's. You cut all ties and move on. I have to know that she's prepared AND willing to do that.

Even though she's dying to have me feel the same she HAS to have some idea that I need to see the proof in the pudding so to speak. Yes, it is unfair but it is real in that sense. Love doesn't have to know bounds, but well being and safety do. I am not afraid of getting closer to her, but I am concerned that she may not be TOTALLY over him. Yes, she's wanted to leave him, yes she doesn't enjoy that he's hurt her, BUT she was not the one who had the balls to break it off. She had to ignore him till HE supposedly gave up. How is that mature and a responsible way to cope? Maybe she doesn't have closure?

These are things that we can discuss but it's better face to face. It is SOO hard sometimes to talk of these things on the phone because you cannot see someone's face, the phone interference distorts words and you have to repeat or ask for clarification which can get the wrong idea across. I want to talk about these things when I see her next but she always wants to talk of these things everyday on the phone. I'd just like to talk of good things and happy times, and the conversations always get so serious. It's well and good to think of the future, but she thinks of it so much. I know she has an excuse in that she only has a few months here and that puts the pressure on her to think of the future, but she can still take each day as it comes for a little while wouldn't you think?

How do you think I should address these issues with her? In her heart, perhaps she is 100% ready for me and has let go of the past. But how do I know? Just take her word for it? I've done that and gotten burned big time with other people. I know she is different, but everyone is capable of lying, even to themselves.

[jslaughter]

The manner of the break-up isn't so cool - were I in her shoes, time would've been ireelevant - I would've told him see you later. However, not everyone can handle hurting someone and sometimes it's easier to just ignore them until they figure it out. (In other words, apparently I am mean!)

There is nothing wrong with wanting to take some time and move slowly - you have been speaking with this girl for just a few weeks - take your time. Wait until you are person when you can look in her eyes and feel where she is coming from. There is nothing wrong with any of those things - I assure you.

Follow your instincts - as they will very rarely lead you astray.

[Bonovox40]

I want to just go with the flow and relax and see what develops, but how (from a womans view) to I respond to the serious natured questions she asks? "What happens in a month/2 months? What will you do when I leave? What about the future? Is your heart really as filled as mine and do you want the same things to happen as I hope for?"

I just can't say "Oh, just go with the flow." Women don't accept uncaring answers or vague responses. How the heck to I tell her to just chill and let's grow together rather then planning out our whole life story here? Plus, it's like she wants to know i'm totally devoted to her or something. I'm not afraid of that but it has to develop in TIME. (which she feels we don't have TIME for ironically)

What do I do when confronted with these questions? What's a nice way of saying for her not to worry but still feel trusting in me that i'm not out to use her or such. I think she's afraid to put trust into me with me not doing the same RIGHT AWAY in return. Like she doesn't understand that it's OK to learn more about each other before getting into a MAJOR commitment.

[BBC1]

Bonovox40,

Simply invite her to visit Chicago\Disneyland whatever, right after she is done with the camp. Tell her about it.

If she has to leave the country, help her with visa\papers and invite her ASAP.

I want to just go with the flow and relax and see what develops, but how (from a womans view) to I respond to the serious natured questions she asks? "What happens in a month/2 months? What will you do when I leave? What about the future? Is your heart really as filled as mine and do you want the same things to happen as I hope for?"

I just can't say "Oh, just go with the flow." Women don't accept uncaring answers or vague responses. How the heck to I tell her to just chill and let's grow together rather then planning out our whole life story here? Plus, it's like she wants to know i'm totally devoted to her or something. I'm not afraid of that but it has to develop in TIME. (which she feels we don't have TIME for ironically)

What do I do when confronted with these questions? What's a nice way of saying for her not to worry but still feel trusting in me that i'm not out to use her or such. I think she's afraid to put trust into me with me not doing the same RIGHT AWAY in return. Like she doesn't understand that it's OK to learn more about each other before getting into a MAJOR commitment.

[Bonovox40]

The thing is that I currently will not be able to travel with her UNLESS the trooper training gets pushed back further. There is an Illinois State budget conflict going on right now. The academy has already been pushed back a month, but she will still be working at the camp when I start training. If it got pushed back another month, that would be great and I could take a little vacation with her. But for the moment, it's tentativly not going to happen.
I'm not sure what the legal ramifications of her visa are. I do know that she will not stay longer or return anytime soon because of school. She has 2 years of school left and is unable to afford to go to an American school, (Hungarian government pays for her college) and she believes that what she has learned will not transfer plus the language barrier would provide more difficulties. Whatever happens on either end, it looks like the best case scenario is a long distance relationship of a minimum of 2 years. Not very good when that's not what either of us is hoping for. Yes, it's a long way off to know that's how it will be, but that's the reality of the situation if things grow between us. She can't leave to just come see me, and I can't leave because of my career for some time. Who knows.

[jslaughter]

Bono, I have been in a very similar situation - seperated from someone I love for an undetermined amount of time. I maintained the same positive attitude that you do/will - I wrote him literally DAILY and we spoke at least twice a week. (We set up phone dates.) And though I hate to admit this because it shows my age - we didn't email because we weren't really on-line alot back then, but if we were I bet I would've emailed and chatted with him a ton.

Was it easy? Was it fun? HECK NO! But I loved him and it was easy to do that time apart from him knowing we would be together someday than it would've been to not have him at all.

I believe that anything is possible with love, patience, faith, and a little hard work.

[Bonovox40]

I do too. I just don't understand why the ones I find that I feel a strong bond with, I have to struggle so much to maintain, and i've always lost in the end. You think one of these days, i'd just be able to have an enjoyable relationship if only for a year. All my ltr's, have had serious problems before year 1 was up. It was my fault of course to stay involved longer than that.

I know that everything we learn, good and bad and the joys and pain we feel all teach us and help us learn in the end. So I guess that even if something special is supposed to happen with Betty, that it not be easy overall. Maybe it will mean more in the end rather than having it be something simple and easy to accomplish.

But I do have faith, and I do have respect and understanding if things become a ltr. I feel that I can last and I know I will have friends supporting me. (and some that will push in the other direction unless I stand up and tell them i'm happy this way, if I will be.) But most of all I will pray for guidance with this and take whatever path he has for me even if it is difficult or hurts. When I find the right person to complete my heart, he will help me make it work. Somedays it is hard but I still believe that there will be good times for me if I listen. Things are good now so I am fortunate for that, but I still have to keep my ears open and my heart awake.

[BBC1]

Bonovox40,

.......The thing is that I currently will not be able to travel with her UNLESS the trooper training gets pushed back further.

I assume she did not see much of the US from the camp, so you'll be able to show her the country even without much travel - locally - so to speak.
I guess you may invite her on her holidays from her school - to come to visit you.

....I'm not sure what the legal ramifications of her visa are.

Assume there some. You have to initiate some paper work for her and send an invitation papers. In any case you have to start that early if you want to succeed.

..........Whatever happens on either end, it looks like the best case scenario is a long distance relationship of a minimum of 2 years.

2 years? Then forget about it, man.
Either you gonna meet her soon or never.
One way to use her school holiday time.

.....She can't leave to just come see me, and I can't leave because of my career for some time.

You do not have to leave at all. And she'll be definitely able to accept your invitation.

[jslaughter]

Make the most of your time together, as you have been - your future depends on her level of dedication to the relationship as I know that once you commit yourself, that's it.