who wrote the Bible?

[Gribble]

You know what my biggest problem with religion is?

Worship.

If the Christian god appeared before me this very instant, flexed its awesome might and proved beyond any doubt that it really existed I would concede that there was a god. However, I would not worship it.

I find it extremely difficult to respect anyone who would place someone or some thing on a pedestal like that. I can't respect a person who bows and scrapes. I don't care if it's a god you worship, a lowlife celebrity or money. It's pathetic. In fact, the only thing more pathetic is wanting to be worshiped. How can you possibly respect a being that demands something so amazingly petty and juvenile?

[Mish]

A man might call himself a Christian but he doesn't think twice about having sex out of wedlock. He doesn't go to church. He doesn't pray. He's never read the bible. Is he really a Christian? I think not.

Religion is dying and it's a beautiful thing.

I agree with Vash, it has always been like that. Some Religious people are a lot more easy going on the rules than the others, not much has changed in that regard. But Religion itself is not dying, it's getting more support and it's growing stronger. It IS becoming more diluted with modern thinking though, and that's a good sign.

[IndiReloaded]

Spirituality is not the same as organized religion. I'm all for personal growth.

[Mish]

You know what my biggest problem with religion is?

Worship.

If the Christian god appeared before me this very instant, flexed its awesome might and proved beyond any doubt that it really existed I would concede that there was a god. However, I would not worship it.

I find it extremely difficult to respect anyone who would place someone or some thing on a pedestal like that. I can't respect a person who bows and scrapes. I don't care if it's a god you worship, a lowlife celebrity or money. It's pathetic. In fact, the only thing more pathetic is wanting to be worshiped. How can you possibly respect a being that demands something so amazingly petty and juvenile?

Do Christians worship God? I didn't know that. I knew that they pray for forgiveness of their sins and for God to give them guidance in life, but I've never heard a Christian worship. It's considered idolatrous (at least in the Orthodox branch). I also never read that God demands to be worshiped.

[Yggdrasil]

In my opinion, religion should be a tool used to help with spiritual growth, not to manipulate the masses or to collect money for the purpose of personal gain of the institution or certain invidivuals.

I think that currently all of the major religions are persuing either one or the other, or both. Spiritualy is not seriously encouraged (anymore?) by mainstream religion.

Currently the only mainstream philosophy I know off that encourages and works towards spiritualy is Buddhism (and no, Buddhism is not a religion by definition, eventhough some may argue that).

[IndiReloaded]

I beg to differ, Ygg. I admire a lot of buddhist philosophy, same as I think most of the 10 Commandments are decent rules to live by. But those temples and all that gilt inside totally indicates religion.

How about the buddhas in asia that people purchase gold to rub on for good luck & prosperity?

All those new monasteries & statues aren't cheap. You can go to a monastic retreat that is *supposed* to be free, but donations are *strongly* encouraged, at a recommended daily rate. That requires a certain amount of 'salesmanship' done by the monks & staff. Ever been to a monk's talk? That = organized religion as much as any priest's sermon.

Plus, they may not pray to a 'god' but their required leap of faith regarding karma & reincarnation is just as belief-based as the concept of God in any other religion.

Otherwise, tho, I kind of like buddhism myself.

[ecojeanne]

my grandmother prayed to God every day of her life. she was a martyr. she worked herself to the bone, she did everything she could for everyone around her. religon gave her peace of mind to know that all her good deeds would be rewarded. now how can that be a bad thing?

she kept the family together and she ruled the roost and nobody questioned her and she always chose the right way. she never used her power for bad. that is the difference between her and other religious people who use their power for bad.

just sayin her devout religon made her and everyone around her much happier.

so religon can indeed be used for good, you lot just don;t realise how beneficial it can actually be for the body, soul and health of a person.

[Yggdrasil]

I beg to differ, Ygg. I admire a lot of buddhist philosophy, same as I think most of the 10 Commandments are decent rules to live by. But those temples and all that gilt inside totally indicates religion.

How about the buddhas in asia that people purchase gold to rub on for good luck & prosperity?

All those new monasteries & statues aren't cheap. You can go to a monastic retreat that is *supposed* to be free, but donations are *strongly* encouraged, at a recommended daily rate. That requires a certain amount of 'salesmanship' done by the monks & staff. Ever been to a monk's talk? That = organized religion as much as any priest's sermon.

Plus, they may not pray to a 'god' but their required leap of faith regarding karma & reincarnation is just as belief-based as the concept of God in any other religion.

Otherwise, tho, I kind of like buddhism myself.

By definition Indi.. by definition

[vashti]

In my opinion, religion should be a tool used to help with spiritual growth, not to manipulate the masses or to collect money for the purpose of personal gain of the institution or certain invidivuals.

I think that currently all of the major religions are persuing either one or the other, or both. Spiritualy is not seriously encouraged (anymore?) by mainstream religion.

Currently the only mainstream philosophy I know off that encourages and works towards spiritualy is Buddhism (and no, Buddhism is not a religion by definition, eventhough some may argue that).

I strongly disagree with pretty much everything you said in this post.

[Yggdrasil]

I strongly disagree with pretty much everything you said in this post.

That's your privilige vashti. As you are entitled to your opinions, so am I to mine. Would be a dull world if we'd all agree on the same.

And maybe there's a grain of truth in both our opinions combined. Who knows.

[Gribble]

You know what cracks me up? Churches filled to the brim with statues, stained glass, gold tabernacles, marble floors, mahogany altars and everything else.

Have the leaders of the various Christian denominations not read the New Testament? Were they unable to pick up on the not-so-subtle meaning behind much of what their messiah taught?

[ecojeanne]

^^ you're right, they have collected wealth just like everyone else.

with the way they spend money they would eventually be broke had it not been for the donations of rich philanthropists etc etc. there is good and bad to every religon. people should decide to take the good or like you gribble not at all. each to their own.

you can't buy into heaven which i think a lot of people who donate seem to on some level believe. it's not a new thing, it's been going on since forever

[Charlie Boy II]

^^^^

hmmm, food for thought there eco, to be sure.

[ecojeanne]

^^i know, i'm just so profound, it shocks me

[IndiReloaded]

You know what cracks me up? Churches filled to the brim with statues, stained glass, gold tabernacles, marble floors, mahogany altars and everything else.

In neighbourhoods where people are starving and children beaten. I agree, not very consistent in their message are they?