The God Illusion?

[IndiReloaded]

The book by Dawkins (if that is what this thread title refers to) is titled "God Delusion", not 'illusion'. Its a good read & I recommend it.

As for understanding the difference between fact and belief (which is what a discussion of God must be about), I refer to the link in my sig quote again about Critical Thinking. If you actually read it, you'll never be confused about whether something is BS or not again:

[Gribble]

Once upon a time man witnessed a bolt of lightning obliterate a tree. He was incapable of conceiving any other explanation so he determined a god did it. Was he right? Does Hephaistos really craft bolts of lightning for his master to hurl down from the heavens?

Just as man could not conceive of an explanation then, you cannot conceive of one now. That doesn't mean an old invisible man "impregnated" a virgin and fathered himself and then eventually became a zombie and floated into outer space, or whatever story you wish to stick to.

Just because we cannot conceive does not mean something intelligent and omnipotent MUST exist. It simply means that we need more time. We've only justs begun to take science seriously and all ready we've managed to send a man to the moon, among countless other impossibilities. In a thousand years--if we haven't killed ourselves--we will surpass the very gods our ancestors concocted. If they do exist we'll yoke them and enslave them and they will do our bidding. They will grovel and worship at our feet.

[boobaa]

Could someone tell me, wtf is God and what makes it exist? Would you believe it if you were never heard about it? Would you make up your own macarone god?

[ecojeanne]

^^i have no idea, just thinking out loud:

could God be this quantum theory (i think thats the name) thing i've heard of. it proves humans, plants, animals, the earth, planets, universe are all connected to each other so is God that connection somehow?

[boobaa]

Ugh, so, we invent the word God, and then think what might it be?

[Mish]

Kinda like Love, it means something different to different people

[bluesummer]

Since there is no proof for or against a HIGHER POWER (I don't think of it as 'God' like in the religious sense, with a definite gender and form and subject to human flaws), I can't argue for or against it.

I only disagree with religion. 'God' will always be a gray area for me. This is the only reason I don't consider myself an atheist. I accept the idea that there may possibly be a higher power. What it is or what purpose it serves, I don't know. There's so much that's bigger than us and beyond our scope of understanding, so to say it's definitely one way or the other is very presumptuous, if not a little arrogant.

My $.02.

[Lipp]

no proof for or against a HIGHER POWER

no proof for = proof against

[IndiReloaded]

I don't care anymore. Believe whatever you want. If you try to push it on me and I think you are stupid, I will let you know. If I think you are smarter than your beliefs are allowing you to be, I will also let you know.

[boobaa]

Kinda like Love, it means something different to different people

Nope.


Love is lust for someone specific, thats it.


And God, maybe you are missing it with hope?

Well, but it doesn't matter anyway, there is no hope, we are all going to die!

[bluesummer]

no proof for = proof against

There's so much that's bigger than us and beyond our scope of understanding, so to say it's definitely one way or the other is very presumptuous

That IS my proof for, I guess is what I was trying to say. What created the universe? What's beyond it? The concept is mind-boggling, kind of like the concept of a higher power. So when it comes to things like that, you can't simply say there's no proof it exists. That just simple-minded human thinking. We think we're so smart and have all of the answers, but I'm pretty sure in the grand scheme of things we're quite infantile in our capacities.

[Gribble]

BS, if I told you that I had a tiny purple hippo living in my pocket would you believe me? Would you have any doubts? Could you state with certainty that I did not? Why is this god business any different?

Is it not presumptuous to say that because we don't understand something a big invisible old man must exist, or an entity, or whatever? Isn't it less presumptuous to say we don't really know but we have a couple of theories going? Isn't it less presumptuous to strive for an answer rather than to say it was the all-loving murderer in the sky?

This business about greater beings comes from nowhere. We don't understand something so we just assume some magical Harry Potter thing must exist. That is absurd. At least the Big Bang theory has more going for it than that.

I don't know how the universe was created. I know a god didn't do it because there's nothing to indicate such beings exist or have ever existed. There's nothing to indicate that gods aren't just a construct of primitive humans in need of explanation. Until someone shows me otherwise I will continue to know gods do not exist and did not create the universe.

[IndiReloaded]

Okay, someone needs to post the House Hippo vid.

[bluesummer]

BS, if I told you that I had a tiny purple hippo living in my pocket would you believe me? Would you have any doubts? Could you state with certainty that I did not? Why is this god business any different?

Is it not presumptuous to say that because we don't understand something a big invisible old man must exist, or an entity, or whatever? Isn't it less presumptuous to say we don't really know but we have a couple of theories going? Isn't it less presumptuous to strive for an answer rather than to say it was the all-loving murderer in the sky?

Oh, Grib, don't be absurd.

You're not striving for an answer, you're saying there isn't one, period. So yes, you're being a bit presumptuous. I'm not claiming to believe in any of this stuff, simply that I'm not going to sit here and claim I KNOW it doesn't exist, because claiming you know anything about what you could never hope to prove is redundant.

[Gribble]

I disagree. There are infinite possibilities. Infinite. In order for us to accomplish anything we have to discard all but those few possibilities that come with a shred of evidence.

There is an answer. There absolutely is. Will we ever find it? I think so. Not within my lifetime, that's for sure. Not, perhaps, within the next millennium, but eventually.

I don't need to prove that something doesn't exist. That's the issue. That's what's so frustrating. Until you or someone else provides evidence I can safely state that, beyond any reasonable doubt, I know there is no god. And until someone provides me with that reasonable doubt I'll continue right along knowing. Just as you know (I hope) that I do not, in fact, have a hippo in my pocket.