The God Illusion?

[Yggdrasil]

Why do we have a real thread about something illusional?

I mean seriously... if something doesn't exist.. then why waste so much energy on proving this non-existance?

[Gribble]

Because millions of people delude themselves into believing that it does exist and it has an impact on me. That's why. I want to see us continue to progress. Hokey religions and primitive beliefs hold us back. Anything that hinders progress must be swept aside. That is the duty of any truly good human being.

[IndiReloaded]

Gribble: [url]http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/freethinker.php[/url]

I had a recent visit from the JoHo. I told him I would read his bumpf if he would take a read from the following website (I gave him the url). I invited him to come back for a discussion once he had done so.

[url]http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/intro.html[/url]

They seem to be out in force this year. Its the 4th visit we've had (mbe we've been targetted as infidels, lol). I think I'll print some info off from freethinker & have it ready to give in exchange next time.

[Gribble]

Thankfully we never get those JoHos or Mormons in my neighborhood. I think all these freshly graduated college students are too eager to tear someone a new one, so they all steer clear.

Nice links, by the way. Maybe I should call myself a Freethinker. It's easier than constantly going into my atheist/agnostic spiel.

[misombra]

proof:

one of the major laws/rules/standards of the scientific method is that science doesn't PROVE anything.

[boobaa]

proof:

one of the major laws/rules/standards of the scientific method is that science doesn't PROVE anything.

Proof of what?

[little pingoin]

For this topic, I love Douglas Adams: [url]http://www.atheists.org/Interview:__Douglas_Adams[/url]

That said, I believe in God because I want to. My faith gives me hope and makes me feel good. I don't give a rat's tush what anyone else thinks. I don't preach, and I don't listen to preachers. I don't even try to sway my daughter one way or the other. She'll make that decision for herself.

[Gribble]

Ugh. The end of that interview is so depressing. It lists all the cool things Douglas Adams was planning to do... must have been published just before he died.

Now that, unlike that druggie MJ, was a real loss.

[little pingoin]

Ugh. The end of that interview is so depressing. It lists all the cool things Douglas Adams was planning to do... must have been published just before he died.

Now that, unlike that druggie MJ, was a real loss.

Agreed. I actually cried when I read The Salmon of Doubt: Hitchhicking the Galaxy One Last Time. The world suffered a greater loss than it will probably ever appreciate when Adams passed on.

[IndiReloaded]

proof:

one of the major laws/rules/standards of the scientific method is that science doesn't PROVE anything.

That's true Miso. A lot of people don't understand this. It is logically impossible for any claim to be true no matter what.

What the Scientific Method does is allow us to make are *rational conclusions* based on available data. But, for something to be considered, "true" one must be able to at least *imagine* a *testable* scenario where the claim could be proved false. (E.g. water freezes a 4oC is a claim that can be proven false as soon as someone shows it freezes at 3oC instead.)

This is called the rule of Falsifiability.

If nothing conceivable could ever disprove a claim, then the evidence that does exist would not matter; it would be pointless to even examine the evidence, because the conclusion is already known -- the claim is invulnerable to any possible evidence.

This would not mean, however, that the claim is true; instead it would mean that the claim is meaningless. This is so because it is impossible -- logically impossible -- for any claim to be true no matter what. For every true claim, you can always conceive of evidence that would make the claim untrue -- in other words, again, every true claim is falsifiable.

So, claiming the existence of God is meaningless, just like Gribble's Pocket Hippo (which exists, but only to atheists and only when the Hippo feels like showing itself).

[IndiReloaded]

Thankfully we never get those JoHos or Mormons in my neighborhood. I think all these freshly graduated college students are too eager to tear someone a new one, so they all steer clear.

Nice links, by the way. Maybe I should call myself a Freethinker. It's easier than constantly going into my atheist/agnostic spiel.

The explanation is even simpler, Grib. College grads are generally poor. Remember, these groups aren't looking to enlighten anyone, they are looking for *paying members*. Folks in my neighbourhood would be an attractive take, I think. Can't fault them for trying, I guess. Its a double-edged sword for them these days tho, we are happy to convert a few ourselves, or at least give them mental discomfort.

[misombra]

well, god and religion are and have been for a very long time both a reason for love and forgiveness and war and hatred. so there must be something to it.

[IndiReloaded]

Many humans seem to have a need to believe in something, this seems true. But that doesn't make it right. Human's believed the world was flat for a long time, and that the sun circled the earth.

Religion has been used to justify war, slavery, sexism, racism, homophobia, mutilations, intolerance, and oppression of minorities. The totalitarianism of religious absolutes chokes progress.

Most religions have consistently resisted progress--including the abolition of slavery; women's right to vote and choose contraception and abortion; medical developments such as the use of anesthesia; scientific understanding of the heliocentric solar system and evolution, and the American principle of state/church separation.

It is my belief that religion gave hope to people at a time when they were otherwise without hope. It was *something* to believe in. I just happen to think that its usefulness in that regard has run out. As for morality, well, my above examples would show how unreliable religion is for ensuring that. In fact, all humans really require for morality is a belief in "that which does not harm others". Kindness, in other words.

[misombra]

yeah. religion is fuked up.

i've often felt guilty for growing up catholic as they've committed some serious atrocities. along with most other religions of course, that one just happened to me the one i was forced into as a child.

[Mish]

Religion's not going anywhere, it provides too much good to counter all the bad and until there is an alternative that can fill the needs that Religion fills it will always be there, get used to it peeps.