Discuss amongst yourselves

[ecojeanne]

just out of interest, gribble, has a woman ever rejected you and ended it with you?

[Gribble]

Sure. Who hasn't been rejected? I move on to the next and keep trying. Eventually I get what I want. A few girls have ended it with me. Mostly, though, I beat them to the punch.

[ecojeanne]

I beat them to the punch.

lol i had a feeling, well that's life as they say. your life, your choice.

[Gribble]

I don't see the benefit of being a common breeding animal. I think there's more to life than that. But it's hard to argue when the majority of people are nothing more than mating pairs of cattle. Most people will disagree with me. Which, in my experience, tends to mean I'm doing something right.

[ecojeanne]

just a thought...maybe it's about you being a scaredy cat....

[Mish]

And Mish? Honestly, if you've got even the slightest sense of humor and you're not terribly unattractive it is entirely possible to find a girl at a bar or a party who will go home with you. Booze works wonders that way. There's no need to lie to women. It's just too bad so few women will be your friend as well as your sex partner. Either have casual sex with a floozy or engage in a ludicrous ritual of lies, exaggerated emotions, and thinly veiled prostitution.

I suppose there are women who go for that, women in bars can be your target audience. But from what I understand they are not the girls you go for, you prefer the decent types who look for a relationship, that's where I see the problem. They are decent girls, they shouldn't be deceived.

Anyway, don't you find this whole things a bit robotic? At the end of the day you are just having sex with random women, doesn't it ever get boring? You're just repeating the same thing over and over again. It must be great for the first couple of months, maybe years, but at some stage don't you wish for something at least different? Something deeper, something more meaningful? I ask because after doing what you did for awhile it all became the same to me, all body shapes, anatomies, getting to know conversations they just started to bore me.

[Yggdrasil]

Most people will disagree with me. Which, in my experience, tends to mean I'm doing something right.

Right on. The more resistance you meet, the closer you are to the truth.

[Gribble]

Anyway, don't you find this whole things a bit robotic? At the end of the day you are just having sex with random women, doesn't it ever get boring? You're just repeating the same thing over and over again. It must be great for the first couple of months, maybe years, but at some stage don't you wish for something at least different? Something deeper, something more meaningful? I ask because after doing what you did for awhile it all became the same to me, all body shapes, anatomies, getting to know conversations they just started to bore me.

I have sex because if I go four months without it it starts to have an impact on the rest of my life. I can't function without sex every now and then. It becomes all-consuming. I slip up at work. I'm not as fun to be around when I'm with my buds. I get grouchy. I brood. Sex, as you know, eases stress. Makes you feel good. Relaxed.

I have zero interest in a deep relationship. None. If I can have sex with a girl who likes me for who I am, who doesn't expect me to call her constantly, who doesn't want me to hold her in my arms and tell her how much she means to me, great. If I can laugh and joke, if I can be relaxed, if I don't have to worry that maybe something I say will upset her, great. I'd be with that girl for as long as she'd have me.

Girls don't want that. No matter what they claim that isn't good enough. Maybe if I was a complete asshole. Maybe if I had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. For some reason, and I don't mean to toot my own horn, the women I date tend, on occasion, to like me. When that happens it goes from being fun and easy-going to serious and unpleasant. I'll turn to my buddies for companionship and I'll take sex when I need it.

[CAM]

never trust the girls

Never fall in love. Never get laid. Always masturbate.

[CAM]

I have sex because if I go four months without it it starts to have an impact on the rest of my life. I can't function without sex every now and then. It becomes all-consuming. I slip up at work. I'm not as fun to be around when I'm with my buds. I get grouchy. I brood. Sex, as you know, eases stress. Makes you feel good. Relaxed.

I have zero interest in a deep relationship. None. If I can have sex with a girl who likes me for who I am, who doesn't expect me to call her constantly, who doesn't want me to hold her in my arms and tell her how much she means to me, great. If I can laugh and joke, if I can be relaxed, if I don't have to worry that maybe something I say will upset her, great. I'd be with that girl for as long as she'd have me.

Girls don't want that. No matter what they claim that isn't good enough. Maybe if I was a complete asshole. Maybe if I had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. For some reason, and I don't mean to toot my own horn, the women I date tend, on occasion, to like me. When that happens it goes from being fun and easy-going to serious and unpleasant. I'll turn to my buddies for companionship and I'll take sex when I need it.

There is an element of truth to this--at least I sympathize with the statement above. The fact is that semen and testosterone are toxins for the intellectual and/or productive part of the male mind. Sex is the only release of those toxins--somewhat akin to emptying the holding tank on a ship...if one doesn't, then everything goes to shit...literally.

[CAM]

Right on. The more resistance you meet, the closer you are to the truth.

...or it is possible that the resistance you meet are the forward observers for a artillery unit that is going to pile drive you right into the Earth's crust....

Just stating the alternative hypothesis

[IndiReloaded]

Well, I guess life is unfair. I don't get to have a casual, fun relationship with a quality woman. Therefore I'm forced to resort to deception, leaving a quality female broken-hearted and bitter.

Wow. Forced to deception? LOL.

Makes me think of the married man who has a beautiful, intelligent wife and children, great home but chooses to cheat.

Its analogous. In both cases we have someone who is unwilling to accept the consequences of his choices. In your case, you know you don't want a steady relationship. To act consistently, you might have to be honest with potential partners and risk your chances with a certain 'class' of woman who isn't interested in casual sex. Just like the married man chooses to forego sex outside of marriage b/c of his decision to have a stable marriage and family.

Sorry Grib. I find your attitude very juvenile and self-serving. Its interesting, b/c Neo once mentioned that he is at least honest with his sexual partners about no-strings sex. He seems to have worked out a compromise (ff, sounds like) for all involved and keep his self-respect in the process.

Fortunately, there are ways for clever girls to avoid dishonest guys. Signs that will let a girl know when a guy isn't in for something longterm. But, getting back to Cam's original point, they have to be prepared to hold out for longer than dinner & a movie to find out what they need to know.

Here endeth the lecture. You're handsome, brilliant, sexy, Grib. But I would never date you except mbe as my divorce rebound clown. I'll call you, tho, don't call me.

[CAM]

Well stated, Indi. I don't retract my statement about male toxins--an inconvenient truth of the male body from age 16-39. Fortunately, I find myself in the 40's now. The testosterone is now killing hair follicles instead of brain cells.

But, in seriousness, your words are right on the mark. The fact is that I lightly played (by today's standards) when I was younger and when I met a Ms. Right who was straight-laced, I was ill-prepared and lost out. And, I went from playing to a very somber mood and complete abstinence for more than half a dozen years.

It was only until last week and meeting the woman (see Personal Development) that I finally realized that I could finally trust myself again, that was I was in charge of my own emotions when it came to women and that I could make the right choice and act on a different instinct. Nothing will ever come of that evening last week--as least, the odds are against it--but wow, what a revelation.

Indi is right. Listen to her. Don't waste your good looks and youth (so I hear) in a nihilist netherworld which is undeserving of who you likely are capable of being. Live up rather than living down.

[IndiReloaded]

Grib & Cam, don't mistake me. I am not a prude who has a problem with casual sex. I don't think its immoral or the blight of society.

For those it works for, great. Not everyone needs or wants to be married or in a LTR. Its the deceit I think is unnecessary. Especially nowadays, women & men are both far more liberated than a generation ago. It is not hard to find reasonable partners. People really do have better things to be doing & thinking about than sorting out the emotional muck from Flashman-esque antiheroes.

Its really what Mish said already:

I suppose there are women who go for that, women in bars can be your target audience. But from what I understand they are not the girls you go for, you prefer the decent types who look for a relationship, that's where I see the problem. They are decent girls, they shouldn't be deceived.

Relationships aren't zero-sum, so this callous spread of misery to another person is just very unnecessary. There are alternatives, as already mentioned. Integrity is a quality involving all aspects of a person's life. How can one lack it in one's personal relationships and expect to have in other areas (professionally, socially, financially)?

Unless one doesn't care about integrity. That's a different philosophy. Not one I share, but I do recognize its out there.