We're not all created equal

**Sanctuary** · 13-10-09, 07:01 PM

This is sort of a companion thread to my healthcare thread.

CEOs get paid millions. We can use that money to hire like 6000 minimum wage
workers or something.

But we don't because CEOs deserve what they make and 6000 minimum wage workers wouldn't be able to replace what that one guy does. And somewhere out there, people are unemployed and struggling because of this.

Sorry, but we're not all created equal. Some people are just worth more than others.

Based on what I just said - How many people think I'm a complete douchebag and how many people agree with me?

I'm just curious.

**Mish** · 13-10-09, 07:50 PM

The sad thing is some of those CEO's cause problems and then "retire" with tens of millions dollar packages. As can be seen during the global financial crises. So the real problem comes when one CEO does a small army's worth of damage to the company and the economy and then gets paid the salary of 6,000 minimum wage workers for it just to retire to a small island never to be seen again.

If we start talking about worth and who's worth more than who, then who should be a judge of deciding that? The tools we use right now to establish that are pretty worthless themselves.

**Sanctuary** · 13-10-09, 08:31 PM

Yes they retired with millions of dollars worth of compensation packages but you can be assured they also lost hundreds of millions as a result of the fiasco they may or may not have caused. The situation was a little bit more complicated than that - you can't really point the finger at any one person or even the financial industry alone.

If we start talking about worth and who's worth more than who, then who should be a judge of deciding that? The tools we use right now to establish that are pretty worthless themselves.

The market should decide that.

**Lipp** · 13-10-09, 08:38 PM

6000 minimum wage workers wouldn't be able to replace what that one guy does.

Could a CEO do what 6000 minimum wage workers do?

**Sanctuary** · 13-10-09, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Lipp

Could a CEO do what 6000 minimum wage workers do?

No, but I believe leading a company's direction has a higher value than 6000 people mopping floors.

**NeoSeminole** · 14-10-09, 12:30 AM

your title is misleading. I thought this thread would be about how some people are innately better than others.

**Gigabitch** · 14-10-09, 01:14 AM

I think you're a douchebag and I still agree with you.

Just kidding. I actually like you, Sanctuary. I do agree that some people should be paid more. 1000% more? probably not. Bonuses in excess of the total amount of money I will make in my entire lifetime? No, I don't think so.

Am I worth more than an entry level unskilled worker? Absolutely. I generate more revenue.

**Graham Berkeley** · 14-10-09, 01:27 AM

Everyone is born equal as a human being. Sure not everyone is born in America and may have to suffer through life in a 3rd world country but nature lets us out the starting gates with a brain, two legs, two arms and posable thumbs. At that point is up to us as individuals to make something out of it all. People who can, deserve to be paid what they are worth and NO government has any right to punish them for being successful and "re-distribute their wealth" to those who can't figure out what to do with their thumbs...

**MVPlaya** · 14-10-09, 01:48 AM

Sanctuary, the issue is not whether we agree with you but to what degree do we agree with you. I think every person in this country agrees in wage differentiation (different pay for different people), but there is a degree to which wage often differs that is no longer reflective of ability or skill and has negative consequences from a policy perspective.

Firstly, CEO compensation packages frequently increase during economic downturn. Often times when CEO's who do miserable jobs leave their companies, the board votes in a large severance package for them that is: 1) not even market-required in any way, and 2) in sums of $100 million dollars. The reason the boards vote these kind of packages in is because they know that by setting the benchmark higher, all other retirees will be expected to have larger compensation packages.

So a company that is headed for bankruptcy pays out several hundred millions in compensation packages because the board of directors all want to get as much money out of the firm before it goes bankrupt.

CEO pay in America is not reflective of talent or contribution, its reflective of expectations. People expect CEO's to get paid highly, so they do, even though they've rarely earned it.

See:

Article: Money for Nothing, Paul Krugman, NYT
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/opinion/27krugman.html[/url]

Article: Comparison Shopping: The real reason executive compensation got out of hand, Slate
[url]http://www.slate.com/id/2218091/pagenum/2[/url]

Everyone agrees CEO's deserve good pay, its just that the pay differences are not reflective of what CEO's contribute as much as they are reflective of the disparate bargaining power a CEO has compared to a wage worker in the same company.

**Gigabitch** · 14-10-09, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Graham Berkeley

Everyone is born equal as a human being.

In a perfect world, maybe. Some are born with a much higher level of innate intelligence and physical attractiveness that will give them a distinct advantage over the others. Is it fair? Is it nice? No, but it's true.

**Lipp** · 14-10-09, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by Sanctuary

No, but I believe leading a company's direction has a higher value than 6000 people mopping floors.

Increased revenue for a single company wouldn't be worth much if the streets were covered in a meter's depth of filth and garbage.

**Junket** · 14-10-09, 04:54 AM

I'm not sure what you're even trying to get at.

**MVPlaya** · 14-10-09, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lipp

Increased revenue for a single company wouldn't be worth much if the streets were covered in a meter's depth of filth and garbage.

Originally Posted by Frasbee

I'm not sure what you're even trying to get at.

He's saying you have to analyze the social costs.

**Junket** · 14-10-09, 05:05 AM

No, I meant the OP.

I feel like he's trying to take a point out of context.

**Lipp** · 14-10-09, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by Gigabitch

In a perfect world, maybe. Some are born with a much higher level of innate intelligence and physical attractiveness that will give them a distinct advantage over the others. Is it fair? Is it nice? No, but it's true.

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”
-Calvin Coolidge, 30th president.

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