Ladies whats your opinion on foreskin?

[dewilliams2]

Jesus Christ people....some people have a foreskin and some don't...sometimes I feel like a nut and sometimes I don't....who gives a ****...ya have what you have....I'm gonna go enjoy my penis without the foreskin while you guys are busy bitchin and missin out on quality peter time.

[doppelgaenger]

And I'm going to nonsurgically restore my foreskin

[Petit Papillon]

And I didn't touch the foreskin yesterday... I fell asleep

[SirWagginston]

Don't be silly. No one is defending a tradition for the sake of tradition. Nowhere did I say that everyone SHOULD be circumcised. I merely pointed out the health benefits that DO exist. I have stated (and ALWAYS state) that an uncirc'd man should NOT have it done, and I fully support people who choose not to. That doesn't mean I have to pretend there are absolutely no health benefits (despite medical evidence to the contrary), or pretend that the biased crap lilwang posts is meaningful, nor do I think it is a great idea to encourage his neuroses.

Anyway, I'm done with this boring old argument. We've had it many times before.

Who said I was talking about you?

[lahnnabell]

so, Lahnnabell, if I may use you in my example.. I'm sure you'd agree that if someone had removed your clitoral hood without your permission, you would consider this a violation of your human rights? And yes I agree, as dono pointed out, on a personal level there'd be nothing you could do but try to get over it and move on. You might not even think of it that often in everyday life- but you'd still be against repeating the practice on someone else; I'm pretty sure Lahnnabell would agree with what I'm getting at here.

I am unsure if I would consider it a violation of my human rights. I suppose if I did have a huge problem with it I might do what was within my power to educate others about why it can be a negative experience vs. a positive one. It really depends on how I was nurtured growing up as well. Dopp's own mother didn't do the best job explaining the situation to him. She felt that he would be satisfied with the fact that he was "normal" like his dad, when, in fact, Dopp had a much more perceptive brain than his mother gave him credit for.

Let me further put words in your mouth, Lahnnabell, and guess that even if we hypothetically allow that this procedure reduced your risk of catching STDs, you still might consider it too high a price to pay since you can just use condoms instead-- or at the very least, you still would want to make the choice for yourself, so even giving it the benefit of the doubt at every turn, you'd still be against the practice of doing it to baby girls who cannot give that consent.

I think that proper sex education should suffice. I would like to know how much of the risk of STDs and HIV is decreased with the removal of the foreskin. I doubt those numbers are very significant.

Well, for arguments sake, if this did happen to you Lahnna, Vashti would have no empathy for you, nor would she acknowledge that your rights were violated, nor would she see anything wrong with repeating the same ritual on other baby girls.
(After all, that is her view of male circumcision --> foreskin equals hood --> thus circumcision equals clitoral hood removal --> equals your hypothetical situation)

Vash has made her opinion on this matter quite clear. I am not offended by her opinion, or Dopp's. They both have their own reasons for thinking as they do. Dopp's is based out of a direct personal experience, and Vash's on her high level of education in her field.

[Tiay]

Thanks for clarifying that! I know I was totally just putting words in your mouth as an example, so it's nice to hear your own views on it. I really hope you didn't mind too much.

[lahnnabell]

Not at all! I appreciate you breaking it down into sections too. I can't stand to read walls of text. This particular thread has increased my understanding and open-mindedness that much more

[SirWagginston]

awwwwwwwwwwww

[Gigabitch]

I love a group hug.

[Junket]

Not at all! I appreciate you breaking it down into sections too. I can't stand to read walls of text. This particular thread has increased my understanding and open-mindedness that much more

But my posts on rewarding behavior with sex didn't?!

[shine aji]

I been with a both a circumsed and uncircumsiced, I dont think there is much difference if he knows what his doing and you both know how to have fun. I think i kinda learn more towards having the skin on.. lol

[doppelgaenger]

Don't be silly. No one is defending a tradition for the sake of tradition. Nowhere did I say that everyone SHOULD be circumcised. I merely pointed out the health benefits that DO exist. I have stated (and ALWAYS state) that an uncirc'd man should NOT have it done, and I fully support people who choose not to. That doesn't mean I have to pretend there are absolutely no health benefits (despite medical evidence to the contrary), or pretend that the biased crap lilwang posts is meaningful, nor do I think it is a great idea to encourage his neuroses.

Anyway, I'm done with this boring old argument. We've had it many times before.

I think we need to be careful about defining what health benefits are. Removing the foreskin, the most sensitive piece of skin on the male body, for an insignificant decrease in risk of STDs, according to a bunch of nonsensical, controversial statistic research is not really a health benefit. That's like medication with side effects that are much worse than the original diagnosis. It's not beneficial, but unpractical! There are more feasible solutions to the issue that you believe circumcision attempts to resolve.

You're not really providing a good argument here, Vashti. You're trying to disprove the points that others and I have made by disregarding them with your personal experience as a nurse, instead of providing credible sources. You're calling bullshit on my sources and accusing them of having bias without having any counter arguments or sources.

You are getting bored of the debate because no progress is being made here. You think you're right and you're stuck in your own conviction. You cannot acknowledge the facts that have been brought forth. You do not care to argue your own points. If you're sick of arguing, why do you come back for more? Obviously you're not willing to contribute to the debate.

I am unsure if I would consider it a violation of my human rights.

Really? So if your clitoris became dried and insensitive as a result of your circumcision and you lost a lot of sexual stimulation as a result, affecting your ability to achieve an orgasm, possibly even making arousal painful, you might not consider this a violation of your human rights?

[SirWagginston]

You are being a little unreasonable, doppelgaengar. The decrease in risk of being infected with an STD is small, but not insignificant. The catch is, with or without circumcision, the risk of infection is great enough that you should simply not have sex with infected people.

[Petit Papillon]

I wouldn't have unprotected sex with a person with STD. With or without foreskin. I wouldn't be stupid enough to agree to have sex with such person "just because he doesn't have foreskin". Like really... It is insignificant. There is still high risk of getting STD so I don't give a crap. Circumcised penis is not penis with a condom on. What a bs for real lol

EDit: it's pretty what you said SW, just I think it IS insignificant, I see no reason to cut foreskin because of this reason. next please

[Tiay]

I think Lahnna is entitled to her opinion.
And also, it's such a difficult hypothetical situation to imagine that it's very hard to know what one would even think of it. I'm sure I would feel that it was a violation of my human rights. But that's assuming that I know what I know- if I was told by doctors that it was perfectly healthy and it was the norm and guys "preferred" cut girls and all this kinda thing... heck who know how I might feel about it. the situation has too many variables.

But, that's not really the point.
to use an extreme example, murder is illegal, even if the victim welcomes it because they are suicidal
for a surgeon to cut the tip of the pinky finger off a baby is, I would imagine, illegal (unless it was a life-saving thing for some reason), so the foreskin should be off limits too.