Strange Territory

[HappyPuffin]

So. I'm homosexual, and this summer I met a really great guy online, though he lives rather far away.

It seemed like kismet, as I have some rather narrow requirements that I wasn't sure I'd ever find in a guy (and was rather happily resigned to that), and yet he sort of just falls into my lap; we first met in a context totally non-related to dating or anything, he just contacted me through a forum not even knowing I was homosexual too.

This summer for like 3 months we talked, like, 6 hours a day usually. It's slowed down to more like...1 on average now (and is more like every other day than daily) because of work and school starting after the summer, but we're still good friends (especially for people who've only known each other less than 5 months now). I've pretty much always let him initiate the instant messaging or the contact or whatever because I dont want to seem obnoxious or clingy or anything.

I fell in love almost instantly, and told him this about a month or two after we met. He was okay with it, but said it was too fast a development for him and that he needed more clarity; he himself is in a weird place emotionally too, I think he's still getting over a relationship from a year ago now, etc. I expressed some desire to just cuddle with him during all that disclosure, and he was like, "Well, I suppose even just friends can cuddle..." I didn't mention any of it again, but he seemed to still really like prolonged conversations with me and, if anything, became more persistent that I come visit him (something he had first suggested only after a week or two of talking).

So, just around our 3-month friend-aversary, I did visit him, for a 5-day stay at his place. For me, in love of course, it was amazing. He was great; flirty, gave me hugs, sort of leaned on me on the couch during movies, etc. I, however, was rather awkward. My mind went blank or was distracted with things I didnt feel I could say outloud and so probably seemed really shy, quiet, awkward (though booze helped, lol). I also felt like the ball was in his court at that point in terms of initiating anything; he knew how I felt, so he'd make the leap if comfortable (even if he usually seems to play the role of beloved rather than the lover). He was a very gracious host though, and we were having such a good time I even ended up staying an extra day. And good thing too; he did end up initiating even some full-bodied shirtless cuddling!

But, he never tried to kiss me or anything, and never tried to "close the deal" about a relationship or anything. So a week or so after I get back, I do ask him again whether he could see himself ever attracted to me...and he says he doesn't envision a romantic relationship, but then qualified that statement with a bunch of stuff about his own confusion right now about emotions, his own emotional state, and about his history (that I knew of previously) of falling in love with people only AFTER they have been persistent in loving him (sadly for him, he often falls in love only after it's too late, after the other person has already moved on). He apologized for anything that may have seemed like leading me along on the trip (admitting that he was exploring his own feelings for me at the time; which must mean there were/are SOME seeds of interest, yes?) and that "you never know" how his feelings might develop over time because he tends to be fickle (until he actually/finally does fall in love, and then he becomes hopelessly devoted). He also sort of refused to say he wasn't physically attracted to me, even when I sort of begged him to do so (if it was something I could have no hope would change...it would be easier, I thought), saying merely that "well, you're not my usual type, it's not the same sort of attraction as I was with my ex" which isn't exactly an "im not attracted to you at all" either...in fact it implies there IS some "sort" of attraction. In fact, he said that if all I wanted was a short fling of a hook-up or something, he would definitely have been interested, but he doesn't want to ruin the friendship, break my heart, and he isn't ready for commitments again right now and is considering lots of possibilities in his life, especially the long distance thing is hard.

Well, I went into a major heartbreak grief for like 2 or3 weeks, having all sorts of jealous thoughts about him with other guys and feeling awful. But through all this, I did keep talking to him, trying to put on a strong face (though occasionally probably seeming rather pathetic by disclosing my inability to sleep, my nausea, my racing heartbeat, etc).

Then we entered into some strange territory. I told him I wasnt giving up on him, and asked him if I could start telling him I loved him before signing off each night (he wouldnt have to respond in kind). He was okay with this, and actually seems to take a lot of comfort in hearing it. I sent him a love poem and a drawing I made of him, and he seemed genuinely impressed/flattered. What's more, though, the dynamic between us has changed (for the better, I now think). Since I have nothing to lose now, have already been heartbroken (and so am immune from it happening again, for now), and am more cynical about him in some ways (it all sort of brought him out of the clouds in my mind and down to earth, though I still love him deeply)...I've gotten a lot more flirty. I would never flirt before this, was very reserved, very shy about my feelings, tried to keep it all restrained. Now, I've become quite the (dirty even) little flirt with him, and he seems to respond positively, flirt back, etc. We had a great skype session one night where he even stripped down to his boxers at my prodding, etc

So now...I don't really know where we are. We still are friends and have unrelated conversations, but my feelings are constantly out on the table. Iin some ways, I suppose, this is my defense against ever developing false hope again, only to have to ask him again whether any feelings have developed every few months, only to possibly be shot down again. If it's always out there and part of the dynamic between us, then the ball is always in his court if he does ever feel inclined to make a move.

Nevertheless...I don't really know where we are or what hope exists. He's letting me openly attempt to court/woo/pursue him, so...??? I love the status quo we have now, frankly; I don't particularly need reciprocation of feelings if I'm allowed to express my love (and receive physical affection every so often). And we're great friends! Which in some ways is more stable and lasting than many more casual relationships; I never have to worry about "losing him" completely. The only thing wrong with it, of course, is sustainability; if he gets in another relationship, I know I'll have to pull back and tone it down for the duration, and probably feel a lot of jealousy.

Now, before you tell me, trust me, I know; he's sort of a tease, may be stringing me along (either for future consideration or just for fun), is sort of weak/passive when it comes to being pressured into giving romantic/erotic favors, likes attention, etc etc

What's more, he's now (already) proposed another trip for me to come see him, probably late October or early November. I know the dynamic will be different this time, especially if I flirtily "warn" him beforehand that I'm going to go from quiet-awkward to frisky-awkward. I have little doubt that with a little more boldness/agressiveness on this trip...I could almost certainly prod him (he seems to like to be flirtily nagged or pressured into these things; so that he doesnt have to take agency for it?) into all manner of physical affection. I think, knowing us and our dynamic now, I will be very flirty, freely physical with him (in private) and probably could get anything I wanted (though I'm not intending anything sexual until there's a firm commitment). I fully intend (and I think it's doable) to spend a lot of time cuddling with him, a lot of time casually nude, to sleep in his bed with him, etc. To have a romp, and I'm almost certain he'll go along with it (if the dynamic we have now, on skype, etc, is any indication).

At least I'll have a hurrah. At worst, it will be a last hurrah and the friendship will chill after that or he'll pull-back and ask to limit the flirtatiousness. At best, maybe it will make a more enticing second impression and will melt him or push him over the edge into loving me. Or I'd be open to discussing with him some sort of more casual non-exclusive relationship for now while he's still figuring things out.

I just don't know. What sort of territory is this? It's not FWB, really, it's more of the opposite as in some ways we're sharing all the emotional/romantic things every so often (while he remains unattached) but NOT the sex. And yet, there is a sexual attraction on my side (and a stated willingness on his side if that were all I wanted).

So...what do you think? What is this? Will being more playfully (but rather intensely) physically affection on this next trip (assuming he is an active participant and not just an awkward passive recipient) help things possibly? Can people engage in that sort of tenderness without increasing their attraction or positive feelings or falling for the other?

[Only-virgins]

This thread is so gay.

[MerryH]

Do you really want to be the type of person who has to pressure someone to engage in physical affection? I mean, yeah, he'll probably go along with it for whatever reason, but is that really how you want it to be?

He already said he doesn't want a relationship with you, but sure, he'd sleep with you. That's probably why he's not shutting you down completely. If you're cool with just being friends with benefits, go right ahead. And if he finally does let you "push him into it", don't make the mistake of thinking it means more. He's been pretty clear about what he doesn't want.

[Chlorine]

I just don't know. What sort of territory is this? ......
So...what do you think? What is this? Will being more playfully (but rather intensely) physically affection on this next trip (assuming he is an active participant and not just an awkward passive recipient) help things possibly? Can people engage in that sort of tenderness without increasing their attraction or positive feelings or falling for the other?

HappyPuffin-----You've poured your heart out into that post. After reading it, and in answer to your question about what sort of territory you are in, well I have this mental picture of you busy in the hot sun, sweating beads of blood and tears, shovelling mountains of earth in the trenches. He on the other hand, is sitting on top of that heap of earth, watching you shovel. And while your busy digging yourself deeper into the mud, how do you know he hasn't sneaked off to have a ciggie with someone else? You're separated by distance.....

[HappyPuffin]

I know what you mean MerryH. I suppose this is as much about what I really want (or, rather, what sort of "consolation prize" I'm willing to accept for now) as it is about him.

I am fine being friends with some benefits, but (as I described) not the sexual ones outside a commitment. If he's willing to go along with this sort of "cuddle buddies" thing for now, I'm fine with that.

My question was really more directed at the question of strategy. If I do still hold out hope that he could develop feelings down the line (and I do), then which is the better "strategy" to win him in the end?

Should I distance myself, act like I've lost interest, and make him feel like I've moved on? As I said, that's gotten him in the past with people. He seems like the type who, as long as he knows something is available to him...doesn't feel the need to commit (why should he if you're wrapped around his finger anyway?). But when he is threatened with having it taken away, THEN he starts to miss it and gets emotionally attached (a "you don't know what you've got till it's gone" sort of dynamic?)

Or, is it better to pursue this sort of cuddle buddy, flirty, open pursuit in the hopes that the affection itself (through the release of oxytocin or whatever, if you want to get scientific) will win him over or that I will become his best option just by default, just by sort of sidling into that role? (You know, like, "Hmm, I need a date for this wedding. I know, I'll call HappyPuffin!") He is rather lazy in that regard too, and if I'm the path of least resistance...well, he has been inclined to just "settle" in the past.